Gretzky not receiving the Calder, nor the Art Ross in 1979/80...

[tazzy19]

How the NHL decided on the 1979/80 Art Ross Trophy as NHL scoring leader in Gretzky's rookie year has always baffled me (yes, I said "rookie year"...more on this later). They used Dionne's edge in goals (53 to 51) as a tie breaker, which made no sense whatsoever since a goal and an assist are both worth 1 point. They have equal value. They could just as easily have said, "let's use assists as a tie breaker," as neither one makes any sense (but it would have made no sense on a completely equal level). They should have used points per game as a tie breaker (obviously), which would have given the Art Ross to Gretzky -- giving him the Art Ross 11 times out of a possible 20 years (55% of his career), and 8 in a row. If I was Dionne, I'd give Gretzky my Art Ross from 79/80....but I'm not Dionne.

Also very strange how they didn't give the Calder to Gretzky on the basis he played for a "professional" league prior to the NHL (the WHA), when they did give the Calder to Makarov (at age 30), after he literally played for years in a professional league. It also didn't make sense because he wasn't eligible to win the Calder (an NHL award) while playing for the WHA. It's like the matrix tricked the rest of us in the known universe into believing this kid came out of nowhere for the first time ever playing in the NHL without ever being a rookie. Poof, magic, here he is....now pretend that he was always here! And let's take away his scoring title too! Riggghht. Again, made no sense whatsoever. Gretzky got screwed over [MOD] in both cases. This would have given Gretzky the rookie scoring record had he been eligible for the Calder and, I believe, would have been the first and only time a player has won all 3 of these awards in one season -- the Hart, The Calder, and the Art Ross.

End of rant.​

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[K Fleur]

The Art Ross goals tie-break had already been used in 1962 so it's not like the NHL set some kind of precedent with Gretzky.

I think Gretzky will be ok. The dude can always look at his like 40 other NHL trophies if for some reason he starts to feel down about this.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

There’s a video of Gretzky getting three phantom assists at the end of 79-80. He didn’t touch the puck nor was he on the ice. He didn’t really score 137

 

[The Panther]

How the NHL decided on the 1979/80 Art Ross Trophy as NHL scoring leader in Gretzky's rookie year has always baffled me (yes, I said "rookie year"...more on this later). They used Dionne's edge in goals (53 to 51) as a tie breaker, which made no sense whatsoever since a goal and an assist are both worth 1 point. They have equal value. They could just as easily have said, "let's use assists as a tie breaker," as neither one makes any sense (but it would have made no sense on a completely equal level). They should have used points per game as a tie breaker (obviously), which would have given the Art Ross to Gretzky -- giving him the Art Ross 11 times out of a possible 20 years (55% of his career), and 8 in a row. If I was Dionne, I'd give Gretzky my Art Ross from 79/80....but I'm not Dionne.

Also very strange how they didn't give the Calder to Gretzky on the basis he played for a "professional" league prior to the NHL (the WHA), when they did give the Calder to Makarov (at age 30), after he literally played for years in a professional league. It also didn't make sense because he wasn't eligible to win the Calder (an NHL award) while playing for the WHA. It's like the matrix tricked the rest of us in the known universe into believing this kid came out of nowhere for the first time ever playing in the NHL without ever being a rookie. Poof, magic, here he is....now pretend that he was always here! And let's take away his scoring title too! Riggghht. Again, made no sense whatsoever. Gretzky got screwed over [MOD] in both cases. This would have given Gretzky the rookie scoring record had he been eligible for the Calder and, I believe, would have been the first and only time a player has won all 3 of these awards in one season -- the Hart, The Calder, and the Art Ross.

End of rant.​

I don't think there should be any "tie-breaker" in the Art Ross, so Gretzky should not have won it in 1979-80 over Dionne. The Art Ross is purely for most point scored. Period. So, both Dionne and Gretzky should have shared the award in 1980 (likewise Lindros and Jagr in '95).

Of course, the Calder thing is ridiculous and makes no sense. One of the fun ironies of NHL history is that the more incompetently-managed the League is, the more entertaining the on-ice game is.

 

[Beau Knows]

There’s a video of Gretzky getting three phantom assists at the end of 79-80. He didn’t touch the puck nor was he on the ice. He didn’t really score 137

Even if that's true how many were incorrectly awarded to someone else instead of to him over the course of the season?

 

[Doctor No]

There’s a video of Gretzky getting three phantom assists at the end of 79-80. He didn’t touch the puck nor was he on the ice. He didn’t really score 137

If the official scorer had him down for 137, then he had 137.

 

[tazzy19]

Even if that's true how many were incorrectly awarded to someone else instead of to him over the course of the season?

It's not true if he's speaking of the game against Toronto near the end of the season at Maple Leaf Gardens. I only counted one phantom assist (and even that one, he might have touched the puck in his own end).

 

[tazzy19]

I don't think there should be any "tie-breaker" in the Art Ross, so Gretzky should not have won it in 1979-80 over Dionne. The Art Ross is purely for most point scored. Period. So, both Dionne and Gretzky should have shared the award in 1980 (likewise Lindros and Jagr in '95).

Of course, the Calder thing is ridiculous and makes no sense. One of the fun ironies of NHL history is that the more incompetently-managed the League is, the more entertaining the on-ice game is.

I agree they should have shared the Art Ross, but IF they had to choose only one player (going by that premise as that was obviously the case), then they should not have used goals (or assists) to do it since they are both of equal value. Simple as that. If they have to pick only one player, then PPG at least would not rely on ridiculously arbitrary value propositions.

 

[tazzy19]

The Art Ross goals tie-break had already been used in 1962 so it's not like the NHL set some kind of precedent with Gretzky.

I think Gretzky will be ok. The dude can always look at his like 40 other NHL trophies if for some reason he starts to feel down about this.

I heard that someone jumped off a bridge in 1962 as well. It still doesn't mean we should jump off bridges in 2020, and that they should have jumped off bridges in 1979/80. Same goes for slavery and many other things. If they used goals as a tie breaker in 1962, then it was wrong in 1962 as well.

 

[Jets4Life]

I heard that someone jumped off a bridge in 1962 as well. It still doesn't mean we should jump off bridges in 2020, and that they should have jumped off bridges in 1979/80. Same goes for slavery and many other things. If they used goals as a tie breaker in 1962, then it was wrong in 1962 as well.

lol....slavery....really?

Having said that, I thought it was BS that Gretzky did not win the Calder Trophy. It was probably meant to punish WHA players, for signing underage with the league.

The Art Ross should have went to Dionne, on account of a tie-breaker. I don't hear too many people complaining about teams that finish with more wins in the regular season, beating out teams that have identical number of points for a playoff spot. It is what it is..

 

[Hoser]

The rule was well-known for decades prior to 1980, so in the interest of drumming up a far more interesting premise than the dull one presented: does anyone know exactly how far back goals were counted as the first tiebreaker for individual points? Obviously in the early days there were no assists, but my gut tells me goals were the first tiebreaker going all the way back to the beginning of tracking assists. Which would make the rule... about a century old now.

 

[The Panther]

Even if that's true how many were incorrectly awarded to someone else instead of to him over the course of the season?

If it helps you sleep at night while knowing that Gretzky may have been awarded one phantom assist, know also that he scored a goal in Minnesota one night where the puck went through the net, and the ref missed it completely (the game wasn't televised).

 

[tazzy19]

lol....slavery....really?

Having said that, I thought it was BS that Gretzky did not win the Calder Trophy. It was probably meant to punish WHA players, for signing underage with the league.

The Art Ross should have went to Dionne, on account of a tie-breaker. I don't hear too many people complaining about teams that finish with more wins in the regular season, beating out teams that have identical number of points for a playoff spot. It is what it is..

Ok, slavery was a bit much, I agree, but the point still stands (no pun intended)! I wasn’t arguing that there shouldn’t be a tie breaker (though maybe they should have shared the award as Panther suggests). I was arguing the tie breaker shouldn’t be based on goals, which have the exact same (1 to 1) value as assists. If you use goals as a tiebreaker, you are implying that goals have more value than assists...but the problem with that is, well, they don’t. (Otherwise a goal would be worth 1.5 points or 2 points...or an assist would be worth half a point...or what have you...but it isn’t.) Your comparison with wins being used for tiebreakers in overall team standings is not the same thing, as wins are worth 2 points and ties are only worth 1 point. Again, goals and assists are worth one point each.

 

[Jets4Life]

Ok, slavery was a bit much, I agree, but the point still stands (no pun intended)! I wasn’t arguing that there shouldn’t be a tie breaker (though maybe they should have shared the award as Panther suggests). I was arguing the tie breaker shouldn’t be based on goals, which have the exact same (1 to 1) value as assists. If you use goals as a tiebreaker, you are implying that goals have more value than assists...but the problem with that is, well, they don’t. (Otherwise a goal would be worth 1.5 points or 2 points...or an assist would be worth half a point...or what have you...but it isn’t.)

One can make the same argument about teams that are tied in points in the regular season, and can argue two OT losses should equal a win, since both count in the standings as two points. However, the NHL considers the team with more regulation/OT wins superior to a team with as many points, but less regulation/OT wins. An argument can be made that goals are more important than assists, considering two assists can be awarded on every goal.

Personally, I like the fact that the player with the most goals wins the Art Ross, if a tie-breaker should be required. If goals and assists are truly equal, why is more emphasis placed on goal scoring? Players like Bossy, Hull, Richard, Ovechkin, and Laine have stood out due to their ability to excel as snipers. In general, snipers like Ovi sell the game better than play-makers.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

The Calder thing was BS and just sour grapes over the WHA.

The Art Ross Ross thing was legit - using goals as a tiebreak makes perfect sense, and was used in seasons both before and after 1980.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

There’s a video of Gretzky getting three phantom assists at the end of 79-80. He didn’t touch the puck nor was he on the ice. He didn’t really score 137

oh but let me guess you also have a video of mario not being credited for a clear assist in some random game against washington in february of 1989.

I agree they should have shared the Art Ross, but IF they had to choose only one player (going by that premise as that was obviously the case), then they should not have used goals (or assists) to do it since they are both of equal value. Simple as that. If they have to pick only one player, then PPG at least would not rely on ridiculously arbitrary value propositions.

imo points/game being the first tie breaker would be an even bigger farce. imagine player a scores 125 points in the full 82 games. player b has also scored 125 points but has one game left. let’s also say he knows he would lose whatever the second tie breaker is. are we really going to give him a trophy for sitting on his butt and eating popcorn in the press box instead of trying to get #126?

 

[McFlash97]

There’s a video of Gretzky getting three phantom assists at the end of 79-80. He didn’t touch the puck nor was he on the ice. He didn’t really score 137

No man

That's just your eyes. The puck is black.

 

[Beau Knows]

If it helps you sleep at night while knowing that Gretzky may have been awarded one phantom assist, know also that he scored a goal in Minnesota one night where the puck went through the net, and the ref missed it completely (the game wasn't televised).

That was my point, that something like that or a missed assist probably happened somewhere over the course of the season.

 

[Midnight Judges]

There’s a video of Gretzky getting three phantom assists at the end of 79-80. He didn’t touch the puck nor was he on the ice. He didn’t really score 137

You should post the video, if it really exists.

Unfortunately, your recent posts demonstrate a clear pattern of false statements, and should not be believed otherwise.

 

[Midnight Judges]

If the official scorer had him down for 137, then he had 137.

Not trying to defend the guy, but there actually is a significant variance in what scorers count from arena to arena, and despite the NHL claiming they review points to ensure consistency, it is obvious that they do not:

Some NHL Stars Get More Assists At Home Than They Deserve

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

I heard that someone jumped off a bridge in 1962 as well. It still doesn't mean we should jump off bridges in 2020, and that they should have jumped off bridges in 1979/80. Same goes for slavery and many other things. If they used goals as a tie breaker in 1962, then it was wrong in 1962 as well.

This is the weirdest attempt at creating an analogy that I’ve ever seen.

 

[Seanaconda]

How the NHL decided on the 1979/80 Art Ross Trophy as NHL scoring leader in Gretzky's rookie year has always baffled me (yes, I said "rookie year"...more on this later). They used Dionne's edge in goals (53 to 51) as a tie breaker, which made no sense whatsoever since a goal and an assist are both worth 1 point. They have equal value. They could just as easily have said, "let's use assists as a tie breaker," as neither one makes any sense (but it would have made no sense on a completely equal level). They should have used points per game as a tie breaker (obviously), which would have given the Art Ross to Gretzky -- giving him the Art Ross 11 times out of a possible 20 years (55% of his career), and 8 in a row. If I was Dionne, I'd give Gretzky my Art Ross from 79/80....but I'm not Dionne.

Also very strange how they didn't give the Calder to Gretzky on the basis he played for a "professional" league prior to the NHL (the WHA), when they did give the Calder to Makarov (at age 30), after he literally played for years in a professional league. It also didn't make sense because he wasn't eligible to win the Calder (an NHL award) while playing for the WHA. It's like the matrix tricked the rest of us in the known universe into believing this kid came out of nowhere for the first time ever playing in the NHL without ever being a rookie. Poof, magic, here he is....now pretend that he was always here! And let's take away his scoring title too! Riggghht. Again, made no sense whatsoever. Gretzky got gypped in both cases. This would have given Gretzky the rookie scoring record had he been eligible for the Calder and, I believe, would have been the first and only time a player has won all 3 of these awards in one season -- the Hart, The Calder, and the Art Ross.

End of rant.​

the nhl cared about the wha stealing some of its profits and were bitter is why the wha is the only other league they considered professional for that rule

 

[bobholly39]

Not trying to defend the guy, but there actually is a significant variance in what scorers count from arena to arena, and despite the NHL claiming they review points to ensure consistency, it is obvious that they do not:

Some NHL Stars Get More Assists At Home Than They Deserve

I must say - im absolutely shocked this story is about Crosby.

 

[JackSlater]

Don't really care. Gretzky led the NHL in scoring, along with Dionne, and was clearly the best rookie that year. The NHL having a few too many rules for some of the trophies doesn't change these things.

 

[Gambitman]

I have always been ok with Gretzky not receiving the Calder. I mean the NHL and WHA were leagues of similar strength(NHL obviously stronger but they were both tier 1 leagues) and if you let Gretzky compete for Calder you have to let everyone else who was WHA only compete as well. I think there is a bias to letting Gretzky be eligible because he was so young. I think Gretzky wins obviously, but he probably would have been up against players like Mike Rogers and Mark Howe. I can’t figure out if Mark was defence by then because if he was he might have actually given Gretzky a run for his moneyS

The crazy inconsistent part was letting Makarov win.