News Article: Guerin and Botterill have interviewed for Sabres GM job (Botterill Hired by Buffalo)

[clefty]

The only thing we really know Guerin had a strong influence on was the trade that saw us shipping out a 23 year old d-man that's 6'4", skates supremely well, was physical, and had a good outlet pass, for a 31 year old never-was that we traded for a 5th rounder a couple seasons prior. Use as much hindsight as you'd like to try and defend the deal, but to this day that trade's still a joke. From several reports, Guerin had a strong influence/say with regard to that deal.

Do we know that? Really know that?

This is what I'm saying. I don't know where this idea came from, but it's been so oft-repeated that it's become fait accompli around here without anyone really questioning it.

Lets say it's all true. Trading Despres was 100% Guerin's idea. JR still had to agree to it, still had to initiate the trade call. He's the one running the show here, so how about a little responsibility his way? And if Jason Botterill was so adamantly against it, which has also been assumed as absolute, well then he must have done a pretty terrible job of selling that idea to the boss if JR chose to go with the junior assistant who'd been on the job less than a year over the guy who'd been an assistant for seven years at that point. And lest we forget Tom Fitzgerald was still on staff at that time.

Whatever hand he had in that trade, and he probably had some, it was an organizational mistake and I don't understand why it must fall on Guerin's shoulders. I also don't see why that based on one trade, in what has already been a six year career working with the team, Guerin should be stigmatized forever as a substandard future option for a General Manager. Guerin is also said to have had a notable hand in scouting and recommending Conor Sheary, but you scarcely hear about that.

It could be. But what credentials does Guerin really have that makes him a good fit to be a GM? I think it's safe to say there's plenty of better options out there with tons more front office and GM experience.

Ha, he's getting those credentials and experience by being an assistant. By the time Guerin is in a serious position to take over as a General Manager, whether that's here or elsewhere, he'll have had maybe five or six years of being an assistant, and nearly ten years of working in the front office/development department of an NHL team. That's more than a lot of other people have.

This post reads like we're going to make him our GM tomorrow.

The same could be said for the positive sentiment about Botterill, though.

We don't really know what he's done, or is capable of doing, that's good. I mean, we know he's the GM of the baby Pens and they've had success, but it's not hard to throw a dozen two-way deals at AHL/NHL tweeners on July 1st and hope a few stick. Luring Chad Ruhwedel is a far cry from Kevin Shattenkirk.

Fletcher had success with the baby Pens too and Shero had success with the Admirals, but that didn't make them good NHL GMs.

Doesn't this kind of aid my point, though? I mean, I'm not saying that Guerin is - or isn't - anything.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I think a good portion of us that were upset with the deal definitely held JR accountable for being the guy to finally pull the trigger.

Again, it's all rumors. Easy to accept rumors when you read between the lines of Guerin's connection to the '09 guys (like Lovejoy), his personal connection to the players ("Hey, I'm still one of the guys!"), and seeing JR's demeanor during that post deadline presser.

As for the "organization thought he was a problem" long-term thing, never understood it. From what's been floated around, he's a lazy alcoholic with a crippling gambling addiction. Yet, several players on the team were notably sad to see him go, even with their old chum Lovejoy coming back.

I dunno. The whole trade stunk to me. Terrible asset management to move a guy like Despres for a guy like Lovejoy. I don't think anyone would've been upset if Despres was moved for a significant piece that would have a long-term impact on the team, but Lovejoy was never that--even if we managed to win the Cup shortly after the deal was made. /shrug

Not gonna reopen this can of worms though. It's in the past so whatever. We all know where we stand.

 

[66-30-33]

In Mullen's powerplay's they utilize the net front presence much better, it makes a guy like Hornqvist more lethal in his set up, you'd see Patric having career numbers. We've seen it a lot with Simmonds and Voracek on the Flyers.

Let's hope we get Mullen then for this group if Tocchet goes. He knows how to run an extremly effective PP. That's what we need if we want to destroy out opponents completly.

 

[Jacob]

Mike Kitchen would be a good replacement if Botterill brings Tocchet or Martin to Buffalo. And Sullivan knows him from his year in Chicago.

 

[clefty]

I think a good portion of us that were upset with the deal definitely held JR accountable for being the guy to finally pull the trigger.

Again, it's all rumors. Easy to accept rumors when you read between the lines of Guerin's connection to the '09 guys (like Lovejoy), his personal connection to the players ("Hey, I'm still one of the guys!"), and seeing JR's demeanor during that post deadline presser.

As for the "organization thought he was a problem" long-term thing, never understood it. From what's been floated around, he's a lazy alcoholic with a crippling gambling addiction. Yet, several players on the team were notably sad to see him go, even with their old chum Lovejoy coming back.

I dunno. The whole trade stunk to me. Terrible asset management to move a guy like Despres for a guy like Lovejoy. I don't think anyone would've been upset if Despres was moved for a significant piece that would have a long-term impact on the team, but Lovejoy was never that--even if we managed to win the Cup shortly after the deal was made. /shrug

Not gonna reopen this can of worms though. It's in the past so whatever. We all know where we stand.

Most of this is a response to a post giving the trade a seal of approval, which almost nobody here has done, ever. A total truism.

I mean, you say it's in the past yet it's referred to or implied to every single time Guerin's name is mentioned.

I will address this idea about Guerin's connection to Lovejoy. It's tenuous, at best. From what I can see they were teammates for all of 12 games.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Most of this is a response to a post giving the trade a seal of approval, which almost nobody here has done, ever. A total truism.

I mean, you say it's in the past yet it's referred to or implied to every single time Guerin's name is mentioned.

I will address this idea about Guerin's connection to Lovejoy. It's tenuous, at best. From what I can see they were teammates for all of 12 games.

Most (all) of this is a response to Botterill landing a job, deservedly so, and because of that people are discussing the next logical guy in line after our extremely aged GM steps down. That'd likely be Guerin, who seems like a guy too attached to the guys in the room, too driven by emotion, and was linked (rightfully or wrongly so) to one of the worst trades, asset management-wise, in this team's recent history.

I can assure you, I haven't brought up the trade every single time Guerin's name is mentioned. But if it seems that way to you, or my posts/discussion annoy you, feel free to ignore me.

 

[billybudd]

Do we know that? Really know that?

This is what I'm saying. I don't know where this idea came from, but it's been so oft-repeated that it's become fait accompli around here without anyone really questioning it.

Lets say it's all true. Trading Despres was 100% Guerin's idea. JR still had to agree to it, still had to initiate the trade call. He's the one running the show here, so how about a little responsibility his way? And if Jason Botterill was so adamantly against it, which has also been assumed as absolute, well then he must have done a pretty terrible job of selling that idea to the boss if JR chose to go with the junior assistant who'd been on the job less than a year over the guy who'd been an assistant for seven years at that point. And lest we forget Tom Fitzgerald was still on staff at that time.

Whatever hand he had in that trade, and he probably had some, it was an organizational mistake and I don't understand why it must fall on Guerin's shoulders. I also don't see why that based on one trade, in what has already been a six year career working with the team, Guerin should be stigmatized forever as a substandard future option for a General Manager. Guerin is also said to have had a notable hand in scouting and recommending Conor Sheary, but you scarcely hear about that.




Ha, he's getting those credentials and experience by being an assistant. By the time Guerin is in a serious position to take over as a General Manager, whether that's here or elsewhere, he'll have had maybe five or six years of being an assistant, and nearly ten years of working in the front office/development department of an NHL team. That's more than a lot of other people have.

This post reads like we're going to make him our GM tomorrow.



Doesn't this kind of aid my point, though? I mean, I'm not saying that Guerin is - or isn't - anything.

Not to mention the same squishy whispers of Guerin being behind the Despres trade identified Botterill as behind the potentially worse Winnik trade.

Lovejoy was at least a right handed D (rare) with a history of stepping up in the playoffs (in Anaheim) who ended up doing exactly that for us.

Winnik is a unibrow moron with 3 points (0 goals) in 60 playoff games whose entire skill set consists of scowling at people.

Bottom line: we don't really know what Guerin's contributions are, good or ill.

 

[Whakahere]

Not to mention the same squishy whispers of Guerin being behind the Despres trade identified Botterill as behind the potentially worse Winnik trade.

Lovejoy was at least a right handed D (rare) with a history of stepping up in the playoffs (in Anaheim) who ended up doing exactly that for us.

Winnik is a unibrow moron with 3 points (0 goals) in 60 playoff games whose entire skill set consists of scowling at people.

Bottom line: we don't really know what Guerin's contributions are, good or ill.

I'm with you on this one. Not only that but Guerin has been a part of a very successful team building process that he must have been involved in. Humans make mistakes, it's how we get better. Sully wasn't a great coach in Boston but has improved.

Right now, I'll hold my judgement and see if he lands a GM job. If he does, then I will judge him.

 

[Night Shift]

Let the Fatty Orr trade be a lesson to Guerin. Because, if Guerin is going to make ill advise trades because he lets his emotions get the best of him, he won't be a GM in the league for very long. And for Guerin, I think he has to know holding his first GM position is an audition for any future GM positions. He will have to look for a different branch (coaching perhaps) if he proves himself an amature.

 

[Asuna]

He was only with the team a year and a half then quickly ascended the office ranks amidst some turmoil. Not a fan of the circumstance.

he was hired in 2011 as the player development coach. he was promoted to assistant gm in 2014.

dont' really see anything suspicious there.

in other news, rutherford said he pictures a larger role for gonchar now. wonder what that means exactly.

i wonder if recchi gets promoted to assistant gm, and gonchar takes over his player development role

 

[Peat]

Most (all) of this is a response to Botterill landing a job, deservedly so, and because of that people are discussing the next logical guy in line after our extremely aged GM steps down. That'd likely be Guerin, who seems like a guy too attached to the guys in the room, too driven by emotion, and was linked (rightfully or wrongly so) to one of the worst trades, asset management-wise, in this team's recent history.

I can assure you, I haven't brought up the trade every single time Guerin's name is mentioned. But if it seems that way to you, or my posts/discussion annoy you, feel free to ignore me.

Mild tangent, but I take Botterill's move to be a sign that extremely aged GM won't step down any time soon. Famous last words of course, but it makes sense that the organisation would have kept the Heir Apparent if they thought he'd be needed in a season or two.

 

[JTG]

I don't think Tocchet or Martin would be the right fit in Buffalo.

Would Lindy Ruff do a second tour of duty there?

 

[Corvidae]

he was hired in 2011 as the player development coach. he was promoted to assistant gm in 2014.

dont' really see anything suspicious there.

in other news, rutherford said he pictures a larger role for gonchar now. wonder what that means exactly.

i wonder if recchi gets promoted to assistant gm, and gonchar takes over his player development role

If you don't see anything suspicious, you're not looking hard enough. I'm kidding. None of this is really based on anything other than "a hunch" with minor factoids of varying levels of accuracy to support them. It's not what I'd call a major concern, even by message board standards. I'm just interneting.

I can see Gonchar excelling in that PD roll, but with a similar level of factual support that I have for disliking Guerin in his roll. It's tough to judge anyone between scouts and ultimately head GM, but I'm going to do it anyway cause 'Merica.

 

[JTG]

We talk about Jacques Martin a lot with our defensemen...I'd imagine Sarge plays a huge part in that as well. For a guy like Schultz, Gonchar would seem to be a gold mine to have around.

I'm just really not a fan of letting players run a team. It very rarely goes well. It works for Yzerman because he is supremely intelligent. It's going to work for Sid or Toews if they decide to go that route after they are all done. I just think the results are there to see that it doesn't typically work.

 

[Jacob]

I think Martin actually has more to do with the overall system. There were some minor but obvious changes to D-zone coverage when he was brought in under Bylsma, and when we play that stifling shut-down game with a lead late in a game that reminds me of early-2000s Ottawa.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Housley makes too much sense for Buffalo, imo. He has done great with Nashville's defense. And before you say, "gee, I think I could do wonders with that blueline," remember that both Ekholm and Ellis have improved significantly under Housley. And Subban's game has become quieter, but in a good way. Josi is Josi. And we forget that they also have a third pairing. Both Yannick Weber and Matt Irwin were out of the NHL, basically, before Housley took control of their games.

AND, Housley coached the U.S. WJC team to gold a few years ago. And he was a great Sabre.

I'd imagine Botterill will select Housley once the Preds are done.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Housley makes too much sense for Buffalo, imo. He has done great with Nashville's defense. And before you say, "gee, I think I could do wonders with that blueline," remember that both Ekholm and Ellis have improved significantly under Housley. And Subban's game has become quieter, but in a good way. Josi is Josi. And we forget that they also have a third pairing. Both Yannick Weber and Matt Irwin were out of the NHL, basically, before Housley took control of their games.

AND, Housley coached the U.S. WJC team to gold a few years ago. And he was a great Sabre.

I'd imagine Botterill will select Housley once the Preds are done.

Yeah, I would say Phil is on his short list. He's done a fantastic job (Gonchar has worked extensively with Schultz this year too and he's blossomed).

The coaching aspect of how good Ellis and others have been is what cracks me up when people complain about drafting so and so. Sometimes you need the influence of a great coach to get you to where you're heading, faster. PH is a very good developmental coach and it's what Botterill is looking for. The only thing is, Housley has worked extensively with defensemen and while the Sabres are a young team, outside of Ristolainen, he's not exactly molding the next Nashville Predators on defense there.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

We talk about Jacques Martin a lot with our defensemen...I'd imagine Sarge plays a huge part in that as well. For a guy like Schultz, Gonchar would seem to be a gold mine to have around.

I'm just really not a fan of letting players run a team. It very rarely goes well. It works for Yzerman because he is supremely intelligent. It's going to work for Sid or Toews if they decide to go that route after they are all done. I just think the results are there to see that it doesn't typically work.

Justin Schultz has talked about, extensively mind you, how much Sergei Gonchar has worked with him and helped him get to where he is this season, he's the bigger reason he's exploded into a 50pt defenseman, not Martin.

Credit for Schultz's success is all Gonchar's work as a developmental coach for defensemen and Schultz using that knowledge to do what he's done.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

You have to think that a defenseman has to love the idea of playing for the Pens. How many careers has this team rescued?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

You have to think that a defenseman has to love the idea of playing for the Pens. How many careers has this team rescued?

Niskanen, Cole, Schultz...not a lot but it feels like this team has rescued a lot of careers, doesn't it?

Maybe back in the day with guys like Jackman too?

 

[#1GuinFan]

Niskanen, Cole, Schultz...not a lot but it feels like this team has rescued a lot of careers, doesn't it?

Maybe back in the day with guys like Jackman too?

Could add a guy like taylor chorney to the list too, got himself a one-way contract after being here

 

[shureshot66]

Botterill said there have been “no restrictions” on who he can take from Pittsburgh to Buffalo, with one caveat: no lateral moves. So, if he’s taking anyone, it has to be a promotion. He wouldn’t comment on specific names, but two are making the rounds. One is former Ottawa and Florida GM Randy Sexton, who is the Penguins’ director of amateur scouting. The other is Derek Clancey, director of pro scouting.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-st-louis-target-eberle-scoring-help/

 

[Peat]

Yeah, I would say Phil is on his short list. He's done a fantastic job (Gonchar has worked extensively with Schultz this year too and he's blossomed).

The coaching aspect of how good Ellis and others have been is what cracks me up when people complain about drafting so and so. Sometimes you need the influence of a great coach to get you to where you're heading, faster. PH is a very good developmental coach and it's what Botterill is looking for. The only thing is, Housley has worked extensively with defensemen and while the Sabres are a young team, outside of Ristolainen, he's not exactly molding the next Nashville Predators on defense there.

Arguably that makes a great defensive coach even more important. Buffalo will probably have to significantly upskill a few guys to get a strong enough defence.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Could add a guy like taylor chorney to the list too, got himself a one-way contract after being here

Looks like Cole and Ruh may be added to the list. One was thought of AHL fodder and he's logging big minutes in a Conference Final. Other was seen as a bottom pair defenseman. Neither will be 1/2's in this league, but where they are considering they were fringe NHLer's is pretty good

 

[#1GuinFan]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-st-louis-target-eberle-scoring-help/

So we could potentially have both our directors of scouting poached... I would be putting a restriction on that. Maybe say he can take one person with him.