GDT: Group B - February 14 - Slovakia (3) vs Russia (2)

[Yakushev72]

Starting to feel the heat already after one game?

You don't have to have watched the game to click on any millions of sources and immediately get the result and be able to comment on the game here.

It's the year 2018, this is easily done.

Speaking of someone who always surfaces after a Russian loss, good to hear from you, jj,

 

[jj cale]

One prominent poster seemed to criticize me because I sounded the alarm that this wouldn't necessarily be a walk in the park to the Gold Medal podium. How does it look now? Do you still think the opposition is too inferior to make it interesting? Russia looked like a group of aging superstars skating around the rink aimlessly, playing for themselves and unwilling to camp out in the tough spots in the slot. Russia totally dominated the first period, but the lack of defensive discipline and putrid goaltending produced 2 undeserved goals to tie the score. After that, you could see a visible collapse, because there is no coach to show them the way back to victory. Who doubts that this will happen again?

Ah, the goals were "undeserved" I see.

When Russia loses it seems it was always the result of something other then being the lesser team on that particular day.

Slovakia outplayed them and took it to them, that your team did not step up and meet them is not Slovakias fault. They DESERVED to win and did.

 

[jj cale]

Speaking of someone who always surfaces after a Russian loss, good to hear from you, jj,

I actually do not always surface after a Russian loss at all and if you check out my post history you will see that,I don't think I even made one single comment after Russian losses in the just recently held WJC but I have decided to make a point of doing so this olympics since this is a special case where people just thought we should hand the gold to Russia before the games even started.

 

[VictorLustig]

Oh boy if Russia doesn't win this thing can you imagine?

They were supposed to waltz right through this thing.

I've seen Russia lose many times in EHT games with similar rosters. They are still the favorites but I would be very surprised to see them "waltz" through this tournament. Lots of people hype them up without knowing a thing about their team, or any other team for that matter.

 

[jj cale]

I've seen Russia lose many times in EHT games with similar rosters. They are still the favorites but I would be very surprised to see them "waltz" through this tournament. Lots of people hype them up without knowing a thing about their team, or any other team for that matter.

I was always going to be surprised to see them waltz through this tournament as it is not 1975 anymore, the difference between the countries is much smaller then in days long gone by even when a country like Russia will have on paper more talent available to them at this thing then the rest. They can still go all the way, this was just one game........................but they will indeed have to sharpen up and earn it, they won't just blow everyone away.

They still have the talent to go all the way.

 

[Elvs]

What the previous two posters said.

It's the same thing every tournament. Certain posters thinking the weaker nations can be skated circles around. It doesn't even happen with NHL'ers anymore, and in this tournament the gap is even smaller.

Over an 82 game season, the difference between teams and players becomes more obvious. But in just any single game? Slovakia beating Russia (OAR) in this game isn't much more shocking than Arizona beating Tampa Bay in one game. Nearly the entire Slovak team has experience from playing in the KHL.

Just like tomorrow, Sweden beating Norway is no guarantee. Many of the Norwegian players are currently playing in the SHL, or have experience playing there.

 

[Yakushev72]

I actually do not always surface after a Russian loss at all and if you check out my post history you will see that,I don't think I even made one single comment after Russian losses in the just recently held WJC but I have decided to make a point of doing so this olympics since this is a special case where people just thought we should hand the gold to Russia before the games even started.

Well explained. Speaking your disdain for Russia is free speech, whether it seems obsessive or not. I was simply noting (free speech) that you always go out of your way to kick Russia when they are down. Its not as if it isn't obvious!

 

[Privet]

Viva la Slovakia! I am russian-born, but not cheering for this russian team.

 

[tobu]

What the previous two posters said.

It's the same thing every tournament. Certain posters thinking the weaker nations can be skated circles around. It doesn't even happen with NHL'ers anymore, and in this tournament the gap is even smaller.

Over an 82 game season, the difference between teams and players becomes more obvious. But in just any single game? Slovakia beating Russia (OAR) in this game isn't much more shocking than Arizona beating Tampa Bay in one game. Nearly the entire Slovak team has experience from playing in the KHL.

Just like tomorrow, Sweden beating Norway is no guarantee. Many of the Norwegian players are currently playing in the SHL, or have experience playing there.

In a way yes, I think like 15 or 16 players have played in the KHL during their career at least a few games, though it's worth a mention that only one is an active KHL player right now.

 

[jj cale]

Well explained. Speaking your disdain for Russia is free speech, whether it seems obsessive or not. I was simply noting (free speech) that you always go out of your way to kick Russia when they are down. Its not as if it isn't obvious!

I don't go out of my way to kick Russia when they are down at all and my post history would prove that.

Do I like Russia? no, of course not...............I hate them, I am 47 years old and have grown up with them going through the wars with you guys on ice. also, most of your fans here make it real easy to keep up the hate also.

But that does not mean I am not able to talk reasonably about them and give them credit where credit is due unlike so many of you guys when it comes to Canadian hockey.

And I will tell it like it is in all reasonableness right now. I can see already that your fans and you have taken the wrong attitude towards this loss. You already write off your team wholly based on one performance and refuse to give Slovakia any credit for their win and it's just the usual way you guys go about doing things and it's the wrong attitude that always gets you nowhere. Why you havent learned that yet baffles me.

sure, you can roast your team for a bad performance but you have to acknowledge your team was outplayed and give the other team credit, realise your team is capable of far better(we all know they are)................and have faith it can and will happen.

Am I such a bad guy for pointing this out?

I don't like Russian hockey but that does not mean I am not capable and willing to be reasonable in my approach to it's failures and victories.

 

[Elvs]

In a way yes, I think like 15 or 16 players have played in the KHL during their career at least a few games, though it's worth a mention that only one is an active KHL player right now.

The point is, most of their players have experience playing against these Russian "stars".

Slovenia beating USA is more surprising. But even there, many of the slovenian players have experience playing in the KHL, SHL, Czech etc. The very same leagues the U.S. players are currently playing in.

Based on paper, should Slovenia have won? No. But it should be obvious that you can't just skate circles around them, but certain posters are acting like that should be the case.

 

[zbornaja36]

The only ones that were giving gold medal to Russia are name struck people. Sure Datsyuk, Kovalchuk, Mozyakin names sound sexy , but they are almost 40 years old, be realistic. If they would be in their prime, sure, that line could be top even with best NHL, but now... njet...

Second point... Znarok. How this guy is still in charge ??? The only success he had was with loaded russian roster against not very loaded other teams. And nothing more, like he does it KHL. Russia really needs scotty bowman type coach and serious team selection, not on names, but play and results.

It is not the end of the world, Russia had some bad starts to tournaments and turn it around. Positive point is that Znarok will be gone if they dont medal.

But Russian federation needs to do some serious changes, sure situation is much better that those late 1990, early 2000 years but now it is stagnating... KHL also needs to implement salary cup, make league competitive , it will benefit national team in long run. But this is another topic...

 

[jasonr90]

The only ones that were giving gold medal to Russia are name struck people. Sure Datsyuk, Kovalchuk, Mozyakin names sound sexy , but they are almost 40 years old, be realistic. If they would be in their prime, sure, that line could be top even with best NHL, but now... njet...

Second point... Znarok. How this guy is still in charge ??? The only success he had was with loaded russian roster against not very loaded other teams. And nothing more, like he does it KHL. Russia really needs scotty bowman type coach and serious team selection, not on names, but play and results.

It is not the end of the world, Russia had some bad starts to tournaments and turn it around. Positive point is that Znarok will be gone if they dont medal.

But Russian federation needs to do some serious changes, sure situation is much better that those late 1990, early 2000 years but now it is stagnating... KHL also needs to implement salary cup, make league competitive , it will benefit national team in long run. But this is another topic...

Who would be the next coach do you think? Are there any type of rumors of who would be next in line?

 

[PensandCaps]

How? How? Russia's roster is good enough to medal at a regular Olympics.

What a joke losing to Slovakia.

 

[thebus88]

Russia is taking a lot of really stupid delay of game penalties here....

Refs seem to call everything and give a lot of penalties.

Watched most of the game and wanted to come on here and voice my opinion on the refs. I thought most of the penalties they called were BRUTAL. Besides the fact that there were some "worse" things that went uncalled, I think many of the things they called were simply not penalties. I thought it seemed a bit in Russia's favor, to start at least, but they definitely "evened it out" by the end of the game.

The holding/interference/"whatever" in the corner against SVK and the trip against RUS on the backcheck at center ice were exceptionally bad IMO.

That leads me to those delay of game penalties. I really don't think EITHER of them should have been called. I'm surprised the Russians didn't complain (it seemed like on tv) at all. Weeks(?) brought it up during the broadcast quick, and even the other dude(?) made a comment about the 1st 1 potentially being called a "tip/deflection" in the NHL. But that's not the rule here anyways. Its supposed to be called the "old way". That means a guy has to purposefully shoot the puck out of play. The 1st 1, on I think Voynov, was CLEARLY not a guy intentionally shooting/hitting a puck over the glass. Even if he WAS, I'm not sure you could prove or even argue his intent there, as he didn't swing at the puck hard at all. The 2nd 1 definitely looks (and IS) worse, but again, in this situation there has to be intent. Don't think they were a tired group and the dude wasn't even really pressured or anything. Nothing short of a dumb play for many reasons, but it looked to me like a combo of the guy not knowing his surroundings (defenseman nearby, proximity to boards/glass) and the puck "rolling" on him and coming off his stick wrong. Again, its all about intent, and there's no reason for that guy to just shoot it out at that point.

The cherry on top was both the linesman messing up the icing in the last minute of the game during a pretty important sequence.

 

[Yakushev72]

Watched most of the game and wanted to come on here and voice my opinion on the refs. I thought most of the penalties they called were BRUTAL. Besides the fact that there were some "worse" things that went uncalled, I think many of the things they called were simply not penalties. I thought it seemed a bit in Russia's favor, to start at least, but they definitely "evened it out" by the end of the game.

The holding/interference/"whatever" in the corner against SVK and the trip against RUS on the backcheck at center ice were exceptionally bad IMO.

That leads me to those delay of game penalties. I really don't think EITHER of them should have been called. I'm surprised the Russians didn't complain (it seemed like on tv) at all. Weeks(?) brought it up during the broadcast quick, and even the other dude(?) made a comment about the 1st 1 potentially being called a "tip/deflection" in the NHL. But that's not the rule here anyways. Its supposed to be called the "old way". That means a guy has to purposefully shoot the puck out of play. The 1st 1, on I think Voynov, was CLEARLY not a guy intentionally shooting/hitting a puck over the glass. Even if he WAS, I'm not sure you could prove or even argue his intent there, as he didn't swing at the puck hard at all. The 2nd 1 definitely looks (and IS) worse, but again, in this situation there has to be intent. Don't think they were a tired group and the dude wasn't even really pressured or anything. Nothing short of a dumb play for many reasons, but it looked to me like a combo of the guy not knowing his surroundings (defenseman nearby, proximity to boards/glass) and the puck "rolling" on him and coming off his stick wrong. Again, its all about intent, and there's no reason for that guy to just shoot it out at that point.

The cherry on top was both the linesman messing up the icing in the last minute of the game during a pretty important sequence.

I really hate the "delay of game" penalty when the puck is inadvertently shot out of the rink while trying to clear the zone, regardless of who it is called against. The intent of the rule is to prevent deliberate attempts to freeze the action, but a 2-minute penalty goes far beyond what is just in most cases. Very few players are so stupid as to deliberately lift the puck out of the rink in front of the referee, but when the puck is shot out and doesn't hit something on the way, the refs are required to call it. Really a stupid rule that goes way overboard in fixing an alleged problem!

 

[thebus88]

And the main reason I watched this game is because I'm a CBJ fan and want to see Gavrikov as much as possible. Every time I see him play, he seems like "the real deal". Is it safe to say he is 1 of the best (if not THE best) overall "defensive oriented" Russian defenseman currently? I don't see him much, but he seems to be extremely smart on the ice, both with and without the puck, and in all 3 zones.

And while he clearly isn't as agile or quick of a skater, or as "good" with the puck as some of their other defenseman I think its terrible that he isn't used in "offensive situations" or when the team "needed a goal". His lack of ice time at the end of the game bothered me. He had a huge impact on both of the 2 goals they scored. He seems to have a very "heavy" shot, and the intelligence to get the puck though bodies. Could have helped when Kovy and others kept shooting it off Slovaks left and right.

​

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

I am out of the loop, with this loss, what does Russia need to do to move onto the next round? Do they still control their fate?

 

[Jaaanosik]

I am out of the loop, with this loss, what does Russia need to do to move onto the next round? Do they still control their fate?

Yes, it appears big hockey countries need help in advancing

Everybody moves onto the next round in this Olympics. The first four teams have a bye in the next round.

 

[thebus88]

I really hate the "delay of game" penalty when the puck is inadvertently shot out of the rink while trying to clear the zone, regardless of who it is called against. The intent of the rule is to prevent deliberate attempts to freeze the action, but a 2-minute penalty goes far beyond what is just in most cases. Very few players are so stupid as to deliberately lift the puck out of the rink in front of the referee, but when the puck is shot out and doesn't hit something on the way, the refs are required to call it. Really a stupid rule that goes way overboard in fixing an alleged problem!

Couple reasons I think that the NHL or "new" delay of game penalty is called the way it is:

-- One is that I think they want(ed) to keep stoppages of play down along with a "subtle" way that helps keep the puck in the defensive zone to increase scoring. The onus is on the defensive player to keep the puck down, closer to guys attempting to keep it in, or be penalized for it. Again, all for increased scoring, IMO.

--The other is that I think because of how the "old rule" was/is written. It can be very hard to tell if a high level hockey player is shooting a puck out intentionally or not. The main (only?) time it was ever really called was when a team was on some sort of disadvantage (PK, broken stick, tired players) and they were looking for or wanted a whistle. That's my main point why I don't think either of them should have been called today. I don't think either guy intended for the puck to go out.

Don't really like the "new" rule, but I "get it". Nobody gets an advantage. Just gotta go off the glass. A rule I don't like, and think is stupid, and is sadly beginning in youth hockey, is no longer being able to ice the puck while shorthanded. Just dumb.

BUT THAT LEAVES THE REAL QUESTIONs...Did these refs forget which rules to enforce? Did the teams forget? Yak, if I understand you, you seem to believe they are using the "new" rules and that the penalties were correct? But the commentator made reference that they were using the "old"/IIHF rules I believe. I really don't know. I also wonder if the top Euro leagues -SWE-FIN-SUI-GER and KHL use the "new" rules or not and where these refs came from. Too lazy to look. Even if they called these 'delay of games' right (100% didn't if going by "old" rules imo) still a terribly officiated game.

 

[Yakushev72]

The only ones that were giving gold medal to Russia are name struck people. Sure Datsyuk, Kovalchuk, Mozyakin names sound sexy , but they are almost 40 years old, be realistic. If they would be in their prime, sure, that line could be top even with best NHL, but now... njet...

Second point... Znarok. How this guy is still in charge ??? The only success he had was with loaded russian roster against not very loaded other teams. And nothing more, like he does it KHL. Russia really needs scotty bowman type coach and serious team selection, not on names, but play and results.

It is not the end of the world, Russia had some bad starts to tournaments and turn it around. Positive point is that Znarok will be gone if they dont medal.

But Russian federation needs to do some serious changes, sure situation is much better that those late 1990, early 2000 years but now it is stagnating... KHL also needs to implement salary cup, make league competitive , it will benefit national team in long run. But this is another topic...

Or, how about an Anatoli Tarasov-type coach, or even a Viktor Tikhonov? Those guys sure look good in the mirror of history.

 

[Yakushev72]

Couple reasons I think that the NHL or "new" delay of game penalty is called the way it is:

-- One is that I think they want(ed) to keep stoppages of play down along with a "subtle" way that helps keep the puck in the defensive zone to increase scoring. The onus is on the defensive player to keep the puck down, closer to guys attempting to keep it in, or be penalized for it. Again, all for increased scoring, IMO.

--The other is that I think because of how the "old rule" was/is written. It can be very hard to tell if a high level hockey player is shooting a puck out intentionally or not. The main (only?) time it was ever really called was when a team was on some sort of disadvantage (PK, broken stick, tired players) and they were looking for or wanted a whistle. That's my main point why I don't think either of them should have been called today. I don't think either guy intended for the puck to go out.

Don't really like the "new" rule, but I "get it". Nobody gets an advantage. Just gotta go off the glass. A rule I don't like, and think is stupid, and is sadly beginning in youth hockey, is no longer being able to ice the puck while shorthanded. Just dumb.

BUT THAT LEAVES THE REAL QUESTIONs...Did these refs forget which rules to enforce? Did the teams forget? Yak, if I understand you, you seem to believe they are using the "new" rules and that the penalties were correct? But the commentator made reference that they were using the "old"/IIHF rules I believe. I really don't know. I also wonder if the top Euro leagues -SWE-FIN-SUI-GER and KHL use the "new" rules or not and where these refs came from. Too lazy to look. Even if they called these 'delay of games' right (100% didn't if going by "old" rules imo) still a terribly officiated game.

I agree. It is kind of like trying to do something a problem that really isn't a problem in the first place.