Post-Game Talk: Habs def. Canucks - 6-2 (Beagle, Gaudette)

[Kryten]

I wonder what would be the worst shots per game a team has allowed over the course of a year in the last decade or so

since 2010-11 the worst was the 13-14 TML with 35.9 shots against per game
And you would have to go back to 93-94 to find a worse team with LAK at 36.3, our current average

 

[Dab]

On another note it’s kind of stupid how many more games the canucks have played over some others...

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Guys need to relax and temper expectations. When good teams underachieve it’s frustrating. When bad teams overachieve (like last year) it’s fun. We are built like a .500 hockey club and that’s what we are. Do people really wanna try to squeak in to a playoff spot? So we can play MTL or TO ? And lose the series in 3 games? (Yes I know it’s a best of 7, that’s the joke) or move in and play a team like Vegas or Colorado? Lol.

if we aren’t winning it all (and we aren’t even close) , who cares. Have fun with the 25 wins we get this season., and laugh at the losses.

 

[CherryToke]

Guys need to relax and temper expectations. When good teams underachieve it’s frustrating. When bad teams overachieve (like last year) it’s fun. We are built like a .500 hockey club and that’s what we are. Do people really wanna try to squeak in to a playoff spot? So we can play MTL or TO ? And lose the series in 3 games? (Yes I know it’s a best of 7, that’s the joke) or move in and play a team like Vegas or Colorado? Lol.

if we aren’t winning it all (and we aren’t even close) , who cares. Have fun with the 25 wins we get this season., and laugh at the losses.

But anything can happen if you make the playoffs

I think we should wait and see

 

[Cogburn]

Oof.

That was not an enjoyable game to watch. Did anyone count the breakaways given up? It had to be double digits, not counting partial breaks or 2-0r-3-on-1s.

Beagle, Motte and Virtanen as a line were the only positive I can see out of this, I liked that line and they weren't actively terrible. Normally I'd say they had too much time on the ice, but they didn't get scored on 5-on-5. I don't think Horvat's line did, while they were together, either. That's my bar for this game.

Sutter and MacEwen weren't awful, but Gaudette...man, I think I'm over him. He was bad enough to have lost the game for us solo, in spite of scoring the only goal of any significance for us this game.

Our defense couldn't take the pressure. Myers-Schmidt were pedestrian and didn't cover each others weaknesses. I don't like that pairing. Edler and Chatfield were getting over run at their blue line, seemingly every play. Chatfield's warts to his game definitely came up tonight. Hughes was out of position, or runover, on at least two of the early goals, and I don't think Benn can be a longterm coverage option here (covering Hughes), especially if we're playing Hughes as a top four D. It's a shame, as I've liked Benn's game for the most part this season.

While being unable to produce a single point, our top line was super unprepared defensively, which I found hilarious as the talking heads were all over how well they played defensively the last few games.

Even Shorthouse seem really off his game, like every other play he had the wrong name and number called.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Hobey Baker winners who were drafted, which is more than half of them, average about 500 NHL regular season games which is quite good. It's the undrafted guys who've struggled and average about 50 NHL games. I broke down the numbers three years ago in Gaudette's main board prospect thread. Scroll down a few posts on this page if you want the details.

C Adam Gaudette - Northeastern University, NCAA (2015, 149th, VAN)

Scott Perunovich, the 2020 Hobey winner, had been drafted by the Blues in the 2nd round of the 2018 draft after is Freshman year at U of Minnesota-Duluth. he was the 45th overall pick. He signed after the completion of his Jr. in 2020 as the Hobey Baker Award winner. He is a defenseman. He finished his 3 seasons having posted a .91 PPG and +49.

He was originally in the group of 19 players sent to Utica, but never made it here. He is riding in the St. Louis taxi. The Blues have played 9 games and he has yet to open the door of the cab. I was disappointed at not getting an opportunity to see him for just a little while at least, LOL.

Based upon your research, what would you project the chances of his NHL career as a Hobey Baker Award winner.

I'm still hoping that the Blues send him down if for nothing more than a conditioning stint of 3 or 4 games and 8 or so practices. The Comets are going to have lots of practice time between sets of games. 32 games to played between Feb. 5th and May 14th, that's 98 days without a game and 28 of those games will be played in either Rochester (2hr ride) or Syracuse (1hr ride). No overnight with any of these games with a short ride back to their own beds for the night. 2 road trips for 1 game and a longer ride home, but I believe I read no overnight for those 2 games either, money savings. One in Newark, Jersey vs the Binghamton Devils and one in Marlborough, Massachusetts vs the Providence Bruins.

 

[Luck 6]

Guys need to relax and temper expectations. When good teams underachieve it’s frustrating. When bad teams overachieve (like last year) it’s fun. We are built like a .500 hockey club and that’s what we are. Do people really wanna try to squeak in to a playoff spot? So we can play MTL or TO ? And lose the series in 3 games? (Yes I know it’s a best of 7, that’s the joke) or move in and play a team like Vegas or Colorado? Lol.

if we aren’t winning it all (and we aren’t even close) , who cares. Have fun with the 25 wins we get this season., and laugh at the losses.

I think it does matter, because progression matters. We need to see the team establish itself as a regular playoff contender, if we do that will help attract free agents, help convince our stars to take discounts, and help establish a winning culture. I’m not “okay” with losing, I want this team to make the playoffs even if they do squeak in.

 

[MS]

Even Shorthouse seem really off his game, like every other play he had the wrong name and number called.

In their defense, Shorthouse and Garrett are sitting in Vancouver calling a game in Montreal off a monitor. Can't be easy.

 

[I am toxic]

Green doesn’t have a system that will work with the roster. It’s built for the roster he thinks he has but doesn’t.

Still, bad system or not there are copious amounts of missed assignments nearly every game. Assignments common to any system (see Miller on the third goal). That isn’t just on the coaching staff.

All snarkiness aside (not to you but just my general snarkiness to everything), this is a genuine question:

Background to the question is that I have heard Green's system called something along the lines of high-pressure forecheck, I can't recall the exact words used.

More background: I know of 1-2-2 and 2-1-2 forechecks, I don't consider that a system but could see it as part of a system.

More more background: my belief regarding systems is that they are essentially designed to reduce options (forcibly for the other team by physically preventing them through your own positioning, or voluntarily for your own team by buying into the system, positioning yourself appropriately depending on whether you are F1, F2, F3, D1 or D2 at the time) to limit decision making and make decisions faster.

Given that background, can you - or anyone - explain to me what Green's system is. Please gawd don't say play 5v5 like a PK and hope to score off the rush.

Signing out, will be checking in later. TIA.

 

[Cogburn]

In their defense, Shorthouse and Garrett are sitting in Vancouver calling a game in Montreal off a monitor. Can't be easy.

Suppose so, their still usually professionals regardless of settings. I was more using that to frame how poorly the game went, on like, every level.

 

[Bad Goalie]

On another note it’s kind of stupid how many more games the canucks have played over some others...

As far games are concerned that will all even out over the course of the season. Everyone plays the same number of games, and gets 3 games in 4- day series and back to backs. Can't blame the scheduling this season because the Divisions are not equally spread set up by proximity to one's opponents. The COVID issue created the necessity for reconstruction of Divisions by geography and the North Division came out the loser. Canada's quarantine rules made traveling back and forth across the border an impossible situation. So, the all Canadian setup is the worst in the league. Canadian teams are spread from coast to coast and every team will travel coast to coast, but Vancouver probably travels the most miles since the Eastern teams are very close and involve short trips while the Western teams travel farther to play each other with Vancouver still the frequent flier miles winner.

That's the breaks. They make the best of it or fold their tent and wait for next season. They knew from the start how that would go and they can't cry over the circumstances. You can use that as an excuse, but it just sounds like crying over spilt milk. It's like Benning using the injury excuse at the end of the season as he has done more than once. All teams have injuries and you either overcome them or you don't.

 

[m9]

I think this game more than anything solidified the tier break right now between Toronto/Montreal and everyone else. 4 teams probably battling for 2 spots. What a break for all the Canadian teams with only 6 competitive teams for the 4 spots.

 

[Blue and Green]

Scott Perunovich, the 2020 Hobey winner, had been drafted by the Blues in the 2nd round of the 2018 draft after is Freshman year at U of Minnesota-Duluth. he was the 45th overall pick. He signed after the completion of his Jr. in 2020 as the Hobey Baker Award winner. He is a defenseman. He finished his 3 seasons having posted a .91 PPG and +49.

He was originally in the group of 19 players sent to Utica, but never made it here. He is riding in the St. Louis taxi. The Blues have played 9 games and he has yet to open the door of the cab. I was disappointed at not getting an opportunity to see him for just a little while at least, LOL.

Based upon your research, what would you project the chances of his NHL career as a Hobey Baker Award winner.

I'm still hoping that the Blues send him down if for nothing more than a conditioning stint of 3 or 4 games and 8 or so practices. The Comets are going to have lots of practice time between sets of games. 32 games to played between Feb. 5th and May 14th, that's 98 days without a game and 28 of those games will be played in either Rochester (2hr ride) or Syracuse (1hr ride). No overnight with any of these games with a short ride back to their own beds for the night. 2 road trips for 1 game and a longer ride home, but I believe I read no overnight for those 2 games either, money savings. One in Newark, Jersey vs the Binghamton Devils and one in Marlborough, Massachusetts vs the Providence Bruins.

Haven't seen the player so can't really make much judgement. Most of the Baker winners drafted after the first round have been in the average to good range as NHLers. 500 games is a pretty solid career and that's been approximately the median. Perunovich is not yet on the Blues roster at age 22 so he's probably not headed for stardom.

 

[vanarchy]

Green can lash out at the lotto line till the sun goes down but there is a fundamental problem with the way this team is constructed. Benning can't even get us out of the predicament he puts us in because his anchor contracts prevent him from being able to "fix" anything. Add a coach who is completely out of his element and you have a recipe for disaster.

 

[canucksfan]

I think this game more than anything solidified the tier break right now between Toronto/Montreal and everyone else. 4 teams probably battling for 2 spots. What a break for all the Canadian teams with only 6 competitive teams for the 4 spots.

Last year the northwest division had four competitive teams.

 

[Peen]

Couldn't watch the game unfortunately but it's unfortunate to see the result after their first good perfomance of the season in winnipeg.

 

[Paradise Circus]

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

Hm. Wonder whos fault this could be

Lol those are gaudy numbers.

 

[VanJack]

Green can lash out at the lotto line till the sun goes down but there is a fundamental problem with the way this team is constructed. Benning can't even get us out of the predicament he puts us in because his anchor contracts prevent him from being able to "fix" anything. Add a coach who is completely out of his element and you have a recipe for disaster.

This game is a classic reminder of why the Canucks need a change behind the bench...probably won't happen in this shortened season, but the Canucks really do need to move in a different direction this offseason.

The defensive breakdowns and awful puck possession game simply shouldn't happen to a team in the NHL. Canucks are making individual blunders that a junior hockey team wouldn't make. And this is isn't just something that's cropped up early this season. Green's teams simply haven't been good enough defensively for three seasons now.

How long would the coach at the other bench--Claude Julien--tolerate what is happening in the Canucks zone night after night? Not long, I'd wager. Time for a change.

 

[brock hughes007]

yeah fresh start,,more goals against, great stat we have,,most goals against by a wide margin...

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

% of games with 3+ GF:
1. Toronto 90
2. Montreal 89
3. Winnipeg 78
4. Edmonton 67
5. Calgary 63
6. Vancouver 58
7. Ottawa 44

% of games with 3+ GA
1. Montreal 33
2. Toronto 60
3. Calgary 63
4. Vancouver 67
5. Edmonton 78
6. Winnipeg 89
7. Ottawa 100

% of games with 4+ GF
1. Montreal 78
2. Winnipeg 56
Edmonton 56
4. Vancouver 50
5. Toronto 40
6. Ottawa 22
7. Calgary 13

% of games with 4+ GA
1. Montreal 22
2. Toronto 30
3. Cal 38
4. Winnipeg 44
5. Vancouver 50
6. Edmonton 78
8. Ottawa 78

Point %
1. Montreal 78
2. Toronto 70
3. Winnipeg 61
4. Calgary 56
5. Vancouver 500
6. Edmonton 456
7. Ottawa 17

Defence has to show up if we want a chance at the playoffs. Just being better than Edmonton and Ottawa is not good enough. If the team plays the way it did in the last 2 periods against Winnipeg a majority of the time, that's a playoff team. If it plays the way it did almost every other game, the players better get their golf clubs ready.

 

[CherryToke]

In case anyone forgot. The Sens outshot us 24 - 6 in 1 period. Green had no problem with that effort though

 

[lawrence]

soooo the teams been 8 of our last 9 games? this can't be good........ love this team but this can't be good..... Gerard Galant is still available right? Gerard Galant is still available if he wants to come to vancity.

 

[lawrence]

Terrible. Looked to me like Montreal took their foot of the gas or otherwise it might well have hit double figures. So many of out so-called main line players were awful. Hard to remember when the turnovers were so grievous and so repeated.

Good

Motte - no matter the score continues to stay with the system and continues to work. Him and Beagle played well in circumstances were much of the rest of the team was falling apart

Virtanen - created some chances and went to the body. Probably his best game of the season. Tailed off some as the game went on but overall solid effort

Bad

Schmidt - to this point not as good as Tanev was last year. Some bad turnovers and not getting to a position where he can make good up ice passes. Looks very limited offensively

Myers - Stork was back on his heels and doing a lot of stick waving. Habs skating had him backed right off. When he did rush just took puck into traffic creating a mess.

Benn - too slow in every aspect of the game. Lot of stick work and never seemed to get on the body to eliminate players. Couldn't get up ice to support the play. In games like this Benn looks done as NHL player

Hughes - real bad in his end. Wasn't picking people up and was doing a lot of standing and watching. Montreal just sifted right through him (like on the Petry tap in goal) and he was left chasing people to his net. Also, throwing the puck around the boards into traffic producing turnovers. Having a very rough time in his own end.

Chatfield - like his play in Utica. Play decently for awhile but then make the huge turnover leading to a critical goal against. Totally out of sync with Edler and other defensive partners leading to numerous breakaways for Montreal. His problems in transition were fully exhibited in this game. One caveat is that, given all the breakdowns and poor play of the forwards, might be expected that a rookie like Chatfield starts to breakdown badly. Likely we see Joulevi next game

Horvat - AWOL when the game was still a contest. Better in the third but basically couldn't create any offense despite some good work by Hoglander.

Pettersson - falling down all over the place and weak defensively. Looked lost at times

Boeser - made some dreadful passes early in the game which screwed up the PP and led to chances against.

Miller - maybe his worst game as a Canuck. So many errant passes and often falling behind the play. Did make a better effort to get back on defense as the game went on but he was often left chasing the game. Line was really a mess and he contributed to that.

Holtby - little unfair but he should have some of those goals. As it was, he did make some good saves and maybe expecting too much out of goalies.

Real Bad

Gaudette - simply not an NHL player. Not smooth enough or good enough on his skates. Gets off balance on his pivots and loses speed causing him to fall out the play. Isn't good enough one on one to get by his check or strong enough to win board battles. Try is there but the talent isn't. Should be in the AHL. Winning the Hobey doesn't guarantee you can make it in the NHL

Canuck obviously have to tighten up their defense if they are going to compete in the Division and you have to wonder whether they have personnel to this.

sooooo outside of 2 of our 3rd line players who have a simple role, the ENTIRE TEAM which includes our star forward, captain and all 6 dmans sucked shit, got it.

 

[mathonwy]

In case anyone forgot. The Sens outshot us 24 - 6 in 1 period. Green had no problem with that effort though

PTSD

Worst period ever.