Post-Game Talk: Habs lose to Skinner

[JoelWarlord]

Thank you, when I say that, people get pissed but this is a fact. Suzuki is going to be paid like a 1C, but not playing like one.

This is a dead horse by now but I really just can not understand why people are freaking out so much about Suzuki being on track to have the 23rd highest salary among centres next season and have that number drop into the 30s within a season or two. I genuinely just do not understand why fans should care or be upset that Suzuki will be making a salary in the mid 20s at his position for a season or two before he ends up in the 35+ rank as a ton of players get new contracts and pass him.

The team sucks, the team will suck for at least another couple years, the team saved money in the long term by giving term to a 23 year old player to lock up his entire age 23-30 prime. Why are we freaking out about the fact he's making "1C money" and not playing like a 1C when the contract hasn't even started yet. It's the cap percentage equivalent of if Plekanec made 5.75M instead of 5M. Who cares.

 

[covfefe]

I know Gretzky’s name always gets tossed around as proof positive that everyone can be traded but that was such an era specific deal permitted by a complicit NHL commissioner who came to the aid of an insolvent Nelson Skalbania who struggled mightily with his Gainers business at the time.

It was mostly a large cash deal for a reason, to help Skalbania. Gretzky would never had been traded but for the cash component and of course, there was no salary cap back then and the rules governing trade approvals had far less strings.

I agree, absolutes are not reality. It’s just that in the situation we’re in with no bona fide first line, no bona fide first pairing Ds, I find it difficult to believe that we’d have untouchables if there were any deal that helped us fill those spots.

Not saying we should go out and trade everyone, but what if the right offer came along?

I'm onboard with trading anyone for the right price, although my general feeling is that we'll be selling low on some guys. With the understanding of that just being how things go when you have a regime change.

We've got Mr Clean on the job, and we're sure to have some moves to talk about in a few weeks' time.

meanwhile MB is sipping a wheatgrass smoothie while hitting on some 25 yo waitress in LA, the universe has come full circle

 

[RationalExpectations]

This is a dead horse by now but I really just can not understand why people are freaking out so much about Suzuki being on track to have the 23rd highest salary among centres next season and have that number drop into the 30s within a season or two. I genuinely just do not understand why fans should care or be upset that Suzuki will be making a salary in the mid 20s at his position for a season or two before he ends up in the 35+ rank as a ton of players get new contracts and pass him.

The team sucks, the team will suck for at least another couple years, the team saved money in the long term by giving term to a 23 year old player to lock up his entire age 23-30 prime. Why are we freaking out about the fact he's making "1C money" and not playing like a 1C when the contract hasn't even started yet. It's the cap percentage equivalent of if Plekanec made 5.75M instead of 5M. Who cares.

You care because this is going to drag numbers up for potential players in the future (see Marner in TOR)

 

[covfefe]

You care because this is going to drag numbers up for potential players in the future (see Marner in TOR)

Watching the game today, looking at our roster - that sounds like a good problem to have

 

[JoelWarlord]

You care because this is going to drag numbers up for potential players in the future (see Marner in TOR)

I don't really see this as a problem here. If we manage to land a true franchise-level talent their comparable are going to be players on other teams anyway, otherwise if Suzuki is anchoring the salary structure as a 1C at 7.8 and it means a high-end first line forward is in the ~9M neighbourhood three years from now that's not really a problem. The only real way the contract could inflate another player's salary is if Caufield absolutely goes off next year and has a dominant high end goal scoring season, which is a very very good problem to have.

Again, he is paid the 23rd highest salary among Cs and will drop into the mid 30s within 3 years which is the earliest possible time we'd be looking at an extension for a truly high end player (if the 2022 pick hits). I have a hard time believing that Suzuki making the ~35th highest salary at his position is going to be a legitimate problem in terms of what Wright/Cooley/Nemec etc can ask for, given I think somewhere in the 20-35 range is where I think Suzuki ends up ranking among C's. If we end up having someone who's demonstrably better than Suzuki is I don't have an issue paying them more.

 

[RationalExpectations]

I don't really see this as a problem here. If we manage to land a true franchise-level talent their comparable are going to be players on other teams anyway, otherwise if Suzuki is anchoring the salary structure as a 1C at 7.8 and it means a high-end first line forward is in the ~9M neighbourhood three years from now that's not really a problem. The only real way the contract could inflate another player's salary is if Caufield absolutely goes off next year and has a dominant high end goal scoring season, which is a very very good problem to have.

Again, he is paid the 23rd highest salary among Cs and will drop into the mid 30s within 3 years which is the earliest possible time we'd be looking at an extension for a truly high end player (if the 2022 pick hits). I have a hard time believing that Suzuki making the ~35th highest salary at his position is going to be a legitimate problem in terms of what Wright/Cooley/Nemec etc can ask for, given I think somewhere in the 20-35 range is where I think Suzuki ends up ranking among C's. If we end up having someone who's demonstrably better than Suzuki is I don't have an issue paying them more.

Just saying he is paid more than Mackinnon ( 9.5% of cap vs 8.4% at the time), I don't think the Avs manage to sign Landeskog to less than 8m if Mac does not have that contract. BOS does not sign Marchand and Pastrnak to those contracts if Bergeron is not paid less than 7... I think paying Suzuki that much in the long run will be a problem but let us see. Despite being on a crappy team, he is not shining by any means, he is not showing elite talent. Elite players score and shine even when their teams lose.

 

[Kriss E]

Usually the effect is more pronounced.
0-3 6GF 12GA
Against meh opposition.

If you are pleased with the results, good for you. Color me unimpressed.

Don't expect to be impressed by this team, have you seen the roster?
What I am seeing is a team that is way more combative, which is what they discussed when making the coaching change.
This team isn't going to start popping wins and goals mate.

 

[NMacrules]

Teams can only drop 2 places now not 3.

So 1, 2 and 3.

 

[rbmacleod]

But he won trades!

Yeah Sergachev for Drouin was not good trade

 

[BLONG7]

The only problem being Columbus was #23 in the league and Buffalo was #30 before winning today.
Can't say we played good teams. But offensively they look less lost.

We have been a bottom feeder now, for the past 6 years.......we have to start somewhere.

 

[Tyson]

I hope Andrew Hammond comes in and provides some semblance of stability in goal.

It is disheartening to watch multiple soft goals per game.

 

[durojean]

They couldn’t score with Bergevin in 10 years He didn’t get a number 1 Center in 10 years This is all on Bergevin This disaster was inevitable

When I think of the job Bergevin did I'm nothing else but mad.

If you put into perspective that it's been 4 year of a losing streak were we can't really make the playoffs. We had a lot of OK asset like Tatar, Danault that we lost for absolutely nothing. We decided to go all in in a year where it was not a real season ( only canadian teams ). And we made the season with a lot of chances and things going our way. I'm pretty sure we would not have made it in a real season.

We are in year 5 of Bergevin reset and the team as never been this bad. When I think about it, it makes me puke.

 

[TomKosto]

Thank you, when I say that, people get pissed but this is a fact. Suzuki is going to be paid like a 1C, but not playing like one. Also Caufield cannot defend.

finally, everybody is after Petry right now but if you look at the game, he was often alone because Kulak was joining the rush too early.

Suzuki is our golden kid, so people tend to give him a pass. He should be our best player nights in and out but he’s not.I remember what Cooper told him during the handshake, to keep working extremly hard and he would be one of the best in the league. Maybe he took it too easy this year and this will be a reality check for him. I know we have a shitty team but a guy like Romanov took some strides this year, not Suzu.

 

[Redux91]

Face offs last night

Suzuki 11 wins 6 losses, pretty good
Poehling 4 wins 7 losses, room for improvement
Evan's 5 wins 4 losses, good for bottom C duties
Byron 9 wins 1 loss lol where the hell did that come from

 

[JoelWarlord]

Just saying he is paid more than Mackinnon ( 9.5% of cap vs 8.4% at the time), I don't think the Avs manage to sign Landeskog to less than 8m if Mac does not have that contract. BOS does not sign Marchand and Pastrnak to those contracts if Bergeron is not paid less than 7

The Bruins just paid McAvoy 9.5 and Pastrnak's new contract will start with a 9 as well. Marchand is a pretty big anomaly, but I don't know if we can just characterize that as the result of Bergeron's salary given McAvoy has just blown past it.

he is not showing elite talent. Elite players score and shine even when their teams lose.

Yes, which is why his extension doesn't pay him elite money. Again, we are talking about the 23rd highest salary among centres which will drop into the 30s rapidly as players currently on bridge deals and players nearing the end of long-term extensions will get new contracts and pass him.

7.8M is not elite player money under an 81.5M cap. Kevin Hayes costs 7.1M in UFA now. It would be nice if he could produce at an elite level, but he's not an elite player nor is he paid like one so it isn't a huge issue to me that his production has slowed down playing on the last-place team in the league. He's an adequate option at 1C and a great option as a 2C and he's paid commensurate with that role. I've said this before but I don't know why people are mad that he isn't as good as Bergeron when the actual comp is Krejci, Suzuki is paid like Krejci and projects like Krejci, and that's still an extremely important player on a contending team.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Thank you, when I say that, people get pissed but this is a fact. Suzuki is going to be paid like a 1C, but not playing like one. Also Caufield cannot defend.

finally, everybody is after Petry right now but if you look at the game, he was often alone because Kulak was joining the rush too early.

He’s playing with like a 5000 lb anchor tied to him what do you expect

 

[RationalExpectations]

Yes, which is why his extension doesn't pay him elite money. Again, we are talking about the 23rd highest salary among centres which will drop into the 30s rapidly as players currently on bridge deals and players nearing the end of long-term extensions will get new contracts and pass him.

7.8M is not elite player money under an 81.5M cap. Kevin Hayes costs 7.1M in UFA now. It would be nice if he could produce at an elite level, but he's not an elite player nor is he paid like one so it isn't a huge issue to me that his production has slowed down playing on the last-place team in the league. He's an adequate option at 1C and a great option as a 2C and he's paid commensurate with that role. I've said this before but I don't know why people are mad that he isn't as good as Bergeron when the actual comp is Krejci, Suzuki is paid like Krejci and projects like Krejci, and that's still an extremely important player on a contending team.

Mackinnon was paid 8.4% cap, Suzuki will be at 9.5%. Bergeron 10%, Scheifele 8.4% too, Barkov 8.1%. I think MTL overpaid because of losing KK.

 

[admiralcadillac]

Mackinnon was paid 8.4% cap, Suzuki will be at 9.5%. Bergeron 10%, Scheifele 8.4% too, Barkov 8.1%. I think MTL overpaid because of losing KK.

Barkov is on his last year isn't he? Barkov is getting paid 10M next year how are you measuring Suzuki having a higher percentage of the cap?

 

[RationalExpectations]

Barkov is on his last year isn't he?

Yes and ?

 

[JoelWarlord]

Mackinnon was paid 8.4% cap, Suzuki will be at 9.5%. Bergeron 10%, Scheifele 8.4% too, Barkov 8.1%. I think MTL overpaid because of losing KK.

Barkov signed a shorter term deal and MacKinnon was younger and not anything close to what he's devleoped into at the time he signed. They're not really good comparables. Scheifele sure, OK, we're paying him more than the Jets paid Scheifele, it is what it is. I'm not going to get upset about a fair price because another team got a bargain 6 years ago. I'm not calling it a huge steal or something but we got 8 years at a very good price and that's highly valuable, you can not detach the AAV from the term, the entire point of the term is so that the AAV is higher year 1-4 and lower year 5-8, I would make that trade-off every day of the week with Suzuki's age and where the team is at right now. He's making Krejci money to be our Krejci someday, why are we upset that our Krejci type who's paid like Krejci isn't performing like Barkov?

We can do this game all day of picking out other contracts, ultimately what matters is again, this will be the 23rd highest salary at the position starting next year, and will rapidly drop to the 30s within a year or two. If you think that's an overpay for Suzuki I guess you're just considerably lower on the player than I am, because I think he pretty comfortably will rank in the 20-40 range among Cs from year to year with up and down years included in that range.

Do you believe he projects as worse than the #35-40 center in the league? Because that's where the contract will end up within 2 or 3 years. If you believe that then sure, agree to disagree because I don't think that's a likely projection, but if you do it makes more sense to be critical of the contract. Because otherwise I really can't understand why people who think Suzuki is a mediocre 1C and a great 2C would be upset about a contract that locks him in for 8 years on a figure that starts out as mediocre 1C money and becomes great 2C money within a couple years.

 

[admiralcadillac]

Yes and ?

.....and that means they are not on comparable deals doesn't it?

 

[RationalExpectations]

.....and that means they are not on comparable deals doesn't it?

The cap hits are as % of cap at time of signing

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Caufield - Suzuki - Toffoli line hasnt worked this year. With Toff now traded, I hope they put Anderson on that line

 

[WhoozYerrDaddy]

That's not completely accurate. Should be a red light behind Primeau, not a green one.