Greatest Defenceman of All Time #9

[canucksfan]

Lidstrom won with 29 votes and Earl Seibert will be added next. I am voting for Coffey and add Clapper next.

#1.Orr(89.26%)
#2.Shore(37.00%)
#3.Harvey(52.33%)
#4.Bourque(54.84%)
#5.Potvin(61.84%)
#6.Robinson(31.71%)
#7.Kelly(27.69%)
#8.Lidstrom(32.58%)

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[God Bless Canada]

Add Dit Clapper. First player to play 20 NHL seasons. Had the three-year waiting period waived for the HHOF, at a time when many players waited 10 or 20 years. First team all-star three straight years. An true legend for the Boston Bruins. A versatile, wonderful all-round player.

 

[kovy1335]

voted Coffey, add Clapper

 

[Nifty=HHOF]

Brad Park, far too underrated

 

[JWINK19]

I'm staying with Pilote and Clapper.

 

[kruezer]

Fetisov again, add Rod Langway.

 

[Jumptheshark]

voted coffey add Pronger

Can not believe you all voted Lidstrom as a better then Coffey

Borque and Coffer where the same player

 

[God Bless Canada]

voted coffey add Pronger

Can not believe you all voted Lidstrom as a better then Coffey

Borque and Coffer where the same player

Bourque was much better defensively than Coffey. Coffey was an awesome offensive defenceman (likely the second-best all-time) who was average defensively. Bourque was a terrific offensive defenceman (a step below Coffey, even though Bourque had more regular season points) who, at his peak, was widely regarded as one of, if not the best, defensive defenceman in the game.

I agree that Coffey is better than Lidstrom. I think if you polled most people here in a straight-up Coffey vs. Lidstrom debate, Coffey would win. But there was a considerable vote split, with many who would support Coffey voting for others. (Chelios, Park and Fetisov. I voted for Chelios, but only after it was clear that Lidstrom would win). There were a number of people who voted for Lidstrom that seemed to be voting against Coffey, and vice versa.

Incidentally, I think Chelios and Fetisov are better than both. But Chelios will lose votes simply because people do not like him (I love Chelios' game, but he's not a good example of a human being) and Fetisov is victimized by playing his prime years in the USSR.

 

[El_Scoobo]

Voted for Paul Coffey and add Clapper.

 

[El_Scoobo]

voted coffey add Pronger

Can not believe you all voted Lidstrom as a better then Coffey

Borque and Coffer where the same player

Bourque and Coffey were the same player??? I don't know where you get that from but I certainly watched different games than you did. Paul was not near as strong defensively and that became more and more apparent as his speed diminished.

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

Voted Chelios, add Pronger.

Just wondering about the support for Fetisov. Is this a poll for the best d-man or best NHL d-man. If it's for best d-man based on his entire resume, Fetisov should have probably been somewhere in the 4-6 range. If it's for his play in the NHL, he doesn't belong in this poll.

 

[God Bless Canada]

Voted Chelios, add Pronger.

Just wondering about the support for Fetisov. Is this a poll for the best d-man or best NHL d-man. If it's for best d-man based on his entire resume, Fetisov should have probably been somewhere in the 4-6 range. If it's for his play in the NHL, he doesn't belong in this poll.

It's a best defenceman poll. The problem is, he will be punished because he didn't play his prime years in the NHL, and many voters will only vote for what they saw, instead of doing their research and finding out what kind of player Fetisov really was. I'd say he should be No. 9 (I'll take Chelios ahead of Fetisov, too), but I'll take Fetisov ahead of Coffey, Lidstrom or Park. It wouldn't surprise me to see Fetisov go at No. 10, I think he'll get a lot of voters who chose Coffey (although there might also be a considerable vote shift to Stevens), but it wouldn't surprise me to see Fetisov drop to 13-15, simply because a lot of voters won't choose a guy who didn't spend his prime years in North America. (Much like Chelios will receive a backlash because he's a jerk).

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

(Much like Chelios will receive a backlash because he's a jerk).

So were Potvin and Shore, but it didn't seem to hurt their standing. Harvey was no sweetheart either.

 

[rigger]

I'm sorry but how can Lidstrom be ahead of Coffey. I mean I like Lidstrom and think he is amazing but Coffey!!!!! The guy defined skating, he defined rushing the puck, he was a sniper from the point could pass to anyone anywhere. He also was great at defense. Then again I am an oiler fan I might over rate him but I truly believe he is a top 5 defender of all time.

I also think Pronger will be in the top 10-15 defense men of all time after his time in edmonton. He will lead the league in points by a defense man next season. He is the best defensive defense man in the game today I believe and is great on the pp.

 

[God Bless Canada]

So were Potvin and Shore, but it didn't seem to hurt their standing. Harvey was no sweetheart either.

Well, Shore barely beat Bourque for No. 2, and a couple people mentioned that they didn't vote for Shore because Shore was a jerk. In the case of Harvey, he basically retained his support from No. 3, and got all of Shore's support. (The people who voted for Shore, myself included, paid more attention to how he played the game, not what kind of person he was off the ice or behind the bench).

As for Potvin, he might have had more support against Bourque, although his personality deficiencies aren't as well chronicled as Shore and Chelios.

The other factor that might weigh down on Chelios is the fact he's still playing, so those who ignorantly vote based solely on what they've seen will be more apt to hold it against Chelios, and vote for Coffey, Stevens or MacInnis.

BTW, I voted for Chelios. There isn't a defenceman remaining on this list who could dominate all facets of the game like Chelios, or carry his team on his back for extended periods of time like Chelios. (Although Fetisov is darn close).

 

[Jumptheshark]

Bourque and Coffey were the same player??? I don't know where you get that from but I certainly watched different games than you did. Paul was not near as strong defensively and that became more and more apparent as his speed diminished.

well I was only a season tix holder that watched Coffey everyday while he was an oiler

 

[norrisnick]

I'm sorry but how can Lidstrom be ahead of Coffey. I mean I like Lidstrom and think he is amazing but Coffey!!!!! The guy defined skating, he defined rushing the puck, he was a sniper from the point could pass to anyone anywhere. He also was great at defense. Then again I am an oiler fan I might over rate him but I truly believe he is a top 5 defender of all time.

I also think Pronger will be in the top 10-15 defense men of all time after his time in edmonton. He will lead the league in points by a defense man next season. He is the best defensive defense man in the game today I believe and is great on the pp.

Coffey isn't even a top 100 "defender" of all time. He may be a top 5 "player who lined up as a defenseman" of all time, but not a defender.

 

[Nihilism]

Chelios not among the ten best defenders of all-time?

 

[rigger]

Chelios not among the ten best defenders of all-time?

Quoted for effect, this man speaks the truth.

 

[norrisnick]

Quoted for effect, this man speaks the truth.

Well, he might be if people stopped voting for Coffey.

 

[canucksfan]

Chelios not among the ten best defenders of all-time?

Chelios should be in the the top ten but I think he will be 11th. I have Chelios ninth on my list. The problem is that Lidstrom went too early. Chelios is better than Lidstrom. Chelios could dominate a game in a lot of different ways. I have Lidstrom 12th on my list.

I don't understand why people think Coffey shoudn't be in the top ten of greatest defencemen of all time. Coffey is the second best offensive defenceman of all time only behind Bobby Orr. Granted, he was only above average at best defensively, but he played in an era where offence counted first not defence. He helped Edmonton win three Cups and won another one with Pittsburgh.

 

[norrisnick]

Chelios should be in the the top ten but I think he will be 11th. I have Chelios ninth on my list. The problem is that Lidstrom went too early. Chelios is better than Lidstrom. Chelios could dominate a game in a lot of different ways. I have Lidstrom 12th on my list.

I don't understand why people think Coffey shoudn't be in the top ten of greatest defencemen of all time. Coffey is the second best offensive defenceman of all time only behind Bobby Orr. Granted, he was only above average at best defensively, but he played in an era where offence counted first not defence. He helped Edmonton win three Cups and won another one with Pittsburgh.

Lidstrom could/can dominate offensively and especially defensively. Those are the only two ways that matter. He didn't have to be a bruiser because his style of play allowed him to completely neutralize the opponent's bruisers trying to do their work down low in Detroit's end. Not to mention that it allowed him to stay on the ice more than any other guy he went up against.

By playing a passive defensive style it allowed him to avoid penalties which hurt the team, avoid getting out of position to make a big hit which hurts the team, as well as avoid injuries which also hurt the team (he's only ever missed 18 games in his career, most of those healthy rest/scratches late in the season when the standings were already set). He made the defensive play and got the puck going back the other way. And he did that better and quicker than most everyone else.

He's not dynamic, but that doesn't mean he's not deserving of top 10 status. If he were anything more than an above average skater he'd be giving the top 4 a run for their money.

 

[Wisent]

Fetisov all the way.

 

[canucksfan]

Lidstrom could/can dominate offensively and especially defensively. Those are the only two ways that matter. He didn't have to be a bruiser because his style of play allowed him to completely neutralize the opponent's bruisers trying to do their work down low in Detroit's end. Not to mention that it allowed him to stay on the ice more than any other guy he went up against.

By playing a passive defensive style it allowed him to avoid penalties which hurt the team, avoid getting out of position to make a big hit which hurts the team, as well as avoid injuries which also hurt the team (he's only ever missed 18 games in his career, most of those healthy rest/scratches late in the season when the standings were already set). He made the defensive play and got the puck going back the other way. And he did that better and quicker than most everyone else.

He's not dynamic, but that doesn't mean he's not deserving of top 10 status. If he were anything more than an above average skater he'd be giving the top 4 a run for their money.

As a defenceman there is one more way you can dominate a game and that is physically. Lidstrom has never done that. A lot of great defencemen have that aspect to their game.

Not all penalties are bad. If you take a roughing penatly or fight someone late in a game to send a message, that's not a bad penatly to take. Furthermore, making big hits can get a team going. It also causes the other players to have their heads up.

I don't think he's deserving of top 10 status because he isn't good enough to be in their. He really lacks in the physical side of the game. I'd rather play against Nick Lidstrom than Scott Stevens just because Stevens might take my head off. You are really underrating the physical side of the game. Even though he has won a Conne Smythe I am not a big fan of his in the playoffs. He seems to play better when he has a lot of defensive depth playing along side of him. You have seen this in recent years. The Wings' defence has got worse over the years. Lidstrom hasn't been able to be the go to guy in the playoffs. He got badly out played by Pronger this playoffs and the Wings have only won one round when he has been their true #1 defenceman.

 

[kovy1335]

Coffey isn't even a top 100 "defender" of all time. He may be a top 5 "player who lined up as a defenseman" of all time, but not a defender.

Semantics...

I doubt that rigger meant by "defender" "best at defending"

By the way, If a player gets beat, then skates back and catches the guy anyway, isn't he still defending? And didn't it work?