Value of: Gudas/Simmonds package deal to Toronto

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Starat327

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Actually, i think it would end the conversation....quickly in fact.

It pains me to say this because hes such a fan favorite and a great guy, but Simmonds value may be one of the most overrated things on this board. This isnt to say he doesnt have value, becuase He does. Hes a good, pretty consistent 30 goal scorer, and one of the(if not the) best net front presences in the league. But hes not a superstar by any means. I think asking for a later first + is realistic, because GMs sometimes overpay for those character guys - especially ones that are actually decent hockey players. But Simmonds isnt a guy who is bringing back a top prospect++ as a trade deadline rental.

The problem with this thread is that if the Flyers are moving both Gudas and Simmonds, they want a quality piece in the return. Leafs dont really have that quality piece that the Flyers would want - or at least, not one they feel comfortable sparing, anyway. Leafs have a lot of good mid 6 prospects but they just dont fill a need for the Flyers, as were kinda full on those as well.
 
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Liferleafer

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It pains me to say this because hes such a fan favorite and a great guy, but Simmonds value may be one of the most overrated things on this board. This isnt to say he doesnt have value, becuase He does. Hes a good, pretty consistent 30 goal scorer, and one of the(if not the) best net front presences in the league. But hes not a superstar by any means. I think asking for a later first + is realistic, because GMs sometimes overpay for those character guys - especially ones that are actually decent hockey players. But Simmonds isnt a guy who is bringing back a top prospect++ as a trade deadline rental.

The problem with this thread is that if the Flyers are moving both Gudas and Simmonds, they want a quality piece in the return. Leafs dont really have that quality piece that the Flyers would want - or at least, not one they feel comfortable sparing, anyway. Leafs have a lot of good mid 6 prospects but they just dont fill a need for the Flyers, as were kinda full on those as well.
I agree. Here would be my break down if they were dealt separately at the deadline:
Simmonds=1st+prospect/roster player (as teams would need to open up a spot)
Gudas=2nd+3rd (or max 2nd+2nd/prospect)

So when talking about Toronto acquiring both, it would look like:
To TO
Simmonds
Gudas

To Philly
1st 2019
2nd 2019
3rd 2019/Bracco level prospect (or 2nd 2020)
Brown (roster spot reasons)
??possibly another prospect or St Louis 4th??

Now, with all that said, i really don't want to move our 1st for a forward rental....but i would target Gudas for sure.
 

Critical13

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Sandin is our hope for a Sanheim type player. Would you consider trading early Sanheim+top 6 winger+1st for Simmonds+Gudas? I doubt it.

Simmonds to Toronto makes so much sense but I can't see any NHL team giving up a Kapanen/Sandin type asset for him. Something around our 1st+ would be competitive with other offers I am guessing, based on the Nash and McDonagh trades last year.
 

Starat327

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I agree. Here would be my break down if they were dealt separately at the deadline:
Simmonds=1st+prospect/roster player (as teams would need to open up a spot)
Gudas=2nd+3rd (or max 2nd+2nd/prospect)

So when talking about Toronto acquiring both, it would look like:
To TO
Simmonds
Gudas

To Philly
1st 2019
2nd 2019
3rd 2019/Bracco level prospect (or 2nd 2020)
Brown (roster spot reasons)
??possibly another prospect or St Louis 4th??

Now, with all that said, i really don't want to move our 1st for a forward rental....but i would target Gudas for sure.

I think the values are close (weve talked about them in multiple threads) but the issue from our end is that more picks arent really helpful. That isnt to say we wont sell players for picks - i just think that we'd be better off targeting a helpful 'now' piece if were moving both of them in the same deal. Flyers are looking to move out of the rebuild process. I suppose the picks can be then flipped for a now piece if need be, but that makes the discussion very much more difficult.

I'm ok wit Brown as part of a return for Simmonds. We dont need a top 6 RW (konencny/Voracek), and while NAK has looked good, some flexibility there wouldnt hurt. I'd be ok with Brown and NAK next year as our bottom 6 RWs. If i understand it correctly, Brown does fairly well on the PK as well, which would help, assuming we actually get a working pk System.
 

Slyfox

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Wait why are trading for a declining power forward soon to be UFA and giving up cost-controlled assets? This is the third year and we are planning on competing for a while. There's no need to start emptying the cupboard to try to win right now.
 

Tripod

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Wait why are trading for a declining power forward soon to be UFA and giving up cost-controlled assets? This is the third year and we are planning on competing for a while. There's no need to start emptying the cupboard to try to win right now.
Because the cap space you have this year, will never be better. And that itself is an asset.

And you won't empty the cupboard, but you will 100% add to your team between now and the deadline to try and increase your chances at the cup. That's what contenders do.
 

justafan22

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Jun 22, 2014
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Because the cap space you have this year, will never be better. And that itself is an asset.

And you won't empty the cupboard, but you will 100% add to your team between now and the deadline to try and increase your chances at the cup. That's what contenders do.

Gudas is more important for what they need, but yes
 

captainpaxil

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Dec 2, 2008
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I agree. Here would be my break down if they were dealt separately at the deadline:
Simmonds=1st+prospect/roster player (as teams would need to open up a spot)
Gudas=2nd+3rd (or max 2nd+2nd/prospect)

So when talking about Toronto acquiring both, it would look like:
To TO
Simmonds
Gudas

To Philly
1st 2019
2nd 2019
3rd 2019/Bracco level prospect (or 2nd 2020)
Brown (roster spot reasons)
??possibly another prospect or St Louis 4th??

Now, with all that said, i really don't want to move our 1st for a forward rental....but i would target Gudas for sure.

Korshkov and a 2nd for gudas with a conditional pick if he doesn't come over.
Brown and a 1st for Simmonds has been frequently discussed and seems fair to both sides.

While an acceptable return i don't see anything sexy in either and think the leafs could be outbid. Given the flyers prospect depth the point of dealing both to the same team would be to parlay the smaller pieces into a legit asset
 

seanlinden

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Apr 28, 2009
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1st + Brown for Simmonds at the TDL

Nothing more

This is probably the right deal... Simmonds for a 1st and a young roster player that has scored 20 goals.

From a Leafs POV, they probably won't miss Brown too much given that Simmonds would push him even further down the lineup. Admittedly, I'd be wary of this deal regardless, simply because it doesn't fix the defensive issues which IMO are much bigger, and Toronto can't retain either unless he trades Nylander (which really isn't a bad idea if you can get a Parayko or Pesce).

There is also the concern over -- who really wants to sign Simmonds as a UFA this summer? He'll be 30 years old, and unlikely to age well.

WRT to packaging Gudas and Simmonds together, I think it's important to realize doing that is unlikely to cause a much better asset to be included... it will simply be more quantity.

Maybe the deal would be something like Brown, 1st, one of Rosen/Borgman, and Branco for Simmonds and Gudas.
 

JojoTheWhale

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May 22, 2008
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Simmonds for a 1st + lesser asset X is really the simple deal that makes sense as others have said, with plenty of wiggle room in both directions on X due to how many teams are interested, how Simmonds looks in the near future, etc. These fanciful ~8 asset trades are incredibly difficult to pull off.

Also, hard pass on Zaitsev in any form. No problem at all taking salary back, but that's just too much term for not enough quality.
 

koyvoo

Registered User
Nov 8, 2014
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People are confusing toughness levels pertaining to today’s NHL.

The leafs don’t necessarily need more players that will fight and hurt or even intimidate their opponents.

That’s the wrong type of toughness they lack. They do need more players willing to take that punishment though. Willing to take hard hits and even possibly risk injury to make a play.

You don’t need a big goony team to win, but you definitely need warriors though.
 

The Blueprint

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Dec 4, 2018
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I don't see the leafs moving any player off the roster to bring in a guy like Simmonds.

Especially a guy like Johnsson or kappy who are arguably more effective NHLers at this point, younger, paid less, can PK.

Simmonds isn't who he was a few years ago. He's 30 and those types of players tend to fall off in the later years.
I'd love to add his toughness to the leafs but I see it more as a late 1st or a 2nd + b prospect type mov
 

duffy9748

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Nov 26, 2007
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I agree that Simmonds isn’t worth what GM’s likely think, but he’s going to get a big return from a contender at the deadline. No way would I include Kapanen if I’m Toronto, even if Gudas is included, but somebody will beat Brown+1st+.

He’s not the same player, but Simmonds would still be a great addition to any contender in need of team toughness and an elite net front presence on the power play.

Simmonds+Gudas would be a great fit for Toronto, Nashville, Buffalo, Colorado,
Dallas, and even Tampa. There would be a bidding war.
 

Papi 4 Hart

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Nov 9, 2018
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Why would the leafs trade Kapanen for anything less than in a package for a stud RHD?

He is as valuable as it gets to us in terms of style of play, cap hit and fitting in with the core. Cant see him being moved for UFA rentals.
 

Whaleafs

“The Leafs are mulch again”
Mar 24, 2017
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Lol at Nylander or Kapanen being part of any deal for a 30 year old upcoming UFA and bottom pair Dman
 

shortfuze

Registered User
Apr 23, 2007
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toronto
Toronto fans think the rest of the league is their farm team. More so than any other fan base here's how it goes...
Toronto fan posts a lopsided trade asking for value in return for futures and spare parts.....3rd and 4th line types... LOL then a decent majority of their fanbase says that's even too much...Wild stuff, truly.
thanks for the heads up tips. i love how fans of other teams always propose the best trades. like everyone elses trades but leafs fans are always spot on.
 

Nizdizzle

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Jul 7, 2007
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Because the cap space you have this year, will never be better. And that itself is an asset.

And you won't empty the cupboard, but you will 100% add to your team between now and the deadline to try and increase your chances at the cup. That's what contenders do.
Seems like a pretty convincing argument to keep cost controlled assets rather than dealing them.
 

HoweHullOrr

Registered User
Oct 3, 2013
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You think Gudas is worth a 1st? Listen, this isn't one of those cases were you can run around belittling your "fellow fans", i have had many discussions with Flyers fans that value Gudas at a 2nd+. Something for nothing....lol.

Gudas is a physical bruiser/D 1st player with very little offensive upside that on teams with good or better than average D, would play 3rd pair. While that may sound like a knock on him...it actually isn't, because that's exactly something the Leafs need....but you don't pay a 1st for that.

It was a general comment versus something specific to this proposal. I know who Gudas is & have watched numerous Flyer games. Try to relax. Not all people have the same opinion.

All I can say is that “in general”, we’ve had scores/hundreds of these kinds of proposals and nothing has happened over the last 2+ years. If it was as easy as some seem to think, it would have happened by now.
 
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HoweHullOrr

Registered User
Oct 3, 2013
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Why would the leafs trade Kapanen for anything less than in a package for a stud RHD?

He is as valuable as it gets to us in terms of style of play, cap hit and fitting in with the core. Cant see him being moved for UFA rentals.
Because the demand for “stud” RDs is very high while supply is very low. It’s the same reason we see proposals for RHDs ad nauseam.
 
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