Greatest Playmakers Of All-Time: #3

[GlitchMarner]

Who is the third greatest playmaker of all-time?


Apply your own criteria.


#1. Wayne Gretzky
#2. Mario Lemieux

Click to read more...

 

[amnesiac]

Orr
Oates
Forsberg
Crosby

are we adding McDavid to the polls?

 

[bobholly39]

Orr now, easily. Gets hard after.

Agree that if we're including active players McDavid should be here as he starts to be part of the conversation at #3

 

[Albatros]

Adam Oates, delivered at an epic level with so many different scoring partners. Arguably more so than even Gretzky or Lemieux.

 

[Xspyrit]

 

[BackToTheBasics]

Gordie should definitely be an option. He has a better case for being on this list than just about every player in the poll. Howe finished top 5 in assists 17 times! He was also top 10 in assists in every season from 1948-1969. That's 22 consecutive seasons of domination in the assist category.

 

[amnesiac]

Gordie should definitely be an option. He has a better case for being on this list than just about every player in the poll. Howe finished top 5 in assists 17 times! He was also top 10 in assists in every season from 1948-1969. That's 22 consecutive seasons of domination in the assist category.

hes 67th all time in A/GP

he led the league in assists a few times, but was usually in the top 6 or so. Hes up there, but not THAT high.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

hes 67th all time in A/GP

even adjusted hes not that high

His assists per game are going to be low because he played in a low scoring era, less games in those seasons and he played until 50 which is obviously going to hurt per game numbers. What matters is what he did at his peak. He has 3 assist titles (same as Lemieux) and 10 top 3 finishes (more than Lemieux and Orr). How many of the listed options have 3 assist titles and/or 10 top 3 assist finishes?

Howe: 3x 1st, 10x top 3
Oates: 3x 1st, 7x top 3
Francis: 2x 1st, 3x top 3
Thornton: 3x 1st, 8x top 3
Crosby: 1x 1st, 5x top 3
Coffey: 0x 1st, 4x top 3
Jagr: 3x 1st, 6x top 3
Dionne: 0x 1st, 5x top 3
Trottier: 2x 1st, 2x top 3
Clarke: 2x 1st, 3x top 3
Forsberg: 1x 1st, 3x top 3
Mikita: 3x 1st, 6x top 3
Bourque: 0x 1st, 1x top 3
Sakic: 0x 1st, 2x top 3

Pretty obvious that Howe is way better than Francis, Crosby, Coffey, Dionne, Trottier, Clarke, Forsberg, Bourque and Sakic. Oates/Thornton/Jagr/Mikita equal him with 3 assist titles but Howe beats them all in top 3 finishes.

 

[amnesiac]

His assists per game are going to be low because he played in a low scoring era, less games in those seasons and he played until 50 which is obviously going to hurt per game numbers. What matters is what he did at his peak. He has 3 assist titles (same as Lemieux) and 10 top 3 finishes (more than Lemieux and Orr). How many of the listed options have 3 assist titles and/or 10 top 3 assist finishes?

Howe: 3x 1st, 10x top 3
Oates: 3x 1st, 7x top 3
Francis: 2x 1st, 3x top 3
Thornton: 3x 1st, 8x top 3
Crosby: 1x 1st, 5x top 3
Coffey: 0x 1st, 4x top 3
Jagr: 3x 1st, 6x top 3
Dionne: 0x 1st, 5x top 3
Trottier: 2x 1st, 2x top 3
Clarke: 2x 1st, 3x top 3
Forsberg: 1x 1st, 3x top 3
Mikita: 3x 1st, 6x top 3
Bourque: 0x 1st, 1x top 3
Sakic: 0x 1st, 2x top 3

Pretty obvious that Howe is way better than Francis, Crosby, Coffey, Dionne, Trottier, Clarke, Forsberg, Bourque and Sakic. Oates/Thornton/Jagr/Mikita equal him with 3 assist titles but Howe beats them all in top 3 finishes.

Forsberg??? the guy whos 5th all-time in A/GP and played all his career in the DPE? thats a big no. ANd then Crosby whos 6th all-time..... I know you ONLY hate him because you have a love affair with Ovie, so Im not even going there.

I mean Howe IS up there, but not one of the next guys. ANd to say he has "more top 3 finishes than Lemieux and Orr".... I mean, do I really have to explain the longevity comparison here? come on now.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Forsberg??? the guy whos 5th all-time in A/GP and played all his career in the DPE? thats a big no. ANd then Crosby whos 6th all-time..... I know you ONLY hate him because you have a love affair with Ovie, so Im not even going there.

I mean Howe IS up there, but not one of the next guys. ANd to say he has "more top 3 finishes than Lemieux and Orr".... I mean, do I really have to explain the longevity comparison here? come on now.

Forsberg also played very little hockey after turning 30, so that's going to boost his per-game stats.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Forsberg??? the guy whos 5th all-time in A/GP and played all his career in the DPE? thats a big no. ANd then Crosby whos 6th all-time..... I know you ONLY hate him because you have a love affair with Ovie, so Im not even going there.

I mean Howe IS up there, but not one of the next guys. ANd to say he has "more top 3 finishes than Lemieux and Orr".... I mean, do I really have to explain the longevity comparison here? come on now.

I don't care about per game stats as much as what players actually accomplished at their best. Do you think Bossy is the GOAT goal scorer? I mean look at his GPG. Howe at his peak won 3 assist titles which is tied 1st out of all the options. Since you mentioned them, Howe has more top 3 finishes than Crosby and Forsberg combined. And finishing top 3 isn't just "longevity", it means you're the elite of the elite. Also, I compared Howe to all of the options not just Crosby so I don't know what your point is with the OV/Crosby comment.

 

[Albatros]

Forsberg also played very little hockey after turning 30, so that's going to boost his per-game stats.

Though he had 0.89 assists per game in his 30s, compared to his career average of 0.90 there was as good as no drop at all.

 

[amnesiac]

I don't care about per game stats as much as what players actually accomplished at their best. Do you think Bossy is the GOAT goal scorer? I mean look at his GPG. Howe at his peak won 3 assist titles which is tied 1st out of all the options. Since you mentioned them, Howe has more top 3 finishes than Crosby and Forsberg combined. And finishing top 3 isn't just "longevity", it means you're the elite of the elite. Also, I compared Howe to all of the options not just Crosby so I don't know what your point is with the OV/Crosby comment.

So what's Howes A/GP avg during say his 10 or 15 prime seasons then? I understand that his longevity dipped his per game stats much like Thornton and Jagr for example.

The fact that Crosby is 6th all time over 15 seasons now mostly in a relatively low scoring era is pretty damn impressive if you ask me. Do you not agree?

 

[SillyRabbit]

Orr for #3 is the clear choice.

But for #4 it’s tough.

Looking at era adjusted assists, the highest single seasons after these top 3 belong to Jagr, Thornton and Francis. (Excluding shortened seasons and seasons prior to 1930).

I think Francis and to a lesser extent Thornton are being underrated for their all-time great playmaking ability.

I’m surprised that people think Oates should rank above Francis.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

So what's Howes A/GP avg during say his 10 or 15 prime seasons then? I understand that his longevity dipped his per game stats much like Thornton and Jagr for example.

The fact that Crosby is 6th all time over 15 seasons now mostly in a relatively low scoring era is pretty damn impressive if you ask me. Do you not agree?

Howe has the same # of top 3 APG finishes as Crosby (7). Crosby gets the edge for doing it in a 30 team international league. However, imo Howe gets a bigger edge because he had 10 real top 3 assist finishes to Crosby's 5. And again, this isn't just about Crosby. Before getting to Crosby I'd have Howe before Francis, Coffey, Dionne, Trottier, Clarke, Bourque and Sakic.

Yes it is impressive, he is one of the all time greats.

 

[The Red Line]

Gets interesting from here on out.

I hope this doesn't just become a list of whoever has the most assists, and rather who the true best playmakers were.