Guys who put up terrible CHL points but became NHL studs

[ponder]

I'm looking for guys who, up until they were drafted (not in post-draft years, pre-draft only) had nothing but poor seasons in the CHL in terms of offensive production, but who became very good NHLers. Looking for reasonably recent examples, let's say only guys drafted from the mid 90s onwards. For example:

Shea Weber
Best CHL season pre-draft: 02/03, 2 goals, 18 points in 70 WHL games
Best NHL season to date: 08/09, 23 goals, 53 points in 81 NHL games

Milan Lucic
Best CHL season pre-draft: 05/06, 9 goals, 19 points in 62 WHL games
Best NHL season to date: 10/11, 30 goals, 59 points in 73 NHL games (and counting)


Also, is there any specific common trait to look for? Both of these guys are huge/strong, and good skaters for their size with big shots, but 2 guys is not a large sample size, let's get some more.

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[R S]

I'm looking for guys who, up until they were drafted (not in post-draft years, pre-draft only) had nothing but poor seasons in the CHL in terms of offensive production, but who became very good NHLers. Looking for reasonably recent examples, let's say only guys drafted from the mid 90s onwards. For example:

Shea Weber
Best CHL season pre-draft: 02/03, 2 goals, 18 points in 70 WHL games
Best NHL season to date: 08/09, 23 goals, 53 points in 81 NHL games

Milan Lucic
Best CHL season pre-draft: 05/06, 9 goals, 19 points in 62 WHL games
Best NHL season to date: 10/11, 30 goals, 59 points in 73 NHL games (and counting)


Also, is there any specific common trait to look for? Both of these guys are huge/strong, and good skaters for their size with big shots, but 2 guys is not a large sample size, let's get some more.

The common trait is that they were 17 in their draft year. Players grow and improve.

Good scouts and GM's are the ones who can project players better than anyone else.

That's why it's funny when people scout based on stats.

 

[asmodeanreborn]

Tyler Myers is the one that stands out to me:
6+13 = 19 points in 65 games in his draft year
11+37 = 48 points in 82 games his rookie NHL season

 

[Franck]

Mike Green and Kris Versteeg weren't particularly outstanding as CHL players as far as points are concerned.

 

[hdtrax]

Mike Green and Kris Versteeg weren't particularly outstanding as CHL players as far as points are concerned.

For some reason, I recently read over a mock draft from 2004 and Mike Green was a later pick. He hadn't had an offensively strong year by any stretch of the imagination. The report said the team that picked him would really benefit as Green was slated to be "a reliable 2 way defender." Funny how things change!

 

[almostawake]

For some reason, I recently read over a mock draft from 2004 and Mike Green was a later pick. He hadn't had an offensively strong year by any stretch of the imagination. The report said the team that picked him would really benefit as Green was slated to be "a reliable 2 way defender." Funny how things change!

Uh, Green was 2nd in scoring on his team, and played 13 fewer games than the guy that ended up with 5 more points than him.

He was just on a brutal team. They won 7 games all year.

 

[Mathletic]

That's why it's funny when people scout based on stats.

because stats aren't just about goals and assists, there's a context to it all. Stats are about putting a player's data in context more than anything else. Just take Weber for example. He was a rookie, and one of the youngest players of his draft class. So, you can't start comparing him to a late-brithday player who's in his 3rd year. Also, data that allow to project d-men in the NHL aren't goals and assists. So, it's useless to look at Weber's point totals and derive from that that stats are useless.

That said, there are still guys who you'd have a hard time sorting out through hard data. One of the few guys I can come up with is Tyler Kennedy.

 

[almostawake]

I'm looking for guys who, up until they were drafted (not in post-draft years, pre-draft only) had nothing but poor seasons in the CHL in terms of offensive production, but who became very good NHLers. Looking for reasonably recent examples, let's say only guys drafted from the mid 90s onwards. For example:

Shea Weber
Best CHL season pre-draft: 02/03, 2 goals, 18 points in 70 WHL games
Best NHL season to date: 08/09, 23 goals, 53 points in 81 NHL games

Milan Lucic
Best CHL season pre-draft: 05/06, 9 goals, 19 points in 62 WHL games
Best NHL season to date: 10/11, 30 goals, 59 points in 73 NHL games (and counting)


Also, is there any specific common trait to look for? Both of these guys are huge/strong, and good skaters for their size with big shots, but 2 guys is not a large sample size, let's get some more.

The clear commonality between those two is that they were WHL rookies in their draft season.

The WHL is ridiculously hard on rookies. Big guys like them have to fight so much.

 

[Joey Moss]

Mike Green and Kris Versteeg weren't particularly outstanding as CHL players as far as points are concerned.

Mike Green was almost a PPG player in Saskatoon.

 

[Issacar]

In Milan Lucic case, he was pretty strong in the SuperSeries and was even named captain of the team. I would of drafted him in the first round just because of how well he fared. He was named on the Memorial Cup all-star team and won the Stafford Smythe Memorial Trophy (MVP of the Memorial Cup).

If stats aren't everything, Milan Lucic was a pretty good example.

 

[Mathletic]

In Milan Lucic case, he was pretty strong in the SuperSeries and was even named captain of the team. I would of drafted him in the first round just because of how well he fared. He was named on the Memorial Cup all-star team and won the Stafford Smythe Memorial Trophy (MVP of the Memorial Cup).

If stats aren't everything, Milan Lucic was a pretty good example.

none of it happened in 06, it all happened in 07 and beyond

 

[Franck]

Mike Green was almost a PPG player in Saskatoon.

39 points in 60 games during your draft year doesn't exactly scream of future PPG NHL defenceman if you look strictly at the stats.

I think the purpose of this thread is to show that point production alone is not a good indication of what makes a good NHL prospect, I think Mike Green is a pretty good example of that.

 

[bberry]

Alex Goligoski - 2 assists in the USHL in his draft year.

 

[Mathletic]

Alex Goligoski - 2 assists in the USHL in his draft year.

he played 10 games there, he was an high school guy, 56 points in 26 games there

 

[hdtrax]

Uh, Green was 2nd in scoring on his team, and played 13 fewer games than the guy that ended up with 5 more points than him.

He was just on a brutal team. They won 7 games all year.

Holy crap. His 39 points were good for 2nd!? Man that's a terrrrible team.

And for the guy who said Green was a PPG in Saskatoon...give your head a shake.

Games played: 267
Points: 172

So...no it wasn't expected he would be a top offensive d-man in the NHL.

 

[Spezza]

So...no it wasn't expected he would be a top offensive d-man in the NHL.

Sure, not based on his stats. But some people thought he'd be excellent. As I recall it, McKeens in particular were heavily sold on him.

 

[Lazarrr]

Jeff Carter only put up a high of 71 points for Soo Ste. Marie Greyhounds which isn't bad but had 84 points in 08-09 in the NHL.

 

[nanzenkills]

Mike Green was almost a PPG player in Saskatoon.

Not in his draft year, that was the year after.

 

[member 30781]

I'm looking for guys who, up until they were drafted (not in post-draft years, pre-draft only) had nothing but poor seasons in the CHL in terms of offensive production, but who became very good NHLers. Looking for reasonably recent examples, let's say only guys drafted from the mid 90s onwards. For example:

Shea Weber
Best CHL season pre-draft: 02/03, 2 goals, 18 points in 70 WHL games
Best NHL season to date: 08/09, 23 goals, 53 points in 81 NHL games

Milan Lucic
Best CHL season pre-draft: 05/06, 9 goals, 19 points in 62 WHL games
Best NHL season to date: 10/11, 30 goals, 59 points in 73 NHL games (and counting)


Also, is there any specific common trait to look for? Both of these guys are huge/strong, and good skaters for their size with big shots, but 2 guys is not a large sample size, let's get some more.

Lucic's biggest downfall was his skating when he was drafted. Nobody thought he'd be as good a skater as he is today. I won't go as far to say he looked like a newborn calf on ice when compared to other top players, but his skating was pretty awful.

 

[S E P H]

Mike Green comes in mind.

 

[Reasoned Opinion]

Ovechin, Sedins, Sundin, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, Bure are some examples of guys who didn't get a single point in the CHL and have been studs at NHL level.

 

[Dutch Dreams]

Versteeg is just a steady player at every level it seems. He's been a 50-point player in junior, in the AHL AND in the NHL.

 

[cupface52]

39 points in 60 games during your draft year doesn't exactly scream of future PPG NHL defenceman if you look strictly at the stats.

I think the purpose of this thread is to show that point production alone is not a good indication of what makes a good NHL prospect, I think Mike Green is a pretty good example of that.

His team had 7 wins total, 17 less wins (38 points) then the 2nd worst team, scoring only 140 goals on the season. Green scored on nearly 30% of the teams goals, 5 less points in 13 less games then the teams leading scorer. Some people had him pegged as a top 10 pick heading into the draft.