Greatest Goalie of All time #1

Ogopogo*

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Why do you have Hodge so high? Just curious.

Twice he was voted the 2nd best goalie in the NHL and both of those seasons he received serious consideration for the Hart Trophy.

Again, I am measuring dominance, not longevity and simply being 'good' (Moog etc.) IMO, finishing 4th or 5th in Hart balloting and being voted the 2nd best goalie in the NHL is pretty dominant.
 

Sens Rule

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Sep 22, 2005
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Twice he was voted the 2nd best goalie in the NHL and both of those seasons he received serious consideration for the Hart Trophy.

Again, I am measuring dominance, not longevity and simply being 'good' (Moog etc.) IMO, finishing 4th or 5th in Hart balloting and being voted the 2nd best goalie in the NHL is pretty dominant.

Hodge played 16 post season games in a career that went until he was 38 and mostly on a team that won the Cup every second season. He was 7-7 in the playoffs. He played more than half his teams regualr season games 3 times in his entire career and in 64-65 Worsley was the playoff goalie moreso than Hodge on a team that Hodge led for the regular season. Hodge was a great back-up goalie. Nothing more and nothing less. He is the 1960's equivalent of Ron Tugnutt.

Putting Hodge at 34th all-time undermines your list a great deal.
 

Ogopogo*

Guest
Hodge played 16 post season games in a career that went until he was 38 and mostly on a team that won the Cup every second season. He was 7-7 in the playoffs. He played more than half his teams regualr season games 3 times in his entire career and in 64-65 Worsley was the playoff goalie moreso than Hodge on a team that Hodge led for the regular season. Hodge was a great back-up goalie. Nothing more and nothing less. He is the 1960's equivalent of Ron Tugnutt.

Putting Hodge at 34th all-time undermines your list a great deal.

I don't recall Tugnutt being a 2nd team all-star even once and he was never considered for a Hart Trophy.

I don't measure how many mediocre seasons a player had, just the great ones. If I did, you could make a case for Messier not being very good. His last 7 years, he was just an old guy hanging on, padding his stats.
 
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Sens Rule

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Sep 22, 2005
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I don't recall Tugnutt being a 2nd team all-star even once and he was never considered for a Hart Trophy.

I don't measure how many mediocre seasons a player had, just the great ones. If I did, you could make a case for Messier not being very good. His last 7 years, he was just an old guy hanging on, padding his stats.

Charlie Hodge is not the 34th greatest goalie ever. Not even in the top 100. He was a great back-up. He had a couple of great seasons. He played until he was 38 in the NHL and was the predominant goalie on his team 3 times. Once of those those he didn't make the playoffs (Golden Seals) and 1 of the 2 times in Montreal he was spelled for the playoffs. So once in like a 20 year career he was a starter and the playoff golaie of record. And he played on a dynasty team most of his career.

Being considered for the Hart does not make Hodge, or Theodore or Liut an all time great goalie. Playoff success and 10 or 15 or more years of being ag reat goalie does.

If you look only at peak then Knabulin, Jim Carey and Cam Ward look like great all-time goalies. They aren't. Ward might be but you need to check in 2015 if he is a great All-time Goalie not right now.
 

Ogopogo*

Guest
Charlie Hodge is not the 34th greatest goalie ever. Not even in the top 100. He was a great back-up. He had a couple of great seasons. He played until he was 38 in the NHL and was the predominant goalie on his team 3 times. Once of those those he didn't make the playoffs (Golden Seals) and 1 of the 2 times in Montreal he was spelled for the playoffs. So once in like a 20 year career he was a starter and the playoff golaie of record. And he played on a dynasty team most of his career.

Being considered for the Hart does not make Hodge, or Theodore or Liut an all time great goalie. Playoff success and 10 or 15 or more years of being ag reat goalie does.

If you look only at peak then Knabulin, Jim Carey and Cam Ward look like great all-time goalies. They aren't. Ward might be but you need to check in 2015 if he is a great All-time Goalie not right now.

I guess we will agree to disagree. Thanks for the input.

As I have said before, IMO, winning one Smythe trophy is a greater accomplishement than simply being good for 10 years. You think differently and that is your right.
 

arrbez

bad chi
Jun 2, 2004
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Toronto
Liut also finished 2nd to Gretzky in the Hart balloting in 1981.

Their ratings are very close but, Liut finishes a hair ahead of Belfour because he had much more serious consideration for the Hart Trophy during his career. The gap between the two is very narrow, I am not saying Liut had a significantly greater career, he is just ahead by a nose.

Again, when I get the additional data I need, Belfour may end up ahead of Liut.


As an interesting side note: It seems that Leaf fans have the most difficulty with my lists. At least, I get more comments about Leaf players being too low on the lists than any other players. ;)


Hey, don't get me wrong, Eddie was great for use for 2 seasons...but I was leading the charge last year to run him out of town.

I'm in no way attached to the guy emotionally. However, just looking over his accomplishments, I think he should be a whole lot higher on your list.

I realize that your list is based on dominant years, but there's something to be said for being consistantly excellent your whole career, which Belfour generally was untill last season. Liut had some very good seasons, and one outstanding one. However, he wasn't as consistant as Belfour, and wasn't nearly as good in the playoffs.
 

ScaredStreit

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May 5, 2006
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Plante.

Add Billy Smith! He's easily the most underrated goaltender in this thread. 4 Stanley Cups in a row, 19 playoffs series wins in a row (record). Hands down the best post-season goaltender of all time. If you have a game in the post season on the line-Smith easily.

Swept Edmonton in 83-even shutting out their amazing offense. I really don't see how he's #29 on that list. He should be an option to vote for (although I personally wouldn't just yet). He's ahead of Hasek and Brodeur in my oppinion easily.
 

kruezer

Registered User
Apr 21, 2002
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North Bay
I can never make up my mind, there are very good arguments that can be made for many different goalies on this list, but I went with Plante in the end.

add Bernie Parent.
 

Bluesfan1981

Registered User
Mar 21, 2006
591
2
USA
Charlie Hodge is not the 34th greatest goalie ever. Not even in the top 100.

I'm not sure, but I think his list is just about dominance, which doesn't necessarily mean greatest. I don't think he's saying that Hodge is the 34th greatest ever, or that Jose Theodore and Cam Ward are already two of the 50 greatest goalies of all time.
 

arrbez

bad chi
Jun 2, 2004
13,352
261
Toronto
Plante.

Add Billy Smith! He's easily the most underrated goaltender in this thread. 4 Stanley Cups in a row, 19 playoffs series wins in a row (record). Hands down the best post-season goaltender of all time. If you have a game in the post season on the line-Smith easily.

Swept Edmonton in 83-even shutting out their amazing offense. I really don't see how he's #29 on that list. He should be an option to vote for (although I personally wouldn't just yet). He's ahead of Hasek and Brodeur in my oppinion easily.

Just because he won them all in a row, doesn't necessarily mean he was the best at it. Patrick Roy won 4 as well, and he was the MVP 3 times...which clearly puts him ahead of Smith in my books, not to mention a number of others.
 

Jordoe28

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Sep 3, 2005
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I don't recall Tugnutt being a 2nd team all-star even once and he was never considered for a Hart Trophy.
.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Ron Tugnutt played in the 1999 NHL All Star game. It was due to the fact that Curtis Joseph got injured, but he had an incredible season that year breaking the NHL record for lowest GAA and finishing second in the league in save percentage at .925.
 

B Boarding

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Feb 26, 2005
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If Hasek's not the best goalie ever I'm not going to take any discussions regarding goalies serious in this forum. I don't care about the number of cups, because hockey is a team sport. He can't help that Buffalo was a weak team. But if you look at what Hasek did in 94-01 he is up there with Lemieux, Gretzky and Orr in pure dominance and individual awards. And he´s prime was just as long as Orr's!
 

Bear of Bad News

Your Third or Fourth Favorite HFBoards Admin
Sep 27, 2005
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If Hasek's not the best goalie ever I'm not going to take any discussions regarding goalies serious in this forum.

Okay! Let us know when you change your mind about your inability to accept others' opinions and arguments!

:shakehead
 

Bear of Bad News

Your Third or Fourth Favorite HFBoards Admin
Sep 27, 2005
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Correct me if I'm wrong but Ron Tugnutt played in the 1999 NHL All Star game. It was due to the fact that Curtis Joseph got injured, but he had an incredible season that year breaking the NHL record for lowest GAA and finishing second in the league in save percentage at .925.

All of this is true (http://hockeygoalies.org/bio/tugnutt.html); however, the all-star team being referred to is the postseason NHL all-star team.

Tugnutt finished third in that voting:

Code:
[font=courier new]
Dominik Hasek       220
Byron Dafoe         121
Ron Tugnutt          52
Curtis Joseph        46
Ed Belfour           36
Martin Brodeur       21
Arturs Irbe           4
Patrick Roy           4
[/font]
 

Sens Rule

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Sep 22, 2005
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If Hasek's not the best goalie ever I'm not going to take any discussions regarding goalies serious in this forum. I don't care about the number of cups, because hockey is a team sport. He can't help that Buffalo was a weak team. But if you look at what Hasek did in 94-01 he is up there with Lemieux, Gretzky and Orr in pure dominance and individual awards. And he´s prime was just as long as Orr's!

I would agree at peak performance Hasek is the best. But Hall, Sawchuk, Plante, Roy had far longer careers as starters and all were dominant throughout their careers. It is like comparing Mario and Orr to Gretzky. Most have Gretzky number 1overall because not only was he dominant he had one of the longer careers in NHL history. Mario and Orr usually are 2nd-4th on all-time lists (Howe) because Gretzky had the better career.

Also Dryden and Durnan were very dominant in shorter careers like Hasek. Hasek's was unlucky in a way to be on a weaker team. If he had 3 or 4 Cups he might be looked at as a potential number 1 all-time by many hockey fans. With just one Cup on a stacked team his career doesn't look as great as Roy with 4 Cups.

I personally think Hasek was the best at his peak of any goalie ever. Quite a few would disagree with that though. And I voted Roy #1 and Sawchuk #2 in these polls.
 

Jordoe28

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however, the all-star team being referred to is the postseason NHL all-star team.

Tugnutt finished third in that voting:

Code:
[font=courier new]
Dominik Hasek       220
Byron Dafoe         121
Ron Tugnutt          52
Curtis Joseph        46
Ed Belfour           36
Martin Brodeur       21
Arturs Irbe           4
Patrick Roy           4
[/font]

Oh, I wasn't aware that there was a post season All Star Team. I'm curious, what year is that from, and how does the voting work? I know Tugnutt played exceptional during Pittsburgh's 2000 playoff run. Is that the year this voting is from?
 

B Boarding

Registered User
Feb 26, 2005
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Stockholm, Sweden
I would agree at peak performance Hasek is the best. But Hall, Sawchuk, Plante, Roy had far longer careers as starters and all were dominant throughout their careers. It is like comparing Mario and Orr to Gretzky. Most have Gretzky number 1overall because not only was he dominant he had one of the longer careers in NHL history. Mario and Orr usually are 2nd-4th on all-time lists (Howe) because Gretzky had the better career.

Also Dryden and Durnan were very dominant in shorter careers like Hasek. Hasek's was unlucky in a way to be on a weaker team. If he had 3 or 4 Cups he might be looked at as a potential number 1 all-time by many hockey fans. With just one Cup on a stacked team his career doesn't look as great as Roy with 4 Cups.

I personally think Hasek was the best at his peak of any goalie ever. Quite a few would disagree with that though. And I voted Roy #1 and Sawchuk #2 in these polls.



How come everybody think that Orr's the best defender ever but the same arguments about greatness doesn't count for Hasek among goalies? Orr's career was short but very dominating and impressive. I also think he was the best ever. But nobody can deny that Hasek was the best goalie in the world for just as long as Orr was the best defender. And they both was the best by far. They both won Norris/Vezinas and the both won Harts. After Marios retirement Hasek was the most dominant hockeyplayer in the world until the Millenium. And he's still good, I think he came 2nd in SVS% last season.
 

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