Grouping for 2012

Discussion in '2019 IIHF World Junior Championship' started by KopitarFAN, Jan 2, 2011.

  1. KopitarFAN

    KopitarFAN Reno Sucks!

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    I read on another thread that they are grouped based on the previous years finish. 1, 4, 5, 8 in one group and 2, 3, 6, 7 in the other. Obviously, 1-6 is determined by the medal & 5th place games. But how are 7-10 determined?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. dmacgreg37

    dmacgreg37 Registered User

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    There's a relegation round going on right now. That will determine 7-8, then the promoted teams will be 9-10.
     
  3. jkrdevil

    jkrdevil UnRegistered User

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    The promoted teams are 9 and 10.
     
  4. canucksfan

    canucksfan Registered User

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    Who gets promoted this year?
     
  5. danishh

    danishh Registered User

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    latvia and denmark get promoted.

    assuming germany and norway go back down, but things could get interesting if germany beats the czechs tonight.
     
  6. KopitarFAN

    KopitarFAN Reno Sucks!

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    In the relegation, I noticed that they play the two teams from the opposing group. Do the two teams that have the best record in those games get 7 & 8?
     
  7. danishh

    danishh Registered User

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    i think its overall record.


    Svk is 1-1-0-3
    Cze is 1-0-0-3
    Ger is 0-0-1-3
    Nor is 0-0-0-5

    germany czech tonight is the key relegation round game. If czech loses, cze-svk might become a battle to stay in the championship.
     
  8. Pyke*

    Pyke* Guest

    Nope. Only games against relegated teams count.

    In other words, Slovakia keeps it's win against Germany.

    I think the standings currently are:
    SVK: 1-1-0-0
    CZE: 1-0-0-0
    GER: 0-0-1-0
    NOR: 0-0-0-2

    A win by Germany could make things really interesting. I believe it is impossible for SVK to get relegated now (according to TSN).
     
  9. dmacgreg37

    dmacgreg37 Registered User

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    Yeah, I think TSN was wrong though.

    If Czechs beat Slovakia, Germany beat Czechs and Norway (all in regulation) it would end up

    Germany 7 points
    Czechs 6 points
    Slovakia 5 points
    Norway 0 points.


    If the Czechs win tonight in regulation, the relegation zone is decided (Germany/Norway go down) and the Slovak/Czech game is a battle for 7th.
     
  10. dmacgreg37

    dmacgreg37 Registered User

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    Sort of. It's those 2 games + the carryover result from the RR against the other relegated team. (NOR/CZE and SVK/GER carry over).

    To start it was

    Czechs 3 points +2
    Slovaks 2 points +1
    Germany 1 point -1
    Norway 0 points -2

    Then there's a mini set of games (2 each) and that determines 7-10.
     
  11. KopitarFAN

    KopitarFAN Reno Sucks!

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    So by winning in regulation (if)CZE & SVK would clinch 7 & 8, and their meeting on tuesday would decide the order?
     
  12. Pyke*

    Pyke* Guest

    I think you're right - and I suspected this when I posted, but was too lazy to do the math and check.

    I think TSN messed up their calculations.
     
  13. Pyke*

    Pyke* Guest

    I think dmac had it right.

    Current standings:
    SVK: 1-1-0-0 -5 pts
    CZE: 1-0-0-0 - 3 pts
    GER: 0-0-1-0 - 1 pt
    NOR: 0-0-0-2 - 0 pts

    If Germany beats the Czech Republic tonight, that would be SVK: 5, GER: 4, CZE: 3 with games between SVK - CZE and GER - NOR tomorrow.

    This could lead to a wide number of possible circumstances depending on who wins what, but in short, a loss by either team combined with a German win would see that team get relegated. There are no combinations in this scenario that lead to a 3 way tie.

    If Czech Republic beats Germany tonight, the game tomorrow doesn't matter.
     
  14. dmacgreg37

    dmacgreg37 Registered User

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    No it does matter.

    If Germany beat the Czechs, the standings will be

    Svk 5 points
    Germany 4 points
    Czechs 3 points
    Norway 0 points

    If the Czechs then beat the Slovaks, the Germans would need to beat Norway to knock the Slovaks out.
     
  15. Pyke*

    Pyke* Guest

    Wrong under the assumption Germany wins tonight.

    Assuming a German win in regulation, Germany's 4 points means they could still get relegated if Slovakia lost in regulation or overtime if they lost in regulation to Norway.

    Additionally, a loss in overtime to Norway coupled with a regulation loss by Slovakia sees Germany relegated, since Slovakia holds the tie-break.

    If Czech Republic loses in overtime or regulation to Slovakia, then Germany wins the tie-break.

    Of course, if Germany won in Overtime tonight, that changes things and creates a whole new set of variables.
     
  16. KopitarFAN

    KopitarFAN Reno Sucks!

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    But should Germany lose in regulation.

    Czechs 6
    Svk 5
    Germ 1
    Nor 0

    But as you say, should Germany win tonight, it opens up a whole cluster-**** of possibilities.
     
  17. fan75

    fan75 Registered User

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    FYI, Latvia will be seeded #9 (group A) and Denmark will be seeded #10 (group B)

    #1
    #4
    #5 (Winner of Finland - Switzerland)
    #8 (Loser of Czech - Slovakia)
    #9 Latvia

    #2
    #3
    #6 (Loser of Finland - Switzerland)
    #7 (Winner of Czech - Slovakia)
    #10 Denmark

    and if you're interested Division I would be...
    Group A (Winner of GER-NOR, Belarus, Austria, Kazakhstan, Croatia, France)
    Group B (Loser of GER-NOR, Slovenia, Great Britain, Italy, Japan, Poland)
     
  18. Purple hippo

    Purple hippo Registered User

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    Unless of course they change the way Division I-III is set up to the new format which would look...

    Group IA
    Germany, Norway, Slovenia, Belarus, Austria, Great Britain

    Group IB
    Italy, Kazakhstan, Croatia, Japan, Poland and France
     
  19. Pyke*

    Pyke* Guest

    Eh, nobody in Group IB deserves to be promoted, while Germany, Norway and Belarus have some potential....I'd love to see Slovenia get a shot in the bigs at the mens level for Kopitar's sake, but they don't consistently produce talent.
     
  20. Purple hippo

    Purple hippo Registered User

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    Countries from IB gain promotion to IA, the new system makes IA carry more weight and the only Group that can move you up a Division.

    You can watch this year then as they gained promotion last year and play in Group A with Germany, Slovakia and Russia.
     
  21. fan75

    fan75 Registered User

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    I only posted the old system because the new one hasn't been approved yet, and if it is, is it for all levels or just the seniors?

    And hopefully if it was approved only one team would go up/down between the elite and DIA, at least at the junior level.
     
  22. zorz

    zorz Registered User

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    I think they should let 2 teams relegate as it is. If just one relegated, the relegation round would be pretty boring. Generally I think current format is ok.
     
  23. v-man

    v-man Registered User

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    That's just for the juniors. The men's tournament already has 16 teams at the elite level and is considerably more competitive. I believe they're looking at changing the tournament format for that, with two pools/groups playing a round robin, but not the relegation system.

    I agree. Often there are too many teams at the D1 level that deserve promotion, while some not so good teams can eek out an 8th place finish and stay up at the elite level. With only one team moving up or down, that would deny many talented players a chance to shine at the elite tournament. There is nothing wrong with the way it is now. Getting rid of weaker teams also means getting rid of the possibility of upsets, which isn't beneficial to the players or the fans.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2011
  24. fan75

    fan75 Registered User

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    What I'd really like to see is 12 teams at the elite level, but I doubt that's going to happen in the near future. In the past 9 years since 2 teams have been relegated, only 2 countries outside of the big 8 have managed to stay up. Kazakhstan in 2008 and Latvia in 2009 (when Switzerland was in Div I). Relegating one team (or expanding to 12) would allow other nations the chance to establish themselves a bit more. Look at Germany: every single year in the last 9 years they've been promoted and then relegated right back down.
     
  25. zorz

    zorz Registered User

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    It'd be good for Germans, but then another team going up and down would appear sooner or later and it's fans would be calling for another changes. And 12 teams? Too many IMO. Round robin would become complete joke, because majority of the games would be blowouts.
     

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