Post-Game Talk: Habs def. Canucks - 6-2 (Beagle, Gaudette)

[likash]

And somehow Pettersson is not a minus player after 12 games . He also hit 5 crossbars. With a little luck he could have 8 goals and 4 assits in 12 games.

 

[IslandBeast]

And somehow Pettersson is not a minus player after 12 games . He also hit 5 crossbars. With a little luck he could have 8 goals and 4 assits in 12 games.

I understand what you're saying but I can't give him the benefit of the right now. The kid has been literally just falling down without even being touched, he's a mess right now, no confidence, weak on his skates and not producing. It's not good enough.

And WOW now I see where AV was coming from when he had issues with JT Miller. He has shown horrible character issues so far, very disappointed in him right now for that and I've actually never had that type of feeling for any Canuck player. Slamming your stick when your team is up 6-1? taking bad penalties, lazy attitude when things aren't going well. Not good

 

[CherryToke]

I won't blame any of the players anymore. They're in a shithole toxic work environment

 

[Chimpradamus]

The people counting giveaways in this game were out for lunch. A ton of Canucks giveaways didn't count. Boeser had at least two bad giveaways, he ended up with zero. Myers clearly gave the puck away at least once, no giveaway in the stats for him. There's no way Van 11 - Habs 19 in turnovers was even remotely accurate, it looked more the other way around.

1st goal against (1st line): Blown coverage deluxe after a dirty turnover at the offensive blueline (puck got caught in a stick on the ice). Hughes and Miller both stand at the far post while Pettersson is late for the backcheck being the furthest into the offensive zone on the attack. No one stands in front of the net. What a freebie goal.

2nd goal against (PP line): Gaudette fumbles royally with the puck as the last man back. Another freebie goal. I think that was a clear giveaway by Gaudette. The staff counting giveaways didn't. Zero giveaways on Gaudette as well.

3rd goal against (1st line): Again a clown show in the own end. Edler gets walked while Hughes coughs it up along the boards to no one, Boeser decides to double team a Habs player and loses sight of his defenseman, who walks in and score.

4th goal against (Sutter line): Hughes goes for his offensive rush as the last man back with Edler out of position. Hughes coughs it up and it's a clear breakaway the other way. It probably should've been a penalty on the Habs player interfering with Edler trying to go back, but whatever, he probably wouldn't have made it.

5th goal against (1st line): Miller with a bad turnover, Montreal gets the oddman rush, Chatfield commits to the boards with zero effect, Hughes gets left alone against a 2 on 1 and does nothing to help Holtby. It was essentially a 4 on 2 anyway, so whatever.

6th goal against (PK): Playing a diamond formation against the 1-3-1 setup? Yeeaaah... let's just completely ignore the guy and leave a big hole in the middle of the slot. That's exactly what happened.

Vancouver lost this game because of terrible turnovers at the worst spots and bad defensive coverage - and not having Markström to cover up the shitty, numerous brainfarts as he did the last two seasons.

 

[Matte99]

Miller a -3, Pettersson a -3 and Boeser -3. BRUTAL

That means top line COMBINED -9.

Missed the game they play THAT bad?

Yes.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Good news, everyone! We finally broke the slump against Winnipeg!

Bad news, everyone - we’ve replaced it with a slump against Montreal.

 

[I am toxic]

I won't blame any of the players anymore. They're in a shithole toxic work environment

What more could you want?

 

[I am toxic]

Good news, everyone! We finally broke the slump against Winnipeg!

Bad news, everyone - we’ve replaced it with a slump against Montreal.

The Vancouver Slumpbusters.

 

[M2Beezy]

Good news, everyone! We finally broke the slump against Winnipeg!

Bad news, everyone - we’ve replaced it with a slump against Montreal.

Time ta brake it tonight Mr C

 

[ekimbo]

The people counting giveaways in this game were out for lunch. A ton of Canucks giveaways didn't count. Boeser had at least two bad giveaways, he ended up with zero. Myers clearly gave the puck away at least once, no giveaway in the stats for him. There's no way Van 11 - Habs 19 in turnovers was even remotely accurate, it looked more the other way around.

1st goal against (1st line): Blown coverage deluxe after a dirty turnover at the offensive blueline (puck got caught in a stick on the ice). Hughes and Miller both stand at the far post while Pettersson is late for the backcheck being the furthest into the offensive zone on the attack. No one stands in front of the net. What a freebie goal.

2nd goal against (PP line): Gaudette fumbles royally with the puck as the last man back. Another freebie goal. I think that was a clear giveaway by Gaudette. The staff counting giveaways didn't. Zero giveaways on Gaudette as well.

3rd goal against (1st line): Again a clown show in the own end. Edler gets walked while Hughes coughs it up along the boards to no one, Boeser decides to double team a Habs player and loses sight of his defenseman, who walks in and score.

4th goal against (Sutter line): Hughes goes for his offensive rush as the last man back with Edler out of position. Hughes coughs it up and it's a clear breakaway the other way. It probably should've been a penalty on the Habs player interfering with Edler trying to go back, but whatever, he probably wouldn't have made it.

5th goal against (1st line): Miller with a bad turnover, Montreal gets the oddman rush, Chatfield commits to the boards with zero effect, Hughes gets left alone against a 2 on 1 and does nothing to help Holtby. It was essentially a 4 on 2 anyway, so whatever.

6th goal against (PK): Playing a diamond formation against the 1-3-1 setup? Yeeaaah... let's just completely ignore the guy and leave a big hole in the middle of the slot. That's exactly what happened.

Vancouver lost this game because of terrible turnovers at the worst spots and bad defensive coverage - and not having Markström to cover up the shitty, numerous brainfarts as he did the last two seasons.

minor point: i think the 4th was actually Chatfield going for the rush if I recall correctly.

 

[Chimpradamus]

minor point: i think the 4th was actually Chatfield going for the rush if I recall correctly.

Yes, you're correct. We can scratch that one off the "Dang it!" list of Hughes.

 

[Orr4Norris]

After tonight, the Canucks will have played 13 games in 21 days. After a one week training camp. I’m not surprised they look sloppy.

 

[Peter10]

After tonight, the Canucks will have played 13 games in 21 days. After a one week training camp. I’m not surprised they look sloppy.

They looked sloopy in game 2 already.

 

[Chimpradamus]

After tonight, the Canucks will have played 13 games in 21 days. After a one week training camp. I’m not surprised they look sloppy.

It is a point that needs to be mentioned in all of this. The Canucks have overall played really sloppy and inaccurate hockey, but they've also had one of the heaviest schedules in the league combined with the young age of players who are supposed to carry the torch. That is a bad combination. Scratch that, it's a terrible combination. The Canucks haven't played well, but this isn't their year. They need rest to rehone and practice and they've had minimal time for practice so far. Of course that affects the team performance.

When the Canucks get a resting gap where they can practice properly, we can at least hope some of the major mistakes done on the ice are shaded off the bit required to start raising the curve. And if they don't, well, this season is such an anomaly it barely counts. It's a freak season. A start in january, no real training camp, a compressed schedule and no crowds. I would hate it as a professional athlete. I can only imagine how surreal it must feel to play games that really count in a silent building.

Naturally the younger players are the most affected by this in combination, they don't have the experience to handle these great changes as well as professional veterans. And the Canucks rely on youth right now.

 

[canuckking1]

It is a point that needs to be mentioned in all of this. The Canucks have overall played really sloppy and inaccurate hockey, but they've also had one of the heaviest schedules in the league combined with the young age of players who are supposed to carry the torch. That is a bad combination. Scratch that, it's a terrible combination. The Canucks haven't played well, but this isn't their year. They need rest to rehone and practice and they've had minimal time for practice so far. Of course that affects the team performance.

When the Canucks get a resting gap where they can practice properly, we can at least hope some of the major mistakes done on the ice are shaded off the bit required to start raising the curve. And if they don't, well, this season is such an anomaly it barely counts. It's a freak season. A start in january, no real training camp, a compressed schedule and no crowds. I would hate it as a professional athlete. I can only imagine how surreal it must feel to play games that really count in a silent building.

The good news is after this road trip they have the lightest schedule in the division.

 

[Chimpradamus]

The good news is after this road trip they have the lightest schedule in the division.

Well, here is their opportunity to analyze their mistakes, hone their game and start forming a better team from here on out. That they're merely a .50 team from all of this is actually a comfort if you ask me. That the PP is still as stale as an iron lever is not comforting though. There are more disconcerning parts that stretch beyond this season. But they can at least adapt to stop playing like a clown show during stretches and stay competitive with their opponents during the game. I mean, Markström is gone and the defensive bleeding has to stop if that player loss is to be covered. So has the numerous, terrible turnovers. No one wins a championship bleeding mistakes. Other than that, they have a shot at least.

 

[mossey3535]

Watched the game on tape last night. We've basically shown that we can't win a game against teams that can overwhelm us with speed and/or play a consistently heavy game.

Three against Ottawa - I mean, we shouldn't lose at all to that team.

One against Winnipeg - looking back that might well prove to be a rando one-off since it was a rare single game and we executed everything perfectly. Caught a bit of the CGY/WPG game last night and Winnipeg was doing the same stuff as us on defence again. So far we can beat the Jets if their defence clown-shows it up as much as our defence does.

In this case yeah there were a lot of turnovers but IMO the main issue is that once we get past the forechecking scheme (which at times last night wasn't bad - Motte line was actually quite effective) there is no defensive system.

Some have suggested we have a collapsing system but I would argue against that since our D often chase their guy out of position and the forwards can't seem to rotate to cover them. This is precisely why most teams don't let their D-men chase above the hashes....the handoff is much simpler and less dangerous if the winger leaves the d-man to cover the forward who has wandered so high. In fact, that would be more similar to a PK system where you can't let your D chase because you're already outnumbered and can't afford for them to get out of position.

Also, our D don't do simple things like hand-off net front responsibilities as the other goes into the corner. On breakouts they don't effectively angle themselves to give their partner an easy pass.. Chatfield gave up a brutal turnover where he was rushing on the same side of the ice as Edler, so there was no spacing. In fact our D are often in the same quadrant of the d-zone which is unnecessary double coverage. I don't even know how extra practice time is going to help this because we've let them all play like this for every year of Green's tenure. These are absolute basics!

Chatfield to my eye looked ok for about a period and then he started doing just absolutely boneheaded things. Of course there are growing pains with young guys but let's not pretend that this guy has a particularly high ceiling. In fact, my issue isn't even that he's playing - it's that we're so obviously trying to replicate last season with way less depth.

As I predicted last PGT, Benn was absolutely useless when MTL had enough speed to harass Quinn. He was slow, hesitant, and out of position a lot so couldn't help when Quinn had to get rid of the puck quickly. This is another issue with the D, where the veteran d-men who should be bringing stability are wildly inconsistent. Edler had one good offensive play to assist on the fluke Beagle goal, then just slow-footed his way meandering around doing random things in his own zone most of the rest of the game. Schmidt wasn't as good as usual this game and Myers was the same as usual so basically we had no effective d-pairings.

Who do we plug in if this group doesn't play well? As poorly as Chatfield played last night, OJ is at best a lateral move. Rafferty? Hamonic? Who else is coming, Woo? The construction of this defence is a joke.

 

[4Twenty]

It is a point that needs to be mentioned in all of this. The Canucks have overall played really sloppy and inaccurate hockey, but they've also had one of the heaviest schedules in the league combined with the young age of players who are supposed to carry the torch. That is a bad combination. Scratch that, it's a terrible combination. The Canucks haven't played well, but this isn't their year. They need rest to rehone and practice and they've had minimal time for practice so far. Of course that affects the team performance.

When the Canucks get a resting gap where they can practice properly, we can at least hope some of the major mistakes done on the ice are shaded off the bit required to start raising the curve. And if they don't, well, this season is such an anomaly it barely counts. It's a freak season. A start in january, no real training camp, a compressed schedule and no crowds. I would hate it as a professional athlete. I can only imagine how surreal it must feel to play games that really count in a silent building.

Naturally the younger players are the most affected by this in combination, they don't have the experience to handle these great changes as well as professional veterans. And the Canucks rely on youth right now.

Isn’t that the exact combination they were successful in the bubble in?


Why aren’t other teams with young players not affected as much. Just the games?

The Ottawa games they didn’t even hit 2nd gear. Those could and should be viewed as live action practice situations. Yet Ottawa fir significant chunks carried the play. And the Canucks didn’t improve their game really and are being punished for it.

 

[Chimpradamus]

Watched the game on tape last night. We've basically shown that we can't win a game against teams that can overwhelm us with speed and/or play a consistently heavy game.

Three against Ottawa - I mean, we shouldn't lose at all to that team.

One against Winnipeg - looking back that might well prove to be a rando one-off since it was a rare single game and we executed everything perfectly. Caught a bit of the CGY/WPG game last night and Winnipeg was doing the same stuff as us on defence again. So far we can beat the Jets if their defence clown-shows it up as much as our defence does.

In this case yeah there were a lot of turnovers but IMO the main issue is that once we get past the forechecking scheme (which at times last night wasn't bad - Motte line was actually quite effective) there is no defensive system.

Some have suggested we have a collapsing system but I would argue against that since our D often chase their guy out of position and the forwards can't seem to rotate to cover them. This is precisely why most teams don't let their D-men chase above the hashes....the handoff is much simpler and less dangerous if the winger leaves the d-man to cover the forward who has wandered so high. In fact, that would be more similar to a PK system where you can't let your D chase because you're already outnumbered and can't afford for them to get out of position.

Also, our D don't do simple things like hand-off net front responsibilities as the other goes into the corner. On breakouts they don't effectively angle themselves to give their partner an easy pass.. Chatfield gave up a brutal turnover where he was rushing on the same side of the ice as Edler, so there was no spacing. In fact our D are often in the same quadrant of the d-zone which is unnecessary double coverage. I don't even know how extra practice time is going to help this because we've let them all play like this for every year of Green's tenure. These are absolute basics!

Chatfield to my eye looked ok for about a period and then he started doing just absolutely boneheaded things. Of course there are growing pains with young guys but let's not pretend that this guy has a particularly high ceiling. In fact, my issue isn't even that he's playing - it's that we're so obviously trying to replicate last season with way less depth.

As I predicted last PGT, Benn was absolutely useless when MTL had enough speed to harass Quinn. He was slow, hesitant, and out of position a lot so couldn't help when Quinn had to get rid of the puck quickly. This is another issue with the D, where the veteran d-men who should be bringing stability are wildly inconsistent. Edler had one good offensive play to assist on the fluke Beagle goal, then just slow-footed his way meandering around doing random things in his own zone most of the rest of the game. Schmidt wasn't as good as usual this game and Myers was the same as usual so basically we had no effective d-pairings.

Who do we plug in if this group doesn't play well? As poorly as Chatfield played last night, OJ is at best a lateral move. Rafferty? Hamonic? Who else is coming, Woo? The construction of this defence is a joke.

Put Loui Eriksson on defense, he can't be any worse. I'm only kidding but with the plays Chatfield did, I don't know if I fully do.

 

[4Twenty]

Eriksson should be playing. Team would be more solid defensively but nobody wants to hear it.

 

[Zippgunn]

It's very rare to hear a goalie give his team the Miller callout. They usually defend them with some sort of rationalization like "They let me see all the shots.", "All the shots were from the outside", They worked real hard and sometimes things just don't go your way." Holtby has been around the block. This isn't his first rodeo. He's not going to throw the guys under the bus any more than he expects to hear them sell him out. It's just not how TEAMS work.

Yeah tell you what, I'm glad it was Holtby and not Demko that got shelled in this game; Holtby has been there and done that and knows that there was very little he could have done to change the outcome of this game. He never once looked rattled or like he had given up. If it were Demko I might be worried about his confidence, maybe. The usual suspects were all over Holtby during this game but I think they are insane, even with his awful save % he made all kinds of crazy saves and STILL ended up about an .850. I for one am glad we have him. Green et al have to go and soon...

 

[Zippgunn]

Eriksson should be playing. Team would be more solid defensively but nobody wants to hear it.

Nobody wants to talk about the 6 million dollar elephant in the room. You're going to tell me that Gaudette is a better player than Loui?

 

[4Twenty]

Nobody wants to talk about the 6 million dollar elephant in the room. You're going to tell me that Gaudette is a better player than Loui?

No I’m not. Loui is better than Gaudette, Virtanen, Roussel, and Macewen. The other guys bring different things but Loui would get better results.

I follow other sports and he’s getting the Ozil treatment. Arsenal fans like me know this well. This is the start of trying to force him out for next season.

 

[Chimpradamus]

No I’m not. Loui is better than Gaudette, Virtanen, Roussel, and Macewen. The other guys bring different things but Loui would get better results.

I follow other sports and he’s getting the Ozil treatment. Arsenal fans like me know this well. This is the start of trying to force him out for next season.

It's ridiculous, really. Sure, Eriksson is a black hole offensively of his former self, but he knows damn well how to play defensive hockey and support the team in 2/3 zones. Those are the two zones the team struggles mightily in. He's solid in the defensive zone and is actually pretty slick in the neutral zone. He's still kind of good in puck battles. But I guess it feels better "moving forward" with a player that is getting cycled out of the lineup in the future. But the future isn't now. If you pay him regardless and the team plays like this, why not play him?

If only the coach could work with him and turn him into a crease player offensively - as he should be used and was always used, he wouldn't be this pariah. But the Canucks can't afford that kind of role player in their game.

The primary problem for this team is bleeding goals to a ridiculous rate. He could help more than some other players currently playing, that's for sure.

 

[Zippgunn]

It's ridiculous, really. Sure, Eriksson is a black hole offensively of his former self, but he knows damn well how to play defensive hockey and support the team in 2/3 zones. Those are the two zones the team struggles mightily in. He's solid in the defensive zone and is actually pretty slick in the neutral zone. He's still kind of good in puck battles. But I guess it feels better "moving forward" with a player that is getting cycled out of the lineup in the future. But the future isn't now. If you pay him regardless and the team plays like this, why not play him?

If only the coach could work with him and turn him into a crease player offensively - as he should be used and was always used, he wouldn't be this pariah. But the Canucks can't afford that kind of role player in their game.

The primary problem for this team is bleeding goals to a ridiculous rate. He could help more than some other players currently playing, that's for sure.

I'm not exactly a big fan of Loui but I find it encouraging that some people agree with me that he should be in the lineup after our mostly awful start. The hatred for him on this board has become almost personal but he is actually a solid 2 way player and I simply can't imagine that he wouldn't help at least a bit compared to at least 3 other players on this team that keep getting free pass after free pass. There must be a reason that is not hockey related for his exile from the lineup and with the way this team is playing that is simply unacceptable. They have to play him no matter what so why not use him? Maybe they are worried he might actually (gasp!) catch fire! Hey crazier things have happened...