Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by begbeee, May 10, 2011.
Who is it?
Kris Draper did a lot impact as a role player.
Would Esa Tikkanen count?
When does the "modern era" start? If you mean post-expansion, it would probably be someone on the 70s Candiens or 80s Islanders.
Bobby Holik and John Madden have to be up there. Madden actually led the 2003 Devils forwards in playoff ice time, despite technically being on the third line.
I consider modern era starts in 1967 with expansion.
Bobby Holik, good call!
Yup, elite enough third line grinder to get 9 million per year in free agency
I dont know, try to argue why. Didnt he play 1st line with Gretzky and Kurri?
1. Bobby Holik (better than Draper at everything altough Draper has more achievments)
2. Kris Draper
2nd tier guys:
I would say that Draper was a far superior penalty-killer (Holik didn't even kill penalties) and a much better skater.
While I tend to think he's overrated it's Bob Gainey.
Guy Carbonneau maybe.
Pure 3rd Line
Pure 3rd line would be Bob Gainey by far given that he could be relied on to play against and reduce the effectiveness of elite RWs like Mike Bossy, Rick Middleton and others.
Below Gainey, you would have the following honourable mention guys Guy Carbonneau, Bob Nystrom, Kris Draper,who were also pure 3rd line types.
Bobby Holik???? Considering that at times he was the Devils leading scorer, calling him a 3rd liner is rather interesting.
Agree. Though Holik was a better even strength player overall.
I have no idea why John Madden is considered "second tier" here. What makes Draper better?
tikkanen played on the top line with gretzky and kurri, and he was later a top six forward (and really their best offensive player), so i don't think we can count him.
but to be fair it's tough to 3rd line grinder, because most of the best ones had stretches where they were not only legitimate top 6 guys, but very good top 6 guys. a personal favourite of mine, martin gelinas, fits this bill.
i guess the kinds of guys that TDDM mentions, defensive specialists like madden, holik, and i'd add gainey and carbonneau, and a little farther down the list, joel otto, probably are the cream of the crop. but remember that all those guys did their time if not on higher lines then with the equivalent of top six icetime, especially in the playoffs.
Were Gainey and Carbs really third liners?
If they count, they are obviously at the top of the list.
Holik was a third/fourth liner on successful teams. When he was used as a scorer, his teams folded.
Because I value also the points not only their grinder or defensive skills. I mean best player who spent his career mostly on 3rd line and his style was grinding.
Madden 2nd tier? It is hard to compete with Holik when you have more than 500 games less and 400 points less. Good player always finds a job.
Joel Otto another good call, great faceoff man.
with the exception of tikkanen, who really shouldn't count, madden has best offensive playoff season of anyone mentioned in this thread,* and no one but nystrom is close.
* accounting for era
So then why is Draper over Madden?
Sami Pahlsson had an amazing season in '07....just saying
Without giving it too much thought, the first players that come to mind are Gainey, Carbonneau, Tikkanen, Keane, Holik, Madden, Draper, Otto, Podein.
Does it matter if they'd make first/second on most other teams.
Because Igor Larionov was the 3rd line center for the Wings, although there was some interchange with that.
Mike McPhee has to be up there if we're talking about grinders.
Going back to the O6 era would have to include Ron Stewart*, Eric Nesterenko*, Ralph Backstrom*, Marty Pavelich, Metro Prystai, Ron Murphy*, Jerry Toppazzini, putting grinding in context with the modern era.
*=played in the modern era as well.
Given the way he could skate (one of the fastest and most graceful skaters ever), stickhandle and pass, I'd hardly call Ralph Backstrom a grinder, although he was a superb defensive player. Had he been on any team but the Canadiens, where he played behind Jean Beliveau and Henri Richard, he would not have been on the third line at all. When he got playing time on the Canadiens' first two lines for appreciable stretches through long-term injuries to Beliveau or Richard, he did very well in scoring, too--both goals and points. The fact is that Backstrom excelled whatever the role assigned to him. But, if you ignore the "grinder" element of the original poster's question, yes, indeed, Backstrom was one of the NHL's greatest third-line players.
I'd have to think it's Gainey, then everyone else.
Separate names with a comma.