News Article: Guerin and Botterill have interviewed for Sabres GM job (Botterill Hired by Buffalo)

[Jacob]

This Guerin sentiment feels a lot to me like repeating something over and over until it becomes true. It's not based on anything sound, really.

The same could be said for the positive sentiment about Botterill, though.

We don't really know what he's done, or is capable of doing, that's good. I mean, we know he's the GM of the baby Pens and they've had success, but it's not hard to throw a dozen two-way deals at AHL/NHL tweeners on July 1st and hope a few stick. Luring Chad Ruhwedel is a far cry from Kevin Shattenkirk.

Fletcher had success with the baby Pens too and Shero had success with the Admirals, but that didn't make them good NHL GMs.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

The only thing we really know Guerin had a strong influence on was the trade that saw us shipping out a 23 year old d-man that's 6'4", skates supremely well, was physical, and had a good outlet pass, for a 31 year old never-was that we traded for a 5th rounder a couple seasons prior. Use as much hindsight as you'd like to try and defend the deal, but to this day that trade's still a joke. From several reports, Guerin had a strong influence/say with regard to that deal.

That's not a guy I want running this team. Especially considering he's notoriously close and loyal to guys he played with while he was here. The only upside to that is by the time Guerin likely takes over, the only guys left will be Sid, Geno and Letang.

 

[Asuna]

The only thing we really know Guerin had a strong influence on was the trade that saw us shipping out a 23 year old d-man that's 6'4", skates supremely well, was physical, and had a good outlet pass, for a 31 year old never-was that we traded for a 5th rounder a couple seasons prior. Use as much hindsight as you'd like to try and defend the deal, but to this day that trade's still a joke. From several reports, Guerin had a strong influence/say with regard to that deal.

That's not a guy I want running this team. Especially considering he's notoriously close and loyal to guys he played with while he was here. The only upside to that is by the time Guerin likely takes over, the only guys left will be Sid, Geno and Letang.

or was it just from a message board insider who hasn't been right on everything he's said.......?

 

[wgknestrick]

The only thing we really know Guerin had a strong influence on was the trade that saw us shipping out a 23 year old d-man that's 6'4", skates supremely well, was physical, and had a good outlet pass, for a 31 year old never-was that we traded for a 5th rounder a couple seasons prior. Use as much hindsight as you'd like to try and defend the deal, but to this day that trade's still a joke. From several reports, Guerin had a strong influence/say with regard to that deal.

That's not a guy I want running this team. Especially considering he's notoriously close and loyal to guys he played with while he was here. The only upside to that is by the time Guerin likely takes over, the only guys left will be Sid, Geno and Letang.

#1 No hard evidence to point to his involvement other than he was employed by PIT during the trade.

#2 Hard to argue that the trade wasn't hugely beneficial in both short and long term. Sure, hindsight is 20/20, but PIT might have had some indication that Despres was in high risk territory. You are also underrating Lovejoy and his value as well.

The trade didn't look great from the outside in regards to "future", but PIT may have known more than us about Despres (which was a well known rumor that they didn't think much of him longterm).

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I mean, watch the JR presser after the Despres deal again. JR's noticeably uncomfortable, as if he knows he pulled the trigger on a deal he wasn't 100% sure of. He talks about how "they all" got together and an idea was pitched to him in the morning that wasn't talked about prior. Murray in his presser even talks about how he was surprised JR came to him offering Despres for Lovejoy. It's pretty clear and easy to read between the lines that it wasn't exactly JR's idea, nor was he confident or comfortable with it after it was made.

As for the hindsight thing, I don't think you can dismiss that factor, man. Despres was tasked with making a rotting corpse in Scuderi look serviceable the season he was ultimately moved--essentially his rookie season with regard to his workload after Bylsma tossed him around for a few years.

Sure, we won a Cup with Lovejoy but the dude was very low on the list of important factors leading to our success. Despres also played lights out for the Ducks in their run in the post season after the trade; top pairing minutes, big responsibility, great play. I mean, it blows my mind how anyone can still argue the deal as if Despres wouldn't have been able to at least do Lovejoy's job adequately. The kid was a pretty high potential prospect before Bylsma got a hold of him, and he went on to play really well after he was moved. A devastating concussion essentially ended his career, but that has no real bearing on the situation at hand. /shrug

 

[Asuna]

even if the rumors are true, one bad deal automatically means he'll be a **** GM forever?

it's not even assumed that guerin would take over for rutherford. maybe karmanos would

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

It's less about the Despres deal in a vacuum (though it was a very bad deal) and more about the thought that Guerin allows his emotions and personal connection to dictate his decision making regarding deals as a GM.

 

[The Old Master]

even if the rumors are true, one bad deal automatically means he'll be a **** GM forever?

it's not even assumed that guerin would take over for rutherford. maybe karmanos would

any one that could make that deal.......should never be seen in a front office anywhere.
edit; well maybe Cleveland.

 

[Asuna]

once again...that was one time. one time doesn't make a trend.

but that's speculation regardless.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Like you've said, it's not been confirmed so it's pretty speculative, but it's pretty easy to read between the lines. Guerin's never struck me as an intellectual or tactician either, more of an emotionally driven guy. I'm not sure that's a quality you look for in a GM, especially for a team with Cup aspirations for the foreseeable future with Sid & Geno.

 

[Asuna]

that's fair. i have no idea how guerin acts or what his personality is so i can't comment on that.

i can only hope he's learned some good lessons from shero and rutherford, if one day he does take over the GM job.

 

[Malkinstheman]

I think its more likely he gets poached by a different team rather than him waiting around for another 3-5 years.

 

[Zero Pucks]

or was it just from a message board insider who hasn't been right on everything he's said.......?

It's speculation we're basing that deal off of I guess. But that trade also put us way to close to the cap and caused us to not be able to call up any defensemen when there were injuries. We could only dress 5 defensemen during the home stretch of that regular season. I highly doubt a capologist like Botterill would of allowed that to happen. I think Guerin has a loooooong ways to go until he should even be considered a GM anywhere. Just because you were a good player doesn't mean you'll automatically be a good GM. Look at Sakic right now and the **** show Colorado is.

 

[Asuna]

It's speculation we're basing that deal off of I guess. But that trade also put us way to close to the cap and caused us to not be able to call up any defensemen when there were injuries. We could only dress 5 defensemen during the home stretch of that regular season. I highly doubt a capologist like Botterill would of allowed that to happen. I think Guerin has a loooooong ways to go until he should even be considered a GM anywhere. Just because you were a good player doesn't mean you'll automatically be a good GM. Look at Sakic right now and the **** show Colorado is.

conversely, yzerman is a pretty good gm.

i'm not saying guerin is going to be a great gm or anything. i just find it odd that people are totally dismissing him based on speculation and rumors.

in any instance, he's on the right track to becoming a gm. player development coach. assistant gm. this year he's part of the management team for the 2017 International Ice Hockey Federation Men's World Championship.

gettin dat experience

 

[Riptide]

NHL and other professional leagues already have questionable "rights" over their employees from the draft system and AHL age rules. Anything limiting execs rights to terminate their job to go to another employer (in an extremely limited field) is questionable at best from a legal standpoint. It's effectively a form of automatic non-compete (which is different state to state, and in CAN).

I also loathe the fact that teams had to compensate teams with other forms of indentured servants (draft picks) thus limiting movement and competitiveness. If you transpose these rules and practices to other industries you see how ridiculous they are from a labor viewpoint.

Except that those limitations on movement are already there. Pittsburgh could have just as easily refused to allow Bylsma, Shero or Hynes to interview, let alone sign with a new team. As I said before, I don't think it's right with Bylsma and Shero as they were fired, and only an ******* would prevent them from trying to get another gig - even if they're still getting paid by the Penguins (or were). But for Hynes, preventing him from advancing was entirely within Rutherford's rights, Hynes had a contract, and getting compensation for him to be hired away from the org absolutely should be a thing.

You don't want to be restricted in your movement? Don't sign multi year contracts - but we all know why everyone wants those.

(just speculating)....There were most likely legal issues about this rule is why it was scrapped. I am almost positive that it could not be enforced in CA, but may have been enforceable in other states that aren't labor friendly (like our lovely PA). This leaves the NHL in a tough position with unfair rules that only affect certain teams based on their location.

Disagree. If that was the case, it would have come up when Edmonton was forced to pony up for PC. The rule was scrapped because Bettman hated the idea.

 

[Zero Pucks]

conversely, yzerman is a pretty good gm.

i'm not saying guerin is going to be a great gm or anything. i just find it odd that people are totally dismissing him based on speculation and rumors.

in any instance, he's on the right track to becoming a gm. player development coach. assistant gm. this year he's part of the management team for the 2017 International Ice Hockey Federation Men's World Championship.

gettin dat experience

Yzerman had some of the best mentors you could ask for when it comes to being a GM with Nill and Holland. I'm not saying Guerin destined to be a bad GM either, he could be on track to becoming good one someday. But if JR would retire next year, his resume doesn't inspire a ton of confidence in me for him to get the job just yet.

 

[Asuna]

Yzerman had some of the best mentors you could ask for when it comes to being a GM with Nill and Holland. I'm not saying Guerin destined to be a bad GM either, he could be on track to becoming good one someday. But if JR would retire next year, his resume doesn't inspire a ton of confidence me for him to get the job just yet.

i think shero and rutherford are pretty good too

but yeah. it certainly wouldn't be ideal for guerin to take over just yet. i think rutherford will stay his entire contract though

 

[Zero Pucks]

i think shero and rutherford are pretty good too

but yeah. it certainly wouldn't be ideal for guerin to take over just yet. i think rutherford will stay his entire contract though

I think one thing for sure, with Botterill and Fitzgerald now gone, is we'll see more of Guerin's influence on the team now. So hopefully that means we'll see more Scuderi for Daley type deals and less Despres for Lovejoy.

 

[Asuna]

I think one thing for sure, with Botterill and Fitzgerald now gone, is we'll see more of Guerin's influence on the team now. So hopefully that means we'll see more Scuderi for Daley type deals and less Despres for Lovejoy.

yep. it'll be interesting to see. saw somewhere that karmanos will probably take over botterill's cap duties too

 

[Jacob]

For now I'm fine with giving Guerin the chance to manage the baby Pens and handle some of the lesser contract negotiations and signings in the offseason. Not much harm can be done there.

#2 Hard to argue that the trade wasn't hugely beneficial in both short and long term. Sure, hindsight is 20/20, but PIT might have had some indication that Despres was in high risk territory.

High risk for getting elbowed in the head and trying to return too early?

 

[Corvidae]

that's fair. i have no idea how guerin acts or what his personality is so i can't comment on that.

i can only hope he's learned some good lessons from shero and rutherford, if one day he does take over the GM job.

You would definitely hope since his only creds prior are being a player on the 09 Cup team. That's kept quite a few here long past their point of usefulness and to a great detriment, which I'll admit is the #1 reason I'm not on board with him in his position. Is it a good reason? Meh. Not really but I've seen worse.

 

[Asuna]

You would definitely hope since his only creds prior are being a player on the 09 Cup team. That's kept quite a few here long past their point of usefulness and to a great detriment, which I'll admit is the #1 reason I'm not on board with him in his position. Is it a good reason? Meh. Not really but I've seen worse.

teams hire former players all the time so i don't really see the problem there.

the pstd from keeping players from that 09 team though....i get that

 

[Joejosh999]

Letting Geurin try his hand in WBS strikes me as a good idea.
I'm more concerned that maybe Butterball was giving JR good advice and now he's gone.
Also that he's not there to take the reins w JR steps down. I was hoping he'd take over.

Just the info you get between the lines on the Despres trade makes me want Geurin nowhere near the Pens front office.

No amount of lipstick applied by DK can fix that face.

 

[Jacob]

teams hire former players all the time so i don't really see the problem there.

It's probably hard to lure former players into front office spots if they have no history in or ties to the city.

 

[Corvidae]

teams hire former players all the time so i don't really see the problem there.

the pstd from keeping players from that 09 team though....i get that

He was only with the team a year and a half then quickly ascended the office ranks amidst some turmoil. Not a fan of the circumstance.