Speculation: Great player, to great for the OHL?

[Wafflewhipper]

He could come in to camp and line up on the left side of either top line and succeed. Then we have a cheap scoring left winger.

 

[Fogelhund]

We know that. What? Holee

No, the OHL was put on hold for a time... Today they announced that the season was completely cancelled, no more games, no matter what happens going forward.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

No, the OHL was put on hold for a time... Today they announced that the season was completely cancelled, no more games, no matter what happens going forward.

Oh sh!t sorry man . Here i was wondering why you were posting that, sorry bro

 

[Menzinger]

Hes probably a lock for at least his 9 games

 

[The Iceman]

5'9"
162 lbs.
Great.
He will need every bit of that extraordinary try and great shot etc...
Not holding my breath.
Junior is junior.
Go the Kenny Holland route and over season him.
Don't go the Dubas route and fall in love with guys who are not ready.

One of my least fav lines ever is the "go the Ken Holland route"
Who are all the guys who fall under this category?

Just for fun I looked up the 1997/1st cup win.

Top scorers in order were:
Shanny-Played as a 19 year old
Yzerman-Played @18
Federov over from Russia straight to NHL. drafted 1989-NHL 1990
Lidstrom, 1 year in Sweden after he was drafted then NHL
Larionov-Didn't draft or develop him
McCarty-Drafted 1992, NHL 1993
Kozlov 48 AHL games
Konstantinov Russia to Detroit lineup
Lapointe 75 AHL games

Anyways point being not sure got over ripened??

 

[Kiwi]

They will give him an opportunity

If he's ready he will stick, if not he's going back to continue working on his game

Seems like a reasonably straightforward plan

 

[FraumBallard]

One of my least fav lines ever is the "go the Ken Holland route"
Who are all the guys who fall under this category?

Just for fun I looked up the 1997/1st cup win.

Top scorers in order were:
Shanny-Played as a 19 year old
Yzerman-Played @18
Federov over from Russia straight to NHL. drafted 1989-NHL 1990
Lidstrom, 1 year in Sweden after he was drafted then NHL
Larionov-Didn't draft or develop him
McCarty-Drafted 1992, NHL 1993
Kozlov 48 AHL games
Konstantinov Russia to Detroit lineup
Lapointe 75 AHL games

Anyways point being not sure got over ripened??

Yeah.
Fair point.
You would have to ask virtually everyone in the Hockey world who repeated the same thing for years.
Not saying you're wrong.
Just that like everyone in Hockey kinda saw it the same way.
Anyhow my point was Dubas is a disaster.
Robertson may be great but we NEED size.
Playoff time the big boys play big.
Can Sandin/Malgin/Johnsson/Kap/Engvall/Kerfoot/Robertson/Petan/Brooks/Bracco etc handle it?
I have serious doubts.
Even our bigger guys play small.
Clifford/Muzzin/Hyman and Kapanen ( Rarely ) are our ONLY guys who play big.
We may win a couple rounds with that passive style.
I don't think we will ever win 4 rounds with a tiny roster and Dubas is in love with the guys who play small.

 

[kb]

One of my least fav lines ever is the "go the Ken Holland route"
Who are all the guys who fall under this category?

Just for fun I looked up the 1997/1st cup win.

Top scorers in order were:
Shanny-Played as a 19 year old
Yzerman-Played @18
Federov over from Russia straight to NHL. drafted 1989-NHL 1990
Lidstrom, 1 year in Sweden after he was drafted then NHL
Larionov-Didn't draft or develop him
McCarty-Drafted 1992, NHL 1993
Kozlov 48 AHL games
Konstantinov Russia to Detroit lineup
Lapointe 75 AHL games

Anyways point being not sure got over ripened??

Exactly. Or how about the fact that the Wings traded 10 first round picks in a 20 year span, and they were in the upper echelon of the league most of that time.

So.....great team drafting near the end of the first round who sells off half of those picks over a 20 year span. It was never to overripen by design. It was by necessity. When half the time your first pick is in the latter half of the second round (or 3rd, even) and your team is near the top of the league, they have to rely on development.

 

[OB34KNH]

Yeah.
Agreed.
Chi doesn't have 8 guys his size in the system I'm guessing.
Could be wrong.
Marner is our small points guy.
Problem is we have 6 or so that aren't.
You get Patrick Kane in the playoffs and then you get Johnny Hockey in the playoffs.
I take 20 less regular season goals and want Josh Anderson in the playoffs.
Foligno ( either one ).
Reeves/Maroon/Wilson/Tkachuk/Carrier/Kadri/Manson.
2f outta those guys ( or players like them ) and Manson.
We win the Cup.
Big problem.
Dubas thinks physicality has no place.
I'm guessing Muzzin and Clifford were forced on him.
It will cost him his job if he refuses to even look for guys like that.
Sounded like Korsh and Mik were Babcock guys.
Good post.
We just have far too many of the same player and they bring Zero aside from speed.

If an offensive player doesn't produce points in a short-period of games, it doesn't mean he's playing poorly.
You don't watch hockey. Stats don't mean shit. Especially for a playmaker like Gaudreau (it's not his fault his team doesn't finish his plays). During the past 5 years, Gaudreau is top 10 in the NHL for creating PERCENTAGE OF HIGH-DANGER SCORING CHANCES. Anyone who watches hockey knows that Johnny Gaudreau tilts the ice almost EVERY-TIME he steps foot on ice. His puck-possession numbers are through the roof. He's an ELITE 1st line player. He has elite hockey-IQ. Meaning, he is an elite stick/poke checker, stick lifter.

Secondly, if you think Josh Anderson is more valuable than a guy like Johnny Gaudreau, you must be 1) smoking methamphetamines 2) Off your meds 3) Stat-watching and thinking you are some elite hockey-analyst.

Not to derail the thread, but, many idiots on HF-Boards think that a hockey player's defensive measure stems from their height and weight. That's just pure ignorance. You don't need to be 6"9, 300 pounds to play defense. I'm sure many of you giving your opinions base skill off height and weight. Laughable.

 

[OB34KNH]

There is no such thing as a "Consistent Development-Plan"
,

Every player must be developed specific to his ability and needs as a hockey player. You don't develop 2 different players in the same way.

If he has nothing to learn in the OHL, he has got to come to the NHL. Most hockey players in the OHL who have nothing to prove are sent to the NHL. If all the aspects in their game are excellent than they are ready for the NHL. Nick Robertson has NHL speed (more specifically --- he has blazing speed), amazing defensive IQ (plays on the penalty kill and has scored ~10 goals shorthanded), NHL shot, and, an ability to generate high scoring chances. He's ready for the chel. Bring him up.

 

[FraumBallard]

If an offensive player doesn't produce points in a short-period of games, it doesn't mean he's playing poorly.
You don't watch hockey. Stats don't mean shit. Especially for a playmaker like Gaudreau (it's not his fault his team doesn't finish his plays). During the past 5 years, Gaudreau is top 10 in the NHL for creating PERCENTAGE OF HIGH-DANGER SCORING CHANCES. Anyone who watches hockey knows that Johnny Gaudreau tilts the ice almost EVERY-TIME he steps foot on ice. His puck-possession numbers are through the roof. He's an ELITE 1st line player. He has elite hockey-IQ. Meaning, he is an elite stick/poke checker, stick lifter.

Secondly, if you think Josh Anderson is more valuable than a guy like Johnny Gaudreau, you must be 1) smoking methamphetamines 2) Off your meds 3) Stat-watching and thinking you are some elite hockey-analyst.

Not to derail the thread, but, many idiots on HF-Boards think that a hockey player's defensive measure stems from their height and weight. That's just pure ignorance. You don't need to be 6"9, 300 pounds to play defense. I'm sure many of you giving your opinions base skill off height and weight. Laughable.

Wow.
You completely missed the whole point.
Watch is all I do.
I hate the entire analytics thing.
Johnny Hockey was a complete bust in the playoffs because he is small and he plays small.
I would take Josh Anderson over small guy Gaudreau in the playoffs every time.
Johnny boy is starting to look like a flash in the pan.
Sounds like you are relying on numbers.
I watch.

 

[Stephen]

The Leafs have been promoting too many players too quickly lately. Some of it has been injuries, but they need to slow the roll on guys like Sandin and Robertson. Liljegren has gotten a little taste and he's been in the system longer, but slow it down.

 

[Stephen]

There is no such thing as a "Consistent Development-Plan"
,

Every player must be developed specific to his ability and needs as a hockey player. You don't develop 2 different players in the same way.

If he has nothing to learn in the OHL, he has got to come to the NHL. Most hockey players in the OHL who have nothing to prove are sent to the NHL. If all the aspects in their game are excellent than they are ready for the NHL. Nick Robertson has NHL speed (more specifically --- he has blazing speed), amazing defensive IQ (plays on the penalty kill and has scored ~10 goals shorthanded), NHL shot, and, an ability to generate high scoring chances. He's ready for the chel. Bring him up.

If Tavares and Spezza can play 4 years in the OHL, I'm sure Robertson can too.

 

[FraumBallard]

There is no such thing as a "Consistent Development-Plan"
,

Every player must be developed specific to his ability and needs as a hockey player. You don't develop 2 different players in the same way.

If he has nothing to learn in the OHL, he has got to come to the NHL. Most hockey players in the OHL who have nothing to prove are sent to the NHL. If all the aspects in their game are excellent than they are ready for the NHL. Nick Robertson has NHL speed (more specifically --- he has blazing speed), amazing defensive IQ (plays on the penalty kill and has scored ~10 goals shorthanded), NHL shot, and, an ability to generate high scoring chances. He's ready for the chel. Bring him up.

Alexandre Daigle.
Patrick Stephan.
Greg Joly.
Jason Bonsignior (sp) edm 4 oa.
Can't judge until he gets to NHL.

 

[kb]

If Tavares and Spezza can play 4 years in the OHL, I'm sure Robertson can too.

How many of those seasons were after they got drafted? 0 and 1.

 

[Stephen]

How many of those seasons were after they got drafted? 0 and 1.

On the other hand, they were also 1st and 2nd overall picks.

Guys like Brad Richards played 2+ QMJHL seasons, Jeff Carter, Mike Richards, Max Domi 2+ OHL seasons, Mathew Barzal did 2+ WHL seasons.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Watching highlights you can’t see shots off of Robertsons stick. Its very telling too because goalies don’t even move on lots of his goals. They just don’t see it because his release is quick,his shot is accurate and the velocity is high. He scores everywhere on the net, has no predictable shot, goes wherever the goalie gives him.

This guy is a elite scorer and the Leafs were sending underhill to the Petes to work with him on skating. Thats going that extra for a junior player actually. I haven’t heard of them doing that before.( possibly did but i have no recollection of it) If he can come in on a three year Elc and score immediately its another step closer to being very very difficult for teams to contain our offense. They can’t now.

The package of intensity,speed,shot,work ethic and character is there in large measures already.
Robertson/Matthews/ Marner
Mikheyev/Tavares/Nylander could be a nightmare.

Fill out the bottom six based around Kapanen,Clifford,Johnsson,Hyman. Trade out Engvall because he just is over kill on non physical,trade out Kerfoot just not physical enough, same Gauthier etc. So pick physical, energetic, defensive centers for the bottom six you like that are nasty to play against.

Lots of cap space to play a tougher brand of devensive hockey in the bottom six. Duplicate after duplicate soft skill players are what stops us from dump and chase when required and what causes us goals against.

Robertson could likely score more than Kerfoot and Engvall combined. (17 goals in 113 games combined)He’s just a pure goal scorer. So hopefully he makes the cut and we get tougher by subtraction in the botton end ofbthe forward lines. Adding a tough expierenced dman wouldn’t hurt either.

 

[kb]

On the other hand, they were also 1st and 2nd overall picks.

Guys like Brad Richards played 2+ QMJHL seasons, Jeff Carter, Mike Richards, Max Domi 2+ OHL seasons, Mathew Barzal did 2+ WHL seasons.

Brad Richards was a 3rd round pick who played 3 seasons in the Q before jumping straight to the NHL. This was Robertson's 3rd season.

And none matched his goals/game.

It's not that I think he should or shouldn't, but the reasoning that he shouldn't is flawed IMO. His play should dictate where he plays.

For the record, I believe he will go back to the OHL next season. But holding back someone who is clearly too good for his current level and shows he can play well at the NHL level is arguably worse for their development. It's a waste of a year. Like sending Marner back down in his D+2 season would have been.

 

[The Man with a Plan]

The Leafs have been promoting too many players too quickly lately. Some of it has been injuries, but they need to slow the roll on guys like Sandin and Robertson. Liljegren has gotten a little taste and he's been in the system longer, but slow it down.

One thing I always agreed with Babs about was making sure a young player was more then ready. Not just a coin toss.

Keep doing the Dubas Dance come summer and sign a couple more vets for min on show me contacts. Hes donr an excellent job at worst doing so.

 

[Stephen]

Brad Richards was a 3rd round pick who played 3 seasons in the Q before jumping straight to the NHL. This was Robertson's 3rd season.

And none matched his goals/game.

It's not that I think he should or shouldn't, but the reasoning that he shouldn't is flawed IMO. His play should dictate where he plays.

For the record, I believe he will go back to the OHL next season. But holding back someone who is clearly too good for his current level and shows he can play well at the NHL level is arguably worse for their development. It's a waste of a year. Like sending Marner back down in his D+2 season would have been.

My main reasons for wanting to keep him away would be the fact that the core group is still extremely young and the last thing we need is another kid learning the pro ropes. If we slow down that promotion and make sure the team is one year further along in development, I think it creates a better environment for him to come into, as well as cycling in a veteran in a top 9 spot to help the current group along.

The problem with letting his play dictate where he plays is it's September hockey. As we saw with Sandin and a million prospects before, what a kid looks like in camp or the first week in the NHL often does not carry over the course of 82 games.

But generally, I would prefer he go to the AHL than stay in the OHL.

 

[Battle Lin]

the way robertson is scoring at the ohl isnt just great, its really elite...he already has something that not even marner has, johnsson and kappy r just decent, nylanders is looking good but still can be better...his already great and can reach elite potential nhl shot already plays in the nhl, add the fact that hes a good skater that should only get faster, he plays hard with an edge, has great PK potential

hes good enough to play in the nhl, you never have to be an nhl star right away, hes already a 15-20 goal 10 assist winger next year that provides energy that the team and fans will love...theres tons of nhl players playing in the nhl that make less of an impact

i mean it feels like at 10 forwards that played more than a game for us this year, hes already better than

 

[cupcrazyman]

andreas johnsson. I’m done with him no matter who takes his spot, with the careless and stupid penalties he takes and his very poor play at times this year I hope we move him

Can't believe he makes that much money.

 

[Walshy7]

Can't believe he makes that much money.

honestly his money isn’t even my first thought. A player on $1m per season shouldn’t be making the plays he makes and no player should take the brainless penalties he takes. Don’t get me wrong for a 7th round pick he is a home run and teams building toward becoming playoff teams he can surely help. But for us where we are right now johnsson shouldn’t be on our team

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Johnsson was injured how many games, I don’t even know. Plays with some energy. I don’t know about trading him. We could i guess. As long as Kerfoot is gone first and the cap suggested it was Johnssons time to go too.

I kind of like his game.crap year for him. Value might be to low right now.

 

[stickty111]

Brad Richards was a 3rd round pick who played 3 seasons in the Q before jumping straight to the NHL. This was Robertson's 3rd season.

And none matched his goals/game.

It's not that I think he should or shouldn't, but the reasoning that he shouldn't is flawed IMO. His play should dictate where he plays.

For the record, I believe he will go back to the OHL next season. But holding back someone who is clearly too good for his current level and shows he can play well at the NHL level is arguably worse for their development. It's a waste of a year. Like sending Marner back down in his D+2 season would have been.

My main reasons for wanting to keep him away would be the fact that the core group is still extremely young and the last thing we need is another kid learning the pro ropes. If we slow down that promotion and make sure the team is one year further along in development, I think it creates a better environment for him to come into, as well as cycling in a veteran in a top 9 spot to help the current group along.

The problem with letting his play dictate where he plays is it's September hockey. As we saw with Sandin and a million prospects before, what a kid looks like in camp or the first week in the NHL often does not carry over the course of 82 games.

But generally, I would prefer he go to the AHL than stay in the OHL.

This is a flawed way to evaluate prospects. Imagine telling a player hey we know you ripped up training camp, but we will sent you down just because. Good way to alienate a prosoect.