Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Ram*, Mar 15, 2011.
Which team was better overall?
Oilers 80s dynasty.
inb4 2010's Canucks
Didn't have the chance to watch them but I'd say Habs.
lol the Oilers may have had the best top end talent with Gretz and I guess Mess, but the Habs 70s and Habs 50s were the deepest and most dominant teams, bruh-skees
I'd take the 93 Penguins over any of them
then you would lose
Was about to post that.
1976-77 Habs if IMO the best team ever.
60 wins - 8 loses - 12 ties
Shutt: 105pts (60 goals)
Robinson: 85pts (+120, yeah u read it right)
Lemaire: 75pts (34 goals)
Mahovlich: 62pts (47 assists)
Riseborough: 60pts (132PIM)
Cournoyer: 53pts (60 games)
Savard: 42pts (The Big 3 with Larry and Pointu was sick that season)
Jarvis: 38pts (One of the best def forward in the game)
Gainey: 33pts (The best defensive forward EVER)
+ Ken Dryden.
The depth is better than the Isles dynasty and the Pens of 1993 would get sweep in 4 games.
Hard to compare, the game and league evolves. More talent is developed and the compete level of a bottom feeder team to an elite team has only gotten smaller and smaller from the original 6 till now. On any given night the oilers can beat the nucks.
I don't understand why you bring the original 6.
The 70's wasn't in the original six era.
Actually, the difference of the game between the Habs in 76-77 and the Isles' dynasty is none.
I'd take the 93 pens. That habs team was deep in comparison to the other teams in that era. The average skill level of players has gone up exponentially since then. Sorry no offense to the habs of that generation or anything, it's just the developement and resources at the players' disposal these days are not even comparable.
1975-76 Montreal 58-11-11=127
1975-76 Playoffs 12-1
1976-77 Montreal 60-8-12=132
1976-77 Playoffs 12-2
1977-78 Montreal 59-10-11=129
1977-78 Playoffs 12-3
1978-79 Montreal 52-17-11=115
1978-79 Playoffs 12-4
I was fortunate enough to see both dynasties As good as the Islanders were, and make no mistake they were damn good, I still have to pick the 70s Montreal, Their record speaks for itself.
Imagine only losing 8 games in an entire regular season and only 10 counting playoffs. The 1976-77 team playing under todays rules would likely have won 70 or more games and surpassed 150 points.
And no insult to the 80s Oilers but they were not in the same league as the Montreal Canadians or NY Islanders in their prime.
Try reading it again, i never said they were. I was merely mentioning it as a point of reference in time. Basically just saying from point A in time to point B in time, we have seen changes/uprgades to all aspects of the game year after year. I just don't think it's a fair comparison as level of competition has grown. Like how I think you could probably take an AHL team back in time to the 50's and they may very well be a very competitive team in that NHL. (this is of course an extreme example)
The 93 Pens won nothing
1990-91 Pittsburgh 41-33-6-88
1990-91 Playoffs 16-8
1991-92 Pittsburgh 39-32-9-87
1991-92 Playoffs 16-5
1992-93 Pittsburgh 56-21-7-119
1992-93 Playoffs 7-5
Yep those numbers really scream dominance to me.
So lets see a team that only manages 2 Cups, and gets upset in the second round by a team that finished 32 points behind them is better than teams that won 4 Cups in a row and dominated the league like few teams have before or since.
The only season that Pittsburgh even came close to the kind of dominance that Montreal showed was also the same year they got upset by a team 32 points behind them. Something that that 70s Montreal teams would never have allowed to happen.
And the 93 Penguins lost in the playoffs to a team that would be mediocre, at best, in any era of NHL history. No one is arguing that the 70's Habs were the most talented team in history. But they were a tremendous all-around team that while not possessing the raw firepower of the 93 Penguins, were tremendous defensively. It's a far cry from a team that was so opposed to playing defense that they revolted against Scotty Bowman and his notoriously tough coaching style, which was anchored by a defensive philosophy that won the Habs 5 Stanley Cups in the 70's and the Red Wings' 3 more about 20-25 years later.
The 93 Penguins are dramatically over-rated in terms of overall ability. Without Mario Lemieux, the so-called "offensive talent" on that team was doing a whole lot of nothing, sitting just above .500. Kevin Stevens was their offense until Mario Lemieux came back. Mario made the 93 Penguins the 93 Penguins. The level of "talent" on the team was mediocre without him. Stevens and Lemieux were superstars, and that was it. Francis and Jagr were very good players, but let's not confuse the 93 Jagr for the 99 Jagr. Francis was his usual two-way self. But apart from that, this roster's "talent" was not very high.
Up front those Penguin teams could have played with the Isles, Oilers, and Habs dynasties but defensively they were definitely not as good and Barrasso in my opinion was not as good as Fuhr or Smith and nowhere near Dryden.
Agreed. They had a ton of firepower, but were weak on D. Their goaltending was good, but not spectacular. That (and probably overconfidence) led to them being beaten in the 2nd round. The Isles and Habs both had offense and defense, and the 80's Oilers had just as good an offense (or maybe even better), but with better goaltending.
In any event, I could never pick a team that lost in the 2nd round over dynasty teams that dominated for half a decade. Even if you meant the 90-93 Pens, I'd have to disagree. But the 93 Pens specifically? Not a chance.
I don't get the point of even doing comparisons if you are just going to go "Oh but talent is more developed now and resources for players are more available etc." If you're gonna play it like that, all of those teams are going to get rolled by the 2010 Hawks who in turn would be rolled by the 2025 Honolulu Dragons (yes they will exist).
It's about comparing the skill level of those teams independently of such factors which is of course near impossible hence why it's merely a nice game for hockey nerds on the internet and not a scientific discipline.
The Hockey News did a poll among its writer's about 10 years ago. The '76 Canadiens were voted as the greatest team ever.
As what team is greatest, it is according to what fan you are asking. Ask an Islander fan and '80s Islanders are the greatest, ask a Habs fans and '70s Habs are the best
Close but I'll go with the Canadiens of the 70's.
Three best teams I've ever seen play.
The Isles were like the Habs lite.
The Oil just had too much firepower and just enough D to better the Isles. IMHO
I guess it should be said that the Habs beat the Isles and the the Isles and Oil split in SC playoff matches.
Those Habs were the best team I've ever seen including the Red Army teams.
I don't even think of the Pens, Red Wings, Jersey or Avs when I consider this question. FWIW. IMHO they're just run of the mill excellent teams that are pretty much always around in any era.
And the only three losses the Habs had those years were to the pre-Dynasty Isles (no Bossy and a rookie and 2nd year Trottier) in the semi finals.
I would have loved to have seen an Isles/Habs matchup in '78 and/or '79 - but damn those ****ing Leafs and Rags.
I'm guessing that the '78 Habs would have won (in 6 or 7), but my money would have been on the '79 Isles - they had a slightly better regular season record and, IIRC, won the season series against the Habs.
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