World Cup: Group F: South Korea vs. Germany, Mexico vs. Sweden; 6/27/2018

[Nalens Oga]

German could've scored 4 goals in the last ~15 minutes if Hummels & Gomez had nailed their headers...this team ****ed a lot up, but one of the only critiques they aren't guilty of is failing to create any dangerous scenes

Those were all crosses though and crosses in general are not proper scoring chances, you're always taking a risk. The fact that this team has no gameplan to generate anything through the middle despite having two of the most creative passers in the modern game is an issue.

Besides, if he was just gonna get them to play crosses then might as well have started Gomez (though Wagner is probably better at it at this point).

 

[cgf]

Those were all crosses though and crosses in general are not proper scoring chances, you're always taking a risk. The fact that this team has no gameplan to generate anything through the middle despite having two of the most creative passers in the modern game is an issue.

Besides, if he was just gonna get them to play crosses then might as well have started Gomez (though Wagner is probably better at it at this point).

Werner & Brandt also had some "half chances" earlier in the game that were created on the ground, we went all route 1 at the end, but the team generated chances...we just didn't generate nearly as good of chances as we should because of how deep Özil was playing...and we were far too wasteful with what chances we did create.

This team is a perfect example for why properly structuring your midfield & defense is important...it doesn't just better serve you against counters, it's also how you give yourself the triangles to play your way forward without needing the attackers to drop DEEP.

 

[cgf]

REINHARD GRINDEL: Everyone who is part of the DFB delegation here in Russia is thoroughly disappointed. I feel sorry for the fans who have been looking forward to this World Cup so much. It’s not the job of the president to analyse what went wrong - that’s not my place. That’s what the management is for. It’s up to them to explain what happened and we will draw our consequences from that. We always knew that there would be a rebuilding phase after this World Cup, regardless of how well it went. The presidential board and I have always felt that Joachim Löw is the right person to do that. That isn’t necessarily because of his success in 2014, but more because of what he did with a young team at the 2017 Confed Cup. That’s why we decided to extend his contract until 2022 before the tournament. I am still of that opinion and haven’t heard anything different from any other member of the presidential board.

...we are so f***ed...

 

[les Habs]

Not a big surprise Germany are out. Having watched the Mexico match and seeing some of the Sweden match, the latter being a result they didn't deserve from what I saw and have read, they didn't look as good as advertised. Granted it was four years ago, but I still think their performance against Brazil in the last World Cup was overrated on this forum. Anyway, I'm not here to gloat or celebrate like some. In fact I still remember 2002, so I'm not a fan of South Korea one way or the other. I also like Hummels. Of course it is nice to see God's midfield gift to football assist another goal.

 

[illpucks]

Mods should have locked the poll before start of game.

Lopsided vote for Germany now tons of troll votes for Sweden and Mexico after the fact

 

[Eisen]

To be fair, what goes around comes around. Ideally you show grace in defeat but more often than not Germans and German media outlet are very quick to laugh at other teams or nations misfortune. Is it really a surprise here that it's coming back around to the Germans? There are sore losers, then there are sore winners. There is a reason why team Germany is disliked by many around the world and it isn't just because of jealousy/success.

We do? I'm not aware of that.
Nobody said a word about that Brazil game apart from being happy to have won. The German team consoled the players on the pitch. Fans on the other hand...

 

[Drivesaitl]

Half chances.

Banging if off the uprights 3 times in the first two games is half chances?

Lets not forget Germany usually finishes chances better than this as befits their skill around the pitch. Germany also usually much better directing headers in than at this tourney.

That said of course they miss Klose who was probably good to finish one of those chances in group, Schweini would won enough battle to probably feed Germany another goal and Lahm missing cost us at back and in transition.

 

[Eisen]

hahahahahaha

If Jogi hasn't already been fired then I'll get mad, otherwise, all I can say is it is about damn time. This moron eliminated us in 3 of the past 4 tourneys through massive incompetence...oh and Khedira, Draxler & Müller better have retired after that match or I might need to pull a Tonya Harding on the three of them right before the Euros.

I was still hoping that maybe the players would just mutiny and pick their own squad so we could go on to win it all again despite the coach...like we did in 2014...but in the end that would've just kept Jogi in the job for even longer, and he should've been fired 6 years ago. It's a shock that we're out in the groupstages but with what a complete ****ing moron jogi is, it's ultimately not surprising that relying on Boateng & Ozil to be our entire midfield on their own didn't work. We played the first hour today a man down, and started against mexico 9 on 11.

Oh well, at least Mesut was magnificent, even if he would never have to play the 6 under a competent coach...hopefully he doesn't retire to...we looked good despite being a man down, at least before we left the midfield & all of our build up entirely to Özil & long cross field balls to the wings, and there's so much young talent that should've made this team that any even semi-competent coach will have us back to dominating.

A pity we never got to see what this team could look like if they ever played with 11 players at this tourney.

I add Werner, Özil, Kroos and Kimmich to that. Their effort in the game was pathetic and inexcusable. Hell, they can all go except Neuer and Hummels.

 

[Eisen]

Not selected. Has not played as well since the last WC as is the case with Schurrle, and several Germans that did play.

Nothing corrupts like success.

Look at Maradona.


jk aside winning the WC is more than a curse. Emotionally how do you climb the pinnacle, win it all, and have the same focus and conviction in life?

Or how do you score the WC winning goal and ever be the same again?

What would life be like for Goetze after scoring that goal and knowing that nothing else you ever touch in life will ever be as big as that and that you are 22.

Pretty good I guess but its literally impossible after a moment like that to sustain excellence. Moments like that are bigger than anybody and change everything.

Kroos seems to have no problem to play well for his club.

 

[Eisen]

Still upset over Germany going out. Hoping they can learn from this and come back stronger for the Euro Championships in 2020

It doesn't matter. That is a black mark that will stay with them forever.

 

[Evilo]

I still think their performance against Brazil in the last World Cup was overrated

I disagree it was overrated, however it hid the rest of the tournament where Germany was hardly dominant.
They looked great blowing out Portugal in the first game, then couldn't beat Ghana, barely beat the US, were lucky to beat Algeria, barely got past Belgium and then in the final needed OT and Higuain missing a glorious chance to win the WC.
That's not dominance at all, and lucky wins/draws in 5 of 7 games.

That's not a critic, I've always said France played like shit and were lucky to win WC98 for instance, but it was presented way too much as Germany rolling over everyone because of that semi final.

 

[Eisen]

Yeah, right, then Erich Ribbeck happened.
I am totally against having a NT coach around for 10+ years. It would have been right to move on after 2016. But the DfB is like the mafia.

It was not Ribbeck's fault. Remember what we had back then to pick from? Ramelow, Jancker, Rink, Jeremies, Wosz, Ziege stone old Häßler and Matthäus to add some much needed creativity. Not that he was a brilliant coach, but even Jesus could not win with players like that.

 

[Eisen]

It's all political, and it seems like all those people have linked their fates to each other.

But I honestly don't see how Löw's position is tenable. It's not just that the team went out, it's how they went out and how his failures as a manager were exposed. You can't lose 2 out of 3 (with 1 lucky win) in this group with that quality at your disposal. If that many players fail and if they fail similarly in different lineup combinations, the issue is structural, and it's on the manager.

It's not just about tactics and deciding on the squad and lineup either..it's also communication and motivation. We all know there's an expiration date on coaches in sports, Löw is obviously past it. Even if he stays now, it will just mean more drama over the next months.

Remember how the DFB was too cowardly to sack Vogts after WC 98, but it was obvious no-one had any confidence in him anymore..so he ended up getting sacked in the fall instead. Back then they paid for their failure to read the tea leaves with a farcical coaching search ending up in perhaps the worst ever appointment a major FA had made..lets hope they dont repeat their mistake.

He just won the Euros 2006. It's hard to fire a coach that won a title in the last tournament. But I remember the media frenyz about it. Everyone wanted to get rid of him except the DFB.

 

[c9777666]

By soccer standards, the South Korea goalie had to make so many saves it was like the equivalent of a hot NHL goalie stealing a game.

 

[Eisen]

Werner & Brandt also had some "half chances" earlier in the game that were created on the ground, we went all route 1 at the end, but the team generated chances...we just didn't generate nearly as good of chances as we should because of how deep Özil was playing...and we were far too wasteful with what chances we did create.

This team is a perfect example for why properly structuring your midfield & defense is important...it doesn't just better serve you against counters, it's also how you give yourself the triangles to play your way forward without needing the attackers to drop DEEP.

But you shouldn't forget that some of that goes down to personal ability and drive. They passed more left right than forward, they didn't go for the one against one (I know that's not the gameplan, but if the plan doesn't work for games, then I expect someone to take initiative), the were slow (again). That's why I didn't mind Hummels, he showed that drive. If the team would have been motivated, they would have followed that example. But there was nothing.

 

[Eisen]

By soccer standards, the South Korea goalie had to make so many saves it was like the equivalent of a hot NHL goalie stealing a game.

He made some good ones but no. Germany gave him very little trouble.

 

[Corto]

He just won the Euros 2006. It's hard to fire a coach that won a title in the last tournament. But I remember the media frenyz about it. Everyone wanted to get rid of him except the DFB.

EUROs 1996, but yeah.
Thing is, Germany had an old squad, new talent was nowhere to be seen, and it took 8 years before the cornerstones of the next great generation appeared. Yeah, they grinded their way to the 2002 final, but it was pedestrian football with everything hanging on Kahn, Ballack and an in-form Bernd Schneider.

Now though, Germany needs to realize some of the "new" guys might just not be good enough to replace the old ones.
People seemingly forget they lost Lahm, Schweinsteiger and Klose. The only replacement they have for them is Kimmich, and he has been tactically woeful - and not bringing much offensively either.
Schweini was tactically responsible, competent on the ball, and a leader, Kroos simply doesn't have someone like that to play with him now.
Klose, the most underrated striker in the universe, is hard to replace. No he couldn't dribble, he couldn't run, etc... But he was never asked to.
He was asked to be the target man, and he had the instincts to spearhead these German teams and break down opposition - vs teams that parked the bus, but also against teams that tried to play football vs Germany. He was perfect for this Germany, and his number of goals, and of big goals prove it.

To me, the new guys look overrated. Rudy, Werner, Goretzka, even Brandt (who had a decent showing), Draxler, Gintner, Plattenhardt, etc.
They are either flat out not in the tier that Germany is used to these last 10 years, or they are still developing players who may or may not turn out great - but are definitely not there yet.
Werner (to me) looks completely out of his depth and I'm honestly not sure he'll turn out the player that most are hyping him out to be.
But he certainly isn't that player yet.

So, while yes, Löw bears a lot of responsibility, this German team is simply not as good as the German teams of the last 10 years.

 

[IamNotADancer]

We do? I'm not aware of that.
Nobody said a word about that Brayil game apart from being h appy to have won. The German team consoled the players on the pitch. Fans on the other hand...

Maybe I'm a bit more sensitive to it, but I do see a lot of glee coming from (albeit less reputable) media sources anytime a team misses out on participation in whatever cup is around the corner. I mean, it's undeniable that Portugal, Italy, Spain and especially the Netherlands are made fun of in one way or another.
As for fans, I really don't expect much in general from fans. For most it's a very emotional thing they feel very attached to, so win or lose, many take it personal, although I have to say that Brazilian soccer fans, for as passionate as they are, they always seem to piss on their own team before they curse the team that beat them. Maybe it's easier to show grace in defeat having won 7 World Cups, but if we talk about being a classy fan, it's the Brazilians.

As for players consoling players. Well, it's a bit different when you have an actual relationship with a human being. Many know each other since childhood, teens etc. Some are even team mates, so teams in general hardly ever show glee towards each other knowing full well that they will see each other again in the not so distant future and you don't want to carry that around with you.

 

[Eisen]

EUROs 1996, but yeah.
Thing is, Germany had an old squad, new talent was nowhere to be seen, and it took 8 years before the cornerstones of the next great generation appeared. Yeah, they grinded their way to the 2002 final, but it was pedestrian football with everything hanging on Kahn, Ballack and an in-form Bernd Schneider.

Now though, Germany needs to realize some of the "new" guys might just not be good enough to replace the old ones.
People seemingly forget they lost Lahm, Schweinsteiger and Klose. The only replacement they have for them is Kimmich, and he has been tactically woeful - and not bringing much offensively either.
Schweini was tactically responsible, competent on the ball, and a leader, Kroos simply doesn't have someone like that to play with him now.
Klose, the most underrated striker in the universe, is hard to replace. No he couldn't dribble, he couldn't run, etc... But he was never asked to.
He was asked to be the target man, and he had the instincts to spearhead these German teams and break down opposition - vs teams that parked the bus, but also against teams that tried to play football vs Germany. He was perfect for this Germany, and his number of goals, and of big goals prove it.

To me, the new guys look overrated. Rudy, Werner, Goretzka, even Brandt (who had a decent showing), Draxler, Gintner, Plattenhardt, etc.
They are either flat out not in the tier that Germany is used to these last 10 years, or they are still developing players who may or may not turn out great - but are definitely not there yet.
Werner (to me) looks completely out of his depth and I'm honestly not sure he'll turn out the player that most are hyping him out to be.
But he certainly isn't that player yet.

So, while yes, Löw bears a lot of responsibility, this German team is simply not as good as the German teams of the last 10 years.

I completely agree with you. Looking back I can only shake my head at Beckenbauer saying in 1990 that we can't be beaten for years. Actually, thinking back, even at that time I was shocked he would say something like that. I actively remember the Derwall years and not a lot of time has passed since then (Briegel is one of my favourite players), 6 six years, and he comes out with a line like that? In 92 the lost against to Denmark (losing Matthäus, the key cog) and 94 they lost to a header from the penalty point with a totally different and much weaker midfield than 1990. The decline started right there in 1990. 1996 was not good. They scraped their way to that title, freaking Eilts being the best player on the pitch. In 2002 they had one good game, and they lost it.
The same thing happening now. You simply can't replace guys like Schweini and Lahm or bring players back to a form from 4 years ago. And I don't see anyone that could preplace their play.
And I agree with you on Klose (another one of my favourites). He could run though, he was not all the way back but he worked hard backpressing at times. He was always at the right place too.
The Werner case could be interesting, I could see him working well at club level but I'm nt so sure about the team, depending on what style we play next.

 

[Eisen]

Maybe I'm a bit more sensitive to it, but I do see a lot of glee coming from (albeit less reputable) media sources anytime a team misses out on participation in whatever cup is around the corner. I mean, it's undeniable that Portugal, Italy, Spain and especially the Netherlands are made fun of in one way or another.
As for fans, I really don't expect much in general from fans. For most it's a very emotional thing they feel very attached to, so win or lose, many take it personal, although I have to say that Brazilian soccer fans, for as passionate as they are, they always seem to piss on their own team before they curse the team that beat them. Maybe it's easier to show grace in defeat having won 7 World Cups, but if we talk about being a classy fan, it's the Brazilians.

As for players consoling players. Well, it's a bit different when you have an actual relationship with a human being. Many know each other since childhood, teens etc. Some are even team mates, so teams in general hardly ever show glee towards each other knowing full well that they will see each other again in the not so distant future and you don't want to carry that around with you.

For the Dutch, yeah, that's probably true. Many still remember Koeman and Rijkard. It's still mentioned regularly.

 

[Corto]

The decline started right there in 1990. 1996 was not good. They scraped their way to that title, freaking Eilts being the best player on the pitch.

We lost to Germany 2-1 in the quarters, we felt we outplayed them and got robbed by the ref (we still do, and I'm speaking for every Croat who watched that game lol...).
That said, Matthias Sammer was the best player of tournament and in that game. What a player.

 

[bluumax]

As an outsider looking in, i can see how the emotion is so raw and disappointment so strong, but remember;

You have been able to celebrate a world cup win in the last decade, thats huge, and should be enough to take the edge off this defeat. If somebody offered me a leaf cup win followed by 4 years of missing the playoffs id snap their hand off.

Another thing, Its easy to throw the players that won you the cup in 14 aside as too old or not what they used to be, but they won, so they earned the right to sink or swim this time around, and it would be pretty disrespectful to basically right off the players that made you the "team to beat" in world football.

Don't dwell on. Look forward to the rebuilding process.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

Not sure what you are on about. Considering I'm a Spursfan and have watched every single minute Son has played for the team since he came to England............ so no I'm not kidding you. Very good player, but nothing special compared to what Germany got.

As for it not being a rumour...... you have to be kidding me.

The game proved itself.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

The game proved itself.

I'm not sure how you are possibly supposed to prove that it isn't just a rumour.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

I'm not sure how you are possibly supposed to prove that it isn't just a rumour.

What rumour?