Gretzky forgot about the Olympics

Discussion in 'International Tournaments' started by Big Phil, May 25, 2004.

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  1. Big Phil

    Big Phil Registered User

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    My question here is what made Canada so succcessful in Salt Lake? The fact that we iced the best team we possibly could. With the exception of Thornton not being there over Nieuwendyk and Fleury (who both played well I thought) the team was almost identical to what most people thought. Now instead of learning those lessons Gretzky does what every other GM has done for Canada when picking the teams. They were picked blindly.
    In 1998 Bobby Clarke doesnt have Messier on the team but he has Rob Zamuner? Ouch. And Trevor Linden? Also Scott Niedermayer was not on that team with the big olympic ice but Desjardins was. Hmmmm.
    In 1996, Patrick Roy doesnt get an invite to the World Cup after winning a Stanley Cup but Cujo coughs up the final game after spending half a season in the minors for holding out.
    Now Gretzky picks a team that had everyone's jaw dropping. I thought it was a bad dream at first. But please Kirk Maltby on Team Canada just makes me spit! This is over a guy named Paul Kariya who had two 100 point seasons in his career nad has one bad season and Gretzky dismisses him? Poor choice. And Brendan Morrow and Draper make me ill as well. Drpaer has done nothing over his career and has a decent season and he's in? What about Peca? Madden? Or Primeau? At least have a guy who's gonna check and be able to score a couple of goals. My picks would have. Doan is not bad, he'd have been my worst pick on my team but on Gretzk's team he's in the middle of the pack. And as for Belfour you know Quinn was in on that. He doesnt want his star goalie to be mad at him (again!). Look I like Eddie, but he's 39, and what if Kovalchuk is coming in on him in overtime and his back gives out? I'd have gone with Theodore for sure. The defence is all right but maybe Bouwmeester should have taken Regehr's spot.
    But for forward I'd have removed Yzerman and put in Lecavalier. I mean come on Stevie has been great but he was almost blind and is also 39. Draper's gone and I'd put Peca or Madden in there. And get Maltby (croak) out of there and throw in Kariya. And remove Morrow and put in Tanguay or Nash. Gretzky had an opportunity to improve Canada from Salt Lake believe it or not and he failed. If we lose I would blame Gretzky for his blind faith. Not saying we may not still have the best team on paper, but wouldn't ou feel more safe going up against the Russians or Swedes with this line up?

    Brodeur, Luongo, Theodore

    Pronger, Blake, Jovanovski, Foote, Niedermayer, Redden, Brewer, Regehr (questionable but he'll do I guess)

    Kariya - Lemieux - Heatley (scary stuff)
    Gagne - Sakic - Iginla
    Tanguay - Thornton - St. Louis
    Smyth - Madden - Doan (there's a real checking line that can score)
    Extras: Lecavalier, Marleau, Richards and If an injury comes then Nash. (I'd feel confident with any of these guys in the lineup)
     
  2. I agree.

    Canada could have made their team erven better.

    Guys like Kariya, Primeau, and whether you like him or not, Bertuzzi, should be on this team.

    I agree with Belfour's selection though. It is good to have one dependable veteran in there rather than a very streaky Theodore.

    However....Kariya, Primeau, and Bertuzzi should have definitely been in there somewhere.

    But just like you said, Canada can still win with the team they did pick. They are still the favourites with the team they picked.

    But also like you said, it would have probably been easier to win if they had of taken the guys I suggested.
     
  3. LOL!!
     
  4. Higgy4

    Higgy4 Registered User

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    I'll say it again. You Team Canada fans are going to love watching Draper and Maltby (and Doan, for that matter) kill penalties.

    I am biased a bit, obviously. But those 2 are widely acknowledged for being one of the best (if not THE best) penalty killing tandem in the NHL.

    Kariya is not that great of a penalty killer...he is coming off his worst season...AND there are still numerous questions surrounding his health. I love Paul Kariya too...I really like the way he plays. But he isnt a "safe" pick this time around.

    I think Primeau will make it on the squad one way or another, so everyone upset about that one needs to chill for a bit. I think he'll be on the roster eventually.

    But I really think alot of you are selling Draper and Maltby short. They played last year in the World Championships together with Doan, and from all accounts were very, very dominant. Not that they scored a ton of goals, mind you. But they shut down the opposition. Thats what Gretzky wanted. This isnt an ALLSTAR game people. Its a tournament. You need guys that fit roles. And Draper and Maltby fit a great role for Team Canada.
     
  5. Rabid Ranger

    Rabid Ranger 2 is better than one

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    Good post. It's a shame more people aren't in line with your way of thinking.
     
  6. Bob Clarke Fan Club

    Bob Clarke Fan Club Registered User

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    Agreed...there's more to hockey than looking cute in drills...Kariya has fallen quicker than I've ever seen a player fall. Hopefully it's an apparition and he comes out of it. I don't see a problem leaving him off....Primeau plays both ways and could be there...probably will be. You need the foot soldiers and Gretzky recognizes this....congrats on having the bag to pick the role players too Gretz. Bobby Clarke did pick a dismal team that year. :mad:
     
  7. Broadway Brett

    Broadway Brett Registered User

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    Agreed. Gretzky picked good scorers, and good penalty killers. He didn't try to make an all-star team, a la NYR the past few years, but rather made a VERY talented group, that will have a ton of chemistry together.
     
  8. leafaholix*

    leafaholix* Guest

    So, another thread by a guy *****ing about how bad a job Wayne Gretzky did putting a team together... and what Wayne should have done.

    You know there's like 4 or 5 threads you could have posted this in.
     

  9. I understand all of this. And I commend you for actually providing support to your arguments, rather than just go to the tired "why doubt Gretzky when he led them to the Olympic Gold Medal?"

    I just think that the following could have done:

    Morrow ----> Bertuzzi
    Gagne ----> Kariya
    Maltby ----> Primeau

    Bertuzzi gives you the edge that Morrow does, but provides aboiut twice the offensive ability. Plus, who does any other country have, besides the Slovak's with Chara, that could stop Bertuzzi if he parked himself in front of the other teams net? Nobody on the defense of the Swede's, Czech's, Russian's, Finn's, German's, or the American's would be able to be strong and quick enough to stop Bertuzzi.

    Kariya is not a Selke candiate when it comes to defense. But he also isn't brutal either. I have heard two coaches (Ron Wilson and Mike Babcock) of Kariya's say that Kariya was one of their better penalty killers and defensive zone coverage guys. Kariya won't drill anyone though the end boards, and he won't shut anyone down defensively, but he will provide competent defensive play through smart positioning and anticipation. He doesn't give much up, if anything at all, to Gagne in terms of defense. And he brings much greater offensive upside.

    Primeau provides huge size and leadership and clutch play for a 4th line. I can see why you would want the chemistry of Maltby-Draper together. But let's not forget that Primeau once plated with Yzerman and had good chemistry. Yzerman also has had decent chemistry in the past with Draper. Which is why my ideal checking/defenisve line would have been: Yzerman-Draper-Primeau. Or you could even put Primeau and Draper on separate lines, and have a defensive concience on two lines. Put Primeau with Thornton and maybe Heatley, and just let Thornton and Heatley roam around the offensize zone free while Primeau covers up for them.

    I just think that Canada could have done better than they did. They could definitely still win, but their team could have been better.
     
  10. Ajacied

    Ajacied Stay strong Appie! ❤

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    If the selection of Brenden Morrow makes you ill, you'll be in for quite a surprise.
     
  11. wilka91*

    wilka91* Registered User

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    nothin
     
  12. markov`

    markov` Registered User

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    Agree with you. But I keep saying Kariya should take Morrow's place. You said it, Doan - Draper - Maltby is great for a shutdown line, so why Morrow?
     
  13. KariyaIsGod*

    KariyaIsGod* Guest

    Exactly.

    Where do people get off saying Primeau is and better than Draper?

    Primeau has ONE GOOD PLAYOFF and all of the sudden he's Wayne Gretxky and Mario Lemieux combined.

    Let's not forget that Draper clearly showed this season he has the ability to put the puck in the net. These were good selections.

    Same with Doan. How can you knock the Doan selection?
     
  14. wilka91*

    wilka91* Registered User

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    KariyaIsGod, Kariya SUCKS. :banghead:
     
  15. Vyse64

    Vyse64 N64

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    the team is great
    it's to play hockey and not ice an all-star team

    Gret and co. picked the team for SLC, just trust them to make the best choices for the team
     
  16. surixon

    surixon Registered User

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    Shows how much you know, Karyia had an 81 point year last year and is a big factor in his team making it to the stanly cup finals. This year Karyia is injured and misses 31 games do to injury and naturaly dsn't play as well when he comes back. A brocken wrist isn't an easy injury to overcome and greatly reduces your ability to shoot the puck hard. This greatly hampered Karyia as his shot is one of his primy offensive weapons because of this Karyia had to resort to the role of a playmaker(which he can also do really well). But the lack of a hard shot still was a problem as people keyed in on the passing lanes knowing he would try to pass instead of shoot. I ask you to take a look at mike york and mike comrie in edmonton as an example, before their rist and arm injuries they were playing excellent hockey(much like Karyia was at the begining of this year) but when they came back they were very ineffective. Both had problems scoring due to playing in a cast and like Karyia the both had very ineffective shots. We also didn't get to see what Karyia could do in this years playoffs cause he was injured as well. and to the player who says Karyia is falling quickly I strongly disagree, He was right up there in leage leaders in points until his injury and it isn't a stretch to say that hed still be there if he stayed healthy all year.
     
  17. SChan*

    SChan* Guest

    i love the new zelda hemsky
     
  18. PecaFan

    PecaFan Registered User

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    I have no problem with Maltby and Draper. They are what they are, and they do it well.

    I actually have more of a problem with Marleau, Yzerman, and Smyth to some extent. Marleau's there because he was the "It" boy of the playoffs at the time. Yzerman is great, but he's at the end of his career, and practically lost his freakin' eye, is he even going to be able to see the ice? Smyth has been loyal to Team Canada whenever asked, but that doesn't seem to be the greatest reason to pick a guy over better players.
     
  19. Dave Carlson

    Dave Carlson Registered User

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    And Primeau has showed in the past that he can put the puck in the net as well, much more consistently then Draper. Primeau had ONE BAD REGULAR SEASON regarding point totals, but that is excluding the ALL STAR job he did checking and leading all year long
    I'm not saying that Primeau is better then Draper and it was a bad selection since Draper did have a great season and is a great checking player who can score, but you are underestimating Primeau.
     
  20. habsfan9

    habsfan9 Registered User

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    YES primeau and bertuzzi should definetly be there, yet we do not need a player liek kariya, cuz no it isnt an all start game, we dont have 2 have teh same team as the olympics, times have changed, i woudl definetly liek 2 see rick nash on the lineup, hes a really good big scorer, could play with heatley, but therres no doubt canada is able 2 win this year, and the approach gretzky took on the squad this year is questionable yes, but i think he will prove all skeptics wrong this summer, he knows what hes doing. :bow: ITS WAYNE GRETZKY FOR HEAVENS SAKE! :bow:
     

  21. You say Kariya shouldn't be on the team because it isn't an all-star game, then you go and say Nash should be?

    To be honest with you, Nash is an all-star game style player. He is total offense and no defense.

    If Nash goes then so does Kariya, because as of right now Kariya is still a superior player.

    Kariya is a better all-around offensive player than Nash, and he isn't the liability Nash is in the defensive end.
     
  22. Oh, and also, why do so many people think that just because Wayne Gretzky picked the team than it must be good?

    I mean, yes Gretzky picked the Gold Medal winning team in 2002, but anyone could pick a Canadian National Team and have good odds at winning.

    Plus, hasn't anyone paid attention to what has happened with the Coyotes since Gretzky joined their organization? They have become worse since he took over. The Coyotes used to be a perennial playoff team or playoff contender, and now they miss the playoffs by 20 points.

    Now I know Gretzky isn't the GM of the Coyotes. But his buddy Barnett is, and you would think that if Gretzky was such a genius that he would know enough to fire this guy since it obviously isn't working.

    And if Gretzky was so great as a GM, why doesn't he just become the GM of the Coyotes?

    It is probably because he knows it might hurt his legacy as he wouldn't have the entire Canadian stable of players at his disposal, and thus would end up sinking the Coyotes.
     
    Last edited by moderator : May 25, 2004
  23. sonnytheman

    sonnytheman Registered User

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    how about something that EVERYBODY forgets:

    Canada played 1 good game in the Olympics, and it was the gold medal game. Just one. So let's not say that it was the best picked team ever.



    And also, do people not suppose that Gretzky may have learned from mistakes he made in the Olympics? The team was being criticized from everyone after the round-robin, and I'm sure he noticed what was missing. I think this team is much better than the one fielded in Salt Lake. The key term there is TEAM.
     
  24. Rotting Corpse*

    Rotting Corpse* Registered User

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    There are always going to be omissions with team Canada. It's as simple as that. I think the team is fine.
     
  25. Tuggy

    Tuggy Registered User

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    Excellent points, most of which have been overlooked by a lot of people. Too many have forgotten that the team at SLC didn't steamroll everyone.

    This team going to the World Cup is more well rounded and suited to win then that team was. Elite scoring, elite defense, elite defensive forwards and elite goaltending. The TOTAL package.
     
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