Guys who never got a chance in the NHL

Iron Mike Sharpe

Registered User
Dec 6, 2017
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PAUL Gardner

How is it you figure that Gardner, who had five 30 goal seasons and 201 career goals, "never got a chance?" He was given chances to prove himself again and again as a first line player, but he was so one dimensional that he ended up essentially being a PP specialist, scoring 89 of his 201 goals with the man advantage. He kept getting bounced to the farm because he was lazy and a lousy skater and absolutely couldn't and wouldn't backcheck.
 

Big Phil

Registered User
Nov 2, 2003
31,703
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Steve Kariya is a name that pops up with me. Lots of nice skill, had the name tagged to him and probably was unfairly compared. But I think 5'8" was almost generous for him and teams are usually obsessed with that number, especially in the dead puck era. I get the feeling he makes the NHL today. Brandon Reid, same height, same reasons. Played excellent in the WJC for Canada but even at that time you got the feeling he was going to have a hard time being taken seriously in the NHL. I don't see how he isn't Jordan Eberle if a team gives him a chance.

Lonny Bohonos. It was too bad really and part of the blame goes to Pat Quinn here. He was 5'11", so how does a guy Joe Sakic's height get the whole "he's too small" tag on him? I didn't get it. In the 1999 playoffs he had 9 points in 9 games and finally looked like someone to play with Sundin. Then the next year he is treated like an orphaned cat. Just check out his numbers in the AHL, how is he not in the NHL regularly? In 1997 with the Canucks he had 22 points in 36 games.

Did Ramzi Abid get a fair shake in the NHL? In 1998 his draft year he had 135 points and - gasp - 266 penalty minutes. He had insane numbers in junior his last two years too but never even got a crack at the WJC. I remember his skating being an issue but that can be improved. Look at John Tavares for instance. Abid scored well in the AHL and in all honesty scored at a .50 PPG clip in the NHL over 60 games or so.

Lastly, maybe the draft report was right about Rico Fata. I remember in the 1998 draft when he was drafted it literally said on the scoreboard "great skater with limited hockey sense." It was bang on because Fata could skate like the wind at an insane level that surpassed anyone else on the ice. You noticed him right away the way you did with Cournoyer for instance. The difference is he never knew how to handle the puck at the same time. He seemed to put it together in the 1999 WJCs though. All I am saying is, did someone not work with him on his other aspects of the game? Because his speed was truly special and so much as being able to stickhandle at that speed and he would always have a roster spot. Maybe the original scouting report was right?
 
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Hobnobs

Pinko
Nov 29, 2011
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Rico Fata and Ramzi Abid got plenty of chances. Bohonos couldnt play defense at all and had plenty of chances to prove doubters wrong. I agree on Steve kariya though.
 

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
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Steve Kariya is a name that pops up with me. Lots of nice skill, had the name tagged to him and probably was unfairly compared. But I think 5'8" was almost generous for him and teams are usually obsessed with that number, especially in the dead puck era. I get the feeling he makes the NHL today. Brandon Reid, same height, same reasons. Played excellent in the WJC for Canada but even at that time you got the feeling he was going to have a hard time being taken seriously in the NHL. I don't see how he isn't Jordan Eberle if a team gives him a chance.

i remember watching both those guys with excitement. i'll say this: jordan schroeder looked better than both guys and he didn't make it even in the small guy era.

Lonny Bohonos. It was too bad really and part of the blame goes to Pat Quinn here. He was 5'11", so how does a guy Joe Sakic's height get the whole "he's too small" tag on him? I didn't get it. In the 1999 playoffs he had 9 points in 9 games and finally looked like someone to play with Sundin. Then the next year he is treated like an orphaned cat. Just check out his numbers in the AHL, how is he not in the NHL regularly? In 1997 with the Canucks he had 22 points in 36 games.

i have to think pat quinn liked the guy and gave him chances to succeed. quinn did acquire him twice.
 

alko

Registered User
Oct 20, 2004
9,348
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Slovakia
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Every star behind Iron Curtain, that didnt escape.

There was some talk here, how could Jozef Golonka be in NHL in his best years. He has the guts and his passion about the game was good to see.
 

crobro

Registered User
Aug 8, 2008
3,873
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How is it you figure that Gardner, who had five 30 goal seasons and 201 career goals, "never got a chance?" He was given chances to prove himself again and again as a first line player, but he was so one dimensional that he ended up essentially being a PP specialist, scoring 89 of his 201 goals with the man advantage. He kept getting bounced to the farm because he was lazy and a lousy skater and absolutely couldn't and wouldn't backcheck.

Thanks for clarifying I just look at his stats and think what could have been on a decent team
 

Merya

Jokerit & Finland; anti-theist
Sep 23, 2008
2,279
418
Helsinki
What was the deal with him, statswise he probably should have had a career somewhere between Rob Brown (at worst) or Luc Robitaille (at best). A bit too slow and soft with little defensive play for the NHL at that time, perhaps?
Culture shock most likely. Made worse by him being at least a semi-alcoholic and hard liquor being available freely in North America 24/7.
 

Babych44

Registered User
Sep 8, 2012
73
10
What was the deal with him, statswise he probably should have had a career somewhere between Rob Brown (at worst) or Luc Robitaille (at best). A bit too slow and soft with little defensive play for the NHL at that time, perhaps?
He had great shot, was a good skater and not soft at all. I think his problems were on mental side, gave up too early on his NHL dreams.
 

VMBM

And it didn't even bring me down
Sep 24, 2008
3,797
754
Helsinki, Finland
He had great shot, was a good skater and not soft at all. I think his problems were on mental side, gave up too early on his NHL dreams.

It could be noted that he never had much of a career on the Finnish national team either, even though there was no notable reasons for that; he would have been (mostly) available, he was arguably the best goal-scorer playing in the Finnish league etc.

Was it something to do with conditioning, drive...? I don't know.
 
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Michael Farkas

Grace Personified
Jun 28, 2006
13,352
7,833
NYC
www.HockeyProspect.com
A large majority of this thread are players that didn't deserve a shot...or got one (some?) and blew it...shouldn't we account for that? Putting up points in a lesser league is not indicative of what you can do in a better league...so, either there's really poor scouting going on or we're just finding random minor leaguers and naming them for trivial purposes...

Like, did anyone see Michel Ouellet play? Really? Nigel Dawes? Janne Pesonen? Mike Murphy was brutal from a pro perspective...

Just because you're the best at writing children's story, doesn't mean you can kind of pump out Shakespeare...
 
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Gambitman

Registered User
Jan 30, 2019
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It is interesting just how hard it is to make it to the NHL. For the most part if you are good enough I think you get a chance, but think of the 50’s and 60’s I mean there are 120 roster spots, probably 90 are secure so you are fighting for 30 spots. Take a guy like Don Cherry, 15 years in the Minors and never a shot. (Well 1 playoff game I guess.) That must have been hard.

In the 80’s and 90’s I lived in Lethbridge,Alberta and followed the WHL team there the hurricanes quite closely. In 89 they had 6 players with 100 points and 5 guys with 50 goals, Wes Walz had some success later on (he had an odd career arc) but other than him no NHL regulars on what was a stacked team. I would have thought that Jason Ruff or Mark Gregg especially with a better chance might have made it, but in reality they probably didn’t deserve it.
 

The Panther

Registered User
Mar 25, 2014
19,114
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Tokyo, Japan
Kind of surprised Guy Rouleau wasn't even drafted. I know he was short, but you'd think being MVP of the QMJHL and setting the Memorial Cup record for scoring would get you drafted and a shot at the NHL.
 

Sanf

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Sep 8, 2012
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It could be noted that he never had much of a career on the Finnish national team either, even though there was no notable reasons for that; he would have been (mostly) available, he was arguably the best goal-scorer playing in the Finnish league etc.

Was it something to do with conditioning, drive...? I don't know.

Yeah it´s curious. I have old Javanainen interview where he mentions that some of the coaches just didn´t like him. He mentions that he never said no to national team. Talks about training became maybe too serious in turn of 90´s. Maybe he wasn´t just pro enough to make it in big leagues.

There really isn´t Finn that strikes me as treated reallu unfairly or given chance.

Would have loved to see what Jorma Valtonen had done in NHL. Apparently he had decent camp in Pittsburgh, but the coaches said they didn´t have big plans.

Kai Suikkanen I believe was only Finnish point per game player in AHL before Mikko Rantanen. But that is not really the reason I mention him. He was more of mix of grit and talent. He had 4 points in four pre season games before his first season and even fought Bob McGill. Point per game player in Rochester (granted there were few more in that team too). But only got two call ups for one game stints. Not saying he would have been star, but would have loved to see him get a better chance.

As a sidenote NHL still list him as Defenceman born in Opiskelija.(Student in Finnish) :) Kai Suikkanen | Pelaajatilastot ja uutiset | NHL.com

For others... Well Tommy Burlington. The one eyed hockey star. Played in 40´s but didn´t get permision to play in NHL. I have gone through his career and I don´t believe that it´s a total myth that he could have been good player in NHL too.
 

sr edler

gold is not reality
Mar 20, 2010
11,845
6,290
Some players are just not NHL material. Fredrik Lindqvist/Bremberg (primarily of Djurgårdens IF) is a very good example. Really skilled guy who was an upper echelon SEL guy points wise and also potted 54 points in 57 AHL games with the Hamilton Bulldogs, but went 0+0 in 8 games with the Oilers in the NHL. No grit whatsoever in his game.

Also Stefan Liv. Great SEL guy but during his AHL stint was probably closer to the ECHL (played 3 games with the Toledo Storm) than the NHL.

I was surprised that Mikael Tellqvist hung around in NA for as long as he did. Came over in 01–02. Stays 5 years in Toronto/St. John's and gets 25 games with the Leafs as a back-up in 05–06. Then 3 extra years in the Arizona desert with Phoenix Coyotes (with some finals part games with the Sabres). That's 8 years hovering around. I could have told him day one he would never be a starter in the NHL.... :rolleyes:
 
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Sanf

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Sep 8, 2012
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Some players are just not NHL material. Fredrik Lindqvist/Bremberg (primarily of Djurgårdens IF) is a very good example. Really skilled guy who was an upper echelon SEL guy points wise and also potted 54 points in 57 AHL games with the Hamilton Bulldogs, but went 0+0 in 8 games with the Oilers in the NHL. No grit whatsoever in his game.

Also Stefan Liv. Great SEL guy but during his AHL stint was probably closer to the ECHL (played 3 games with the Toledo Storm) than the NHL.

I was surprised that Mikael Tellqvist hung around in NA for as long as he did. Came over in 01–02. Stays 5 years in Toronto/St. John's and gets 25 games with the Leafs as a back-up in 05–06. Then 3 extra years in the Arizona desert with Phoenix Coyotes (with some finals part games with the Sabres). That's 8 years hovering around. I could have told him day one he would never be a starter in the NHL.... :rolleyes:

Yeah I agree. Then there are others like Sami Salo. Not a junior star. Got better in Jursinov school in TPS. But was more of second third pairing D in there. Got surprising big contract to Jokerit. Was considered pretty much a "bust" there. Surprised many by going to NHL after that season. And well surprised pretty much all.
 

ShelbyZ

Registered User
Apr 8, 2015
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Also Stefan Liv. Great SEL guy but during his AHL stint was probably closer to the ECHL (played 3 games with the Toledo Storm) than the NHL.

Interestingly, Liv's path to the ECHL went: AHL => NHL => ECHL => AHL

The Red Wings re-assigned him to Toledo from the NHL club where he joined them for a 3 games in 3 nights east coast road trip, where he started all 3 games, before sending him back to GR.

IIRC, Liv's failure to catch on with the Wings was kind of an unfortunate Storm (no pun intended) of factors:

-The Red Wings were loaded with organization depth in goal. When Liv signed, they had Joey MacDonald, Drew MacIntyre and Jimmy Howard all in the system at the pro level. They actually traded away MacIntyre to make room for Liv.

-The team brought back Hasek as starter, and at the start of that season they were absolutely paranoid about the 41YO (who missed the last chunk of the previous season with an injury) tweaking something by playing back to back nights, or going in off the bench. To remedy this, they kept MacDonald on the NHL roster basically just to sit on the bench if Osgood started instead of Hasek. So with three goalies on the NHL club, it meant they weren't going to need to recall a goalie from the farm as much, which meant Liv would likely be stuck platooning with Howard for most of the year. Live was actually recalled for 6 games early in the season by the Red Wings when Osgood went down, but it was just to take MacDonald's spot as #3. He was a healthy scratch for 4 games and sat on the bench on the 2nd of back to backs when MacDonald started.

-The Griffins had a down year after Kopecky, Hudler and Filppula graduated to the NHL team and a lot of the AAAA guys from 05-06 moved on.

Had Liv hung around in NA for another season, he might've adjusted to the smaller ice and had a better shot as the Wings had lost MacDonald and only carried two goalies for 07/08. They ended up needing a cheap back up for 08/09, which I'm sure Liv would've gotten consideration for with a strong 07/08 in the AHL. However, I'm sure he made much better money returning to Europe than he would've playing another year mostly in the AHL.
 

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