Discussion in 'Soccer' started by lud, Dec 11, 2018.
Busquets ish probably 2nd only to Rijkaard.
He played before my time.
Still say DDR is underrated, though.
Even he didnt play defensive midfield his whole career, Matthäus for me.
Great offense (scored over 200 goals in his career) Does another of those players comes even close?
Great defense and leader too.
I waited 2 pages and no one mentioned Bakayoko? SMH.
Nonsense, nonsense and...
Benzema should get a shout.
Probably fighting Ascacibar somewhere.
I have no idea why some people can't understand that to deny someone "sucks" is saying they're great. It's like talking to children. Useless really. Then you have other rocket scientists throwing names like Benzema because I said he was underrated here.
Really sometimes, it's amazing. This site is just amazing. I guess when you can't prove your smartness through your football posts, you try with piss poor attempts at trolling. Useless tries though.
The mention of Benzema was a joke that had nothing to do with you, or him being underrated.
Not sure where this is coming from TBH... My post was purely out of humour. Not a shot at you, didn't even think of you when I posted.Just mentioned a random DM... I would've just as likely mentioned Casemiro had he not been stupidly named already.
In any case, not sure how Baka's whereabouts fit into my post... but A for effort I guess. He'd lose in a fight with Santi anyway.
He’s not the best DM ever, but Keane is definitely up there with the best. My vote goes to Biscuits or Viera if we’re counting him.
No love for Mattheus? Really?!?
I think many voters are to young. They didnt have the chance to see him play.
For me he was a easy vote. But if i had to vote the generations before (Cruyff/Pele),
some of my ratings would be questionable too.
Wanyama or Busquets
I've seen them both and Mattheus was superior. Better in almost every department, scoring included.
Yeah I agree with Mattheus better than Rijkaard.
But he's still a prick.
I think the question could be formed better.
Defensive midfielder is a position - but the roles differ.
A holding midfielder is a role that was most popular for "destroyer" players for a long time, a guy vital to the team but very limited in build-up play and technically not necessarily great (but still a top player - recent examples are Makelele, Gattuso, Mascherano, Keane, etc.) - and then guys like Busquets, Xabi Alonso, Vieira (when he played DCM) made for more well-rounded players who could either make runs with the ball or pass it forward.
If you grew up in Croatia in the 80s/90s, you were either a Juve or Milan fan - and Rijkaard was fantastic. He was a lot like Vieira, maybe not as good at making runs, but his positioning was perfect, decision making fantastic and he knew when to attack open spaces offensively.
Matthäus was more of a box-to-box midfielder who sometimes played DM or dropped deep to carry/pass the ball.
Speaking of box-to-box midfielders who were used in a DM role, or even semi-registas at the time, Demetrio Albertini was huge for the great Milan sides of the 90s and for Italy - but hardly ever gets mentioned anywhere.
Capello's Milan used a narrow midfield where Desailly and Albertini were playing low, in a DM position (just different roles)- and then bringing the play forward to Boban and Donadoni who in charge of feeding Savicevic, Massaro, etc.
That 4-man midfield absolutely destroyed the 3-man midfield of Barca in the 94 final for example, and Desailly and Albertini, though very different, played something of a double-pivot but with Boban and Donadoni much narrower than classic wingers that are used in a 4-2-3-1 today.
Savicevic would then go out wide and create chaos. It was the best game I watched, tactically - and yes, I was like 13 when I saw it live, but I must've watched it 20 times on tape since.
And then you have the pure registas, the deep lying playmakers, who are the focal point of their teams build-up, but aren't necessarily defensive juggernauts. Very rarely do these guys have the acceleration to burst pass people, but the top players are fantastic at making themselves open and making sure the ball moves and their teammates have passing options.
Pirlo is a classic example, and in today's game Jorginho and Brozovic are probably the best examples. If you watch Chelsea and Inter play, literally every motion goes through them.
Redondo was more a regista than a two-way player as well.
My point is, I wouldn't necessarily say comparing players in a "defensive midfielder" position is fair to the player.
Comparing players in the same roles might be better.
Also, it's very hard to judge midfielders of the early 80s, 70s and before, who I've read about and seen very limited highlights - but in order to appreciate a midfielder you really do need to watch the game; basing opinions off highlights and reputation when it comes to midfielders is... well, stupid, to be blunt.
Even if I were to divide by the roles, and just do the 80s, 90s and 2000s... It would still be very hard to pick "the best one".
Some played on better teams where it was easier to look better, some were enablers and rarely got credit, some are just too different from each other to compare.
The above is a great post.
Perhaps this is an English perspective, having grown up watching a league where there was tantamount to a belief that no other way of playing existed apart from 4-4-2, but I think defensive midfielder is an incredibly difficult role to compare across time. Sure, there are variations within 4-2-3-1, but that system is arguably the friendliest to defensive and central midfielders, with the narrow 4-3-3-ish formation not far behind. Admittedly, the changes to the backpass, tackling from behind and offside rules also mean that their defensive duties are more important than ever, so as usual evolutions bring challenges as well as benefits.
Even if we limit the conversation to the 1994 Brazilian World Cup team, I think Mauro Silva was a significantly superior player, whether we measure longevity in European football or centrality to the success of the teams for which he played.
Aha, the argument that means Phil Neal is England's greatest ever footballer.
Like Corto, I think of Matthaus (I still can't be bothered to master umlauts, I'm afraid) more as a box-to-box midfielder.
Separate names with a comma.