Growlers sign 10 year lease extension

[Growlers]

The City of St. John's has reached a 10-year lease agreement in principle with the Newfoundland Growlers hockey team and St. John's Edge basketball teams to use Mile One Centre.

The deal between St. John's Sports and Entertainment and the two professional sports teams was announced Wednesday afternoon.

"All of us in the Growlers organization are pleased and excited to have reached an agreement in principle for a historic 10-year lease" with SJSE and the City of St. John's, Newfoundland Growlers owner Dean MacDonald said in a press release.



Source: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/growlers-mile-one-lease-deal-1.5293756

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[Centrum Hockey]

WOW great for growlers fans i was expecting something different knowing what happened with the leafs and fogdevils.

 

[Newfoundland]

Awesome! f*** you danny breen

 

[Growler]

10 years in the ECHL is a very long time. The Growlers are going to be a cornerstone for hockey in Newfoundland and a really stable franchise for the ECHL now.

 

[Newfoundland]

Nothing special really. He looks like he's adapted relatively well to the system but i really haven't noticed anything that's likely to keep him around the big club. Not quite the chip off the old block(not yet anyway) i was hoping for.

10 years in the ECHL is a very long time. The Growlers are going to be a cornerstone for hockey in Newfoundland and a really stable franchise for the ECHL now.

Let's hope the attendance is alot better then last seasons disappointing numbers...

 

[Tater Tot]

“Let's hope the attendance is alot better then last seasons disappointing numbers”


That’s the key to it all, if attendance don't improve, the team will not be around for another 10 years. I wonder what the actual terms are and what the out clause is.

 

[Newfoundland]

With the recent developments (10 yr lease) it should help attendance greatly. As a people; we're sick of losing our team after 3 yrs and with the great support from TML it should provide lots of stability.

 

[JMCx4]

...

If the new lease "will increase the subsidy", then why do the numbers go down? Hockey math?

 

[wildcat48]

Did not see this one coming.... After the tension between both sides the last few weeks I surely thought this team was gone.

 

[Tater Tot]

If the new lease "will increase the subsidy", then why do the numbers go down? Hockey math?

I had to look at it a couple times myself before it made sense. The current subsidy will increase 440,000 in year one. In year 2 the increase is 250,000 and in years 3 thru 10 it will increase 200,000 annually. The total increase over the 10 years is an additional 2.29 million given to SJSE, which uses it to operate the arena and subsidize the teams. It's a little fuzzy, but their is an overall increase during the 10 year period. Didn't the growlers receive a subsidy last year but still lost money?

If these teams need money from their local governments every year, the Growlers aren't alone in this, to break even or report a small profit, then they aren't really making any money at all. Then you get the cries and complaints that government shouldn't be funding private enterprise, then the counter argument that it helps the local economy etc.

 

[Growlers]

Part of that 2.29 subsidy goes towards a large convention center attached to Mile One. Here are some details here

According to the city, the total operating grant in 2019 for SJSE was $2.9 million. Of that amount, $1.96 million was earmarked for Mile One.
Under the new lease, the subsidy for Mile One Centre will increase by $440,000 in Year 1, $250,000 in Year 2 and $200,000 between Years 3-10.

Source: Growlers, Edge, city agree on Mile One lease | The Telegram

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

HOPEFULLY, SJSE doesn't backtrack on the lease now that's it's agreed to..... Congrats to Deacon and the Edge for staying tough despite the circumstances they were put in...... I wish though the option for both Deacon and the Edge to manage the arena/convention centre had not been summarily rejected.

 

[JMCx4]

I had to look at it a couple times myself before it made sense. The current subsidy will increase 440,000 in year one. In year 2 the increase is 250,000 and in years 3 thru 10 it will increase 200,000 annually. The total increase over the 10 years is an additional 2.29 million given to SJSE, which uses it to operate the arena and subsidize the teams. It's a little fuzzy, but their is an overall increase during the 10 year period. ...

Thanks for the explanation. I think the "+" sign is still a standard key, even on smart phones. The Tweeter should seek it out & use it as appropriate.

 

[Growler]

I had to look at it a couple times myself before it made sense. The current subsidy will increase 440,000 in year one. In year 2 the increase is 250,000 and in years 3 thru 10 it will increase 200,000 annually. The total increase over the 10 years is an additional 2.29 million given to SJSE, which uses it to operate the arena and subsidize the teams. It's a little fuzzy, but their is an overall increase during the 10 year period. Didn't the growlers receive a subsidy last year but still lost money?

If these teams need money from their local governments every year, the Growlers aren't alone in this, to break even or report a small profit, then they aren't really making any money at all. Then you get the cries and complaints that government shouldn't be funding private enterprise, then the counter argument that it helps the local economy etc.

The Growlers did not receive a subsidy, the stadium did. Whether it is empty or filled it still needs a subsidy. When the stadium is used by the Growlers it consumes electricity, requires staffing etc. which increases the cost versus being empty. So SJSE tried to offload all of those incremental costs and some of the other operational costs onto the Growlers in the form of rent the % of the concessions collected. It totalled up to usury because SJSE incompetence has scared away any other businesses and Acts to use Mile One. The stadium is basically empty all year without the Growlers (and Edge).
So MacDonald said f*** you I'm out. The Edge did as well. They walked away smartly when the entire city was going bananas with the Leafs in town for a full week including an exhibition game. The City crawled back realizing they are a bunch of morons for looking at the cost model through the lens they were using.
MacDonald commissioned his own study that concluded the Growlers will bring $15M in benefit to St. John's (downtown businesses, tourism, Leafs coming to town, Marlies coming to town etc.) With that benefit also in the equation, the negotiations obviously took a different angle.
MacDonald is not looking to make a profit. Just break even. The increase in subsidy over the next 10 years is probably based on a forecasted attendance figure with a % of those concessions going back to the city in part. If the Growlers attenandance is higher than the forecasts, then the subsidy should be less. But factoring in the $15M net benefit, St. John's stands to be in the Black vis a vis tourism, local businesses etc.

 

[Tater Tot]

regardless of how you break it down, none of it matters if the fans don't show up to support the teams. As long as folks show up to support, things will be fine.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

and you wonder why MLSE Walked away from SJSE, IE THE Marlies over the same issues, it's a wonder why MLSE would ever want to return there to Newfoundland and have that hanging over both affiliates

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

regardless of how you break it down, none of it matters if the fans don't show up to support the teams. As long as folks show up to support, things will be fine.

not always, if the team leaves for a better market, it doesn't matter how many fans support a franchise, if the decision is made that another market can do better than the market a team is in, lease or not, contentious as they are at times

 

[Growler]

regardless of how you break it down, none of it matters if the fans don't show up to support the teams. As long as folks show up to support, things will be fine.

True, but St. John's always packed Mile One for hockey in the past , and they were #1 in attendance last year for Basketball. The Growlers will start to pack them in with this 10 year lease arrangement. The fans need to trust the team will be around and not yanked out like the last 3 franchises. Plus, they needed to see/understand the ECHL and the Toronto plans for the ECHL. Plus, the Growlers are locally owned and can actually ice local hockey talent, which is something the AHL could never afford if only by luck.

The Growlers will do just fine.

 

[JMCx4]

“Let's hope the attendance is alot better then last seasons disappointing numbers”

That’s the key to it all, if attendance don't improve, the team will not be around for another 10 years. I wonder what the actual terms are and what the out clause is.

I'm glad somebody else mentioned this. Too many uncertainties to be certain. All fans can do is show up for games & buy concessions & be vocal if/when the next lease crisis arises.

 

[HugoSimon]

I'm hoping I can get my cousins and uncle in Brampton out to see one of their games. We're all Newfies so it'd be bloody nice to get a piece of home while living away.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

and you wonder why MLSE Walked away from SJSE, IE THE Marlies over the same issues, it's a wonder why MLSE would ever want to return there to Newfoundland and have that hanging over both affiliates

MLSE walked from St John's before because the team was AHL team, a true development league for the NHL Leafs. Leafs management thought the extensive travel in isolated St John's took away valuable training, development time for it's young Leaf hopefuls. Having an AHL team close to the NHL club, or even in the same city is great for development and it also allows the Leafs to attract better high end AHL free agents.
Growlers in the ECHL? Really except for maybe a goalie, it really isn't a development league for the NHL.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

MLSE walked from St John's before because the team was AHL team, a true development league for the NHL Leafs. Leafs management thought the extensive travel in isolated St John's took away valuable training, development time for it's young Leaf hopefuls. Having an AHL team close to the NHL club, or even in the same city is great for development and it also allows the Leafs to attract better high end AHL free agents.
Growlers in the ECHL? Really except for maybe a goalie, it really isn't a development league for the NHL.

yea it is, otherwise Toronto knew exactly what SJSE WAS when it was enticed to return, lifelong, last year proved Newfoundland is a Leafs affiliate,, a non-traditional way that the ECHL franchise is usually run , why were the Leafs holding training camp and an exhibition game in Newfoundland, as has been reported, the only difference is they're not the ones involved in the contract dispute with SJSE..... Toronto/MLSE pays everything in the province, including the travel fees, just as it was when the Marlies were based there, the same issue that affected the Fog Devils when they arrived there, the Leafs logos were still present at Mile One

 

[Growler]

This thread should enjoy this 16 minute interview which is a good background on the whole Growler story and the lease agreement. Interview with Owner Dean MacDonald.

 

[JMCx4]

That interview deserves a place as the original post of a "2019-20 Growlers" dedicated thread.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

That interview deserves a place as the original post of a "2019-20 Growlers" dedicated thread.

except you have to do it for all 26 teams..... there's no longer the poster fanbase here because by the time a thread gets posted or updated it's not as relevant, except if it's a dispute as we've seen with SJSE, MOST OF THE STUFF WE FIND ARE OLD news, it was that way in the AHL Thread here and elsewhere