Pre-Game Talk: Habs @ Leafs - tonight at 7

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Toene

Y'en aura pas de facile
Nov 17, 2014
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I rather have a winning team and the pursuit of a winning tradition than sticking on political views of what our team reprensent to us.

I rather enjoy myself watching my childhood team winning than discussing the fact that we have quebeckers or not wearing the jersey.
How is it political? It's purely cultural. French identity is indissociable from the Canadiens franchise. It's been that way since 112 years. In that span, 24 cups, dozens of HOFers, the best hockey franchise in history. We could not ice a team for a few decades and nobody would catch up.

The day the team turns its back on its French heritage is the day it becomes utterly soulless. May as well be the Montreal Blue Jackets. Being a bilingual franchise is a strength, not a weakness.

I don't have rigid criterias about it though. I don't care if it's the coach, the GM, players that are French. All I care is that it maintains the identity in some aspects. If you have some players that are French, but the coach isn't, it's fine, and vice-versa. But to have all the org be unilingual would mean it's not the Canadiens, to me at least. I can see why anglo fans don't understand this, I don't blame you, it's not part of your culture.
 

Lafleurs Guy

Guuuuuuuy!
Jul 20, 2007
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He's apparently injured.
Okay. I guess he's next up then. Non-story.
How is it political? It's purely cultural. French identity is indissociable from the Canadiens franchise. It's been that way since 112 years. In that span, 24 cups, dozens of HOFers, the best hockey franchise in history. We could not ice a team for a few decades and nobody would catch up.

The day the team turns its back on its French heritage is the day it becomes utterly soulless. May as well be the Montreal Blue Jackets. Being a bilingual franchise is a strength, not a weakness.

I don't have rigid criterias about it though. I don't care if it's the coach, the GM, players that are French. All I care is that it maintains the identity in some aspects. If you have some players that are French, but the coach isn't, it's fine, and vice-versa. But to have all the org be unilingual would mean it's not the Canadiens, to me at least. I can see why anglo fans don't understand this, I don't blame you, it's not part of your culture.
It's fine. They should try to maintain some French presence. I don't think there should be a hard rule about the GM being French or the coach being French but I get having French presence in the org and it absolutely makes sense to have French players in the lineup.

Bringing in a guy just to maintain a streak though is an empty gesture. It's like Gordie Howe suiting up for a game at 70 years old so he can say he played every decade or something like that...

I hadn't realized Poehling was hurt. If Belzile is the next best guy then sure...
 
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WeThreeKings

Habs cup - its in the BAG
Sep 19, 2006
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Are you implying Michael Frolik has been useful?

He's been a completely non event but he's still an established NHL veteran. Then there's Weal who is the best player down in Laval and has extensive experience playing with the guys on this roster. You could do 7 D again which they've done. Or rewarded Vejdemo and Ylonen for their play by giving them a look

This is an empty gesture and its so transparent. But I mean, if you guys wanna defend it or try to explain it as anything other than what it is and feel some sense of pride the streak is still together because Alex Belzile is suiting up for the Canadiens, go for it. I'll never understand it.
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
50,668
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He's been a completely non event but he's still an established NHL veteran. Then there's Weal who is the best player down in Laval and has extensive experience playing with the guys on this roster. You could do 7 D again which they've done. Or rewarded Vejdemo and Ylonen for their play by giving them a look

This is an empty gesture and its so transparent. But I mean, if you guys wanna defend it or try to explain it as anything other than what it is and feel some sense of pride the streak is still together because Alex Belzile is suiting up for the Canadiens, go for it. I'll never understand it.

... Eric Staal is also an established veteran. Doesn't mean he should be in the lineup. But he is.
 
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Toene

Y'en aura pas de facile
Nov 17, 2014
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French or not, RHP is the guy I wouldve wanted to see called up. He plays the game a bit like Gallagher and would fit in our style of play.
 
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Perrah

Registered User
Jul 2, 2009
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How is it political? It's purely cultural. French identity is indissociable from the Canadiens franchise. It's been that way since 112 years. In that span, 24 cups, dozens of HOFers, the best hockey franchise in history. We could not ice a team for a few decades and nobody would catch up.

The day the team turns its back on its French heritage is the day it becomes utterly soulless. May as well be the Montreal Blue Jackets. Being a bilingual franchise is a strength, not a weakness.

I don't have rigid criterias about it though. I don't care if it's the coach, the GM, players that are French. All I care is that it maintains the identity in some aspects. If you have some players that are French, but the coach isn't, it's fine, and vice-versa. But to have all the org be unilingual would mean it's not the Canadiens, to me at least. I can see why anglo fans don't understand this, I don't blame you, it's not part of your culture.

So one game without a Quebec born player in the line up and all of that changes?
 

psychonaut

Registered User
Sep 4, 2003
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There was never an issue in the front office or the coaching staff. We had enough French Stars/Superstars to provide a constant flow of media in that language. We also had people like Claude Ruel during Scotty's tenure who could deal with the press. Also our long term players for the most part had no aversion to learning french and tried to speak it despite their accents. But the most important thing is we had tremendous success which is a cure for all ailments. Fans cared about what transpired on the ice period. The players could get away with murder but it didn't really matter when they won.

This is not 100% true now it was a while ago but in 1971 they won the cup and the anglo coach got death threats.

At one point in the final, MacNeil decided his team needed a shakeup so he juggled the lines. He also chose to sit Richard down for a long stretch. Given the fabled Richard temperament (Maurice Richard was two sticks of dynamite in search of a lit match), Henri spit sparks then he exploded. He called MacNeil the worst coach he'd ever played for and set off a maelstrom in Montreal.

The anti-MacNeil backlash was so strong someone fired off a death threat saying he was going to get the coach. The police responded with around-the-clock protection. Unfortunately for MacNeil that meant around the clock in his house, on the road, at the rink -- even on the bench.

Maybe would of happen with a French coach but...
 

Toene

Y'en aura pas de facile
Nov 17, 2014
4,906
4,842
So one game without a Quebec born player in the line up and all of a sudden all that changes?
No, that's not what I said. My point is that I have no problem with the org putting emphasis on the culture and making moves in that sense. Especially when it makes no difference on the ice. We're talking about two interchangeable 4th liners.
I am very critical of the Sergachev Drouin trade, for example. That's an example for me of a move to bring a French guy that's clearly detrimental.
 
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Lafleurs Guy

Guuuuuuuy!
Jul 20, 2007
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No, that's not what I said. My point is that I have no problem with the org putting emphasis on the culture and making moves in that sense. Especially when it makes no difference on the ice. We're talking about two interchangeable 4th liners.
I am very critical of the Sergachev Drouin trade, for example. That's an example for me of a move to bring a French guy that's clearly detrimental.
It's not something to be outraged about either way...

We're talking about who plays 4th line wing here. It's inconsequential. Only thing I might be upset over is if a guy like Poehling gets bypassed for political reasons. That rubs me the wrong way. But if he's out and we need a spot then honestly, I don't really care here.
 
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nhlfan9191

Registered User
Aug 4, 2010
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French or not, RHP is the guy I wouldve wanted to see called up. He plays the game a bit like Gallagher and would fit in our style of play.

What is our style? I’m confused on what the identity of this team really is.
 

Perrah

Registered User
Jul 2, 2009
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No, that's not what I said. My point is that I have no problem with the org putting emphasis on the culture and making moves in that sense. Especially when it makes no difference on the ice. We're talking about two interchangeable 4th liners.
I am very critical of the Sergachev Drouin trade, for example. That's an example for me of a move to bring a French guy that's clearly detrimental.

I agree this move is inconsequential. Would have been interesting to see how it played out if Gallagher and Byron werent injured.
 

WeThreeKings

Habs cup - its in the BAG
Sep 19, 2006
91,123
91,559
Halifax
... Eric Staal is also an established veteran. Doesn't mean he should be in the lineup. But he is.

Yeah he sucks but he's not sitting tonight to allow for Yannick Veilleix to play a hockey game to pander to a select group of fans.

If I was quebecois id frankly be insulted to think the organization thinks so little of the cultural identity that Alex Belzile should give me pride
 
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le_sean

Registered User
Oct 21, 2006
39,546
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I agree this move is inconsequential. Would have been interesting to see how it played out if Gallagher and Byron werent injured.

Then they should ice the best lineup and it would be sad to see the streak end, but it would be completely understandable. But to complain about Belzile coming in for Frolik is asinine.
 
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MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
50,668
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Yeah he sucks but he's not sitting tonight to allow for Yannick Veilleix to play a hockey game to pander to a select group of fans.

If I was quebecois id frankly be insulted to think the organization thinks so little of the cultural identity that Alex Belzile should give me pride

I'm Québecois and, in this debate, my pride stems mostly to be on the side who's not mad about, ultimately, Michael Frolik being a healthy scratch.
 

Crapadiens

Registered User
Feb 4, 2009
88
88
Belzile with the reverse hat trick tonight (-1 +/-. a giveaway resulting in a goal, and a penalty)
How's that for a gars de chez nous?

5-2 Leafs
 

Lafleurs Guy

Guuuuuuuy!
Jul 20, 2007
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Yeah he sucks but he's not sitting tonight to allow for Yannick Veilleix to play a hockey game to pander to a select group of fans.

If I was quebecois id frankly be insulted to think the organization thinks so little of the cultural identity that Alex Belzile should give me pride
I see no reason for outrage here.

I was annoyed when I thought Poehling was overstepped but he's not an option so it doesn't really matter. Frolik, Weal... I mean, these aren't guys to get upset over.
 
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Perrah

Registered User
Jul 2, 2009
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Then they should ice the best lineup and it would be sad to see the streak end, but it would be completely understandable. But to complain about Belzile coming in for Frolik is asinine.
I agree, I am just saying I would like to see MB and Molson in that position and see what they do.
 

overlords

#DefundCBC
Aug 16, 2008
31,530
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I'm a better player than Staal is at this point.


I don't think you have to hate anyone to think this move is an empty gesture.

I'm all for preserving a French presence on the team but the reality is that it's getting harder and harder to do. There simply isn't the same percentage of French players that there used to be. French superstars are becoming increasingly uncommon, bordering on rare.

Cut the chord tonight and add more French players next year.

I'm not going to lose any sleep over this either way but I think it's an empty move.

Well we both know that if I were coach I'd be putting you on the ice :naughty:

Agree that it's an empty gesture. You know more than most where I stand on identity politics. This is just an optics move so that Bergevin doesn't have be 'that guy'. From my perspective, if this little move keeps the summer conversation centered on how objectively terrible Bergevin's reign has been, rather than allowing the dishonest journos out there to spin the conversation into a language thing, well I'll take that silver lining.

I would bet dollars to donuts that most of those angered by the move support identity politics when it aligns with their own biases or opinions, though. :dunno:
 
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dinodebino

Registered User
Sep 27, 2017
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Yeah he sucks but he's not sitting tonight to allow for Yannick Veilleix to play a hockey game to pander to a select group of fans.

If I was quebecois id frankly be insulted to think the organization thinks so little of the cultural identity that Alex Belzile should give me pride
Veilleux would make things interesting though. :naughty:
 
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