Great Fight Debate - II

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DKH

The Bergeron of HF
Feb 27, 2002
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Ross Johnston can play (and hit and fight) all in a 6'5 235pd frame.
I wouldn't play him against Toronto, for example, but if I'm playing games against Detroit and they are playing Bertuzzi and Witkowski then there is definitely a spot for him on the 4th Line.
Bertuzzi is a wuss- Witkowski is relatively tough by today’s standards
 

Flannelman

Quiet, Gnashgab.
Dec 3, 2006
13,880
3,148
I’m not Lou but I have a signed Power of Attorney thru December 31, 2018 to speak on his behalf.

I’d want long term youth at forward

Studnicka or Frederic

How’d you con him into the first part? That’s a scary proposition.

I think you’re right on the second part, can’t blame philly, but that would be a tough price to pay for a rental
 

GloryDaze4877

Barely Irrelevant
Jun 27, 2006
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I do think it gets addressed but maybe next year

Neely was at the event yesterday and had I had thought about it I could have asked him if he’s thinking of suiting up on the 4th line to at least settle some scores and see what he says and his reaction- I actually am pretty sure I know what he’d say

I did say to Miller ‘I wish you were on the ice during the scrum’ and he responded emphatically he did too.

Two ways to build this if I’m GM

1. Your bottom 6 is strong defensively and many abrasive players who can hit and a couple of guys who can fight - not cheap but can play a tough hard game

2. You have a Thornton-type on your 4th line to seek retribution after tough guys like Thomas Hickey & Luke Witkowski rough up our guys

I would like to see a Marchand type instigator and a couple of guys that can score and fight when needed.

Maybe Blidh can fill one of those roles? He’s actually bigger than a guy like Bertuzzi, but you probably don’t get the same production?

I think that both Studnicka and Frederic will be guys that will be able to play and take care of themselves, but neither are 4th liners. Maybe someone can teach Senyshyn to fight?
 

GloryDaze4877

Barely Irrelevant
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The Lightning have one of the beefiest back ends, there D is like skating in a cattle heard.

Not fighters maybe but all big bodies that hit hard.


Toronto and Buffalo have had a number of great picks from sucking forever, I don't wanna suck forever.

That’s cool, but you never really addressed the point, which is that neither of the top two contenders in the B’s division have any “fighters”.
 

BruinDust

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
24,281
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Claude Giroux gave Wayne Simmonds player of the game helmet last night for setting the tone and “firing up the boys” by taking on Oleksiak.

It means nothing, though.

Well considering they are 27th in the league, and are just 2-2 in their 4 games with a fight this year (the first not even occuring until Nov. 21), can't mean that much.
 

DominicT

Registered User
Sep 6, 2009
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dom.hockey
I do think it gets addressed but maybe next year

Neely was at the event yesterday and had I had thought about it I could have asked him if he’s thinking of suiting up on the 4th line to at least settle some scores and see what he says and his reaction- I actually am pretty sure I know what he’d say

I did say to Miller ‘I wish you were on the ice during the scrum’ and he responded emphatically he did too.

Two ways to build this if I’m GM

1. Your bottom 6 is strong defensively and many abrasive players who can hit and a couple of guys who can fight - not cheap but can play a tough hard game

2. You have a Thornton-type on your 4th line to seek retribution after tough guys like Thomas Hickey & Luke Witkowski rough up our guys

I want to address number two specifically:

So you have Pastrnak, Bergeron and Marchand line out on the ice with Krug and Carlo on defence.

Someone takes a run at Bergeron and knocks him out for a month. What is that "Thornton-type guy" suppose to do from the bench? Because he certainly won't be on the ice with those 5 guys.

Now, I am sure that someone is going to say "go after their star player", And I'll respond by saying "What's the point? They're still going to be without Bergeron for 4 weeks. Tit-for-tat isn't going to bring Bergeron back any sooner, and having that "Thornton-type guy on the bench didn't stop anyone from running Bergeron.
 

KrejciMVP

Registered User
Jun 30, 2011
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Peaceful protest Bruins.

They're going to hit us anyway. Why fight back.

Only way to end this is to not spend money to support cowards like Charlie Jacob's and his puppets. In fact they should pay us to witness this disgrace
 

DKH

The Bergeron of HF
Feb 27, 2002
73,961
51,460
I want to address number two specifically:

So you have Pastrnak, Bergeron and Marchand line out on the ice with Krug and Carlo on defence.

Someone takes a run at Bergeron and knocks him out for a month. What is that "Thornton-type guy" suppose to do from the bench? Because he certainly won't be on the ice with those 5 guys.

Now, I am sure that someone is going to say "go after their star player", And I'll respond by saying "What's the point? They're still going to be without Bergeron for 4 weeks. Tit-for-tat isn't going to bring Bergeron back any sooner, and having that "Thornton-type guy on the bench didn't stop anyone from running Bergeron.
Retribution

Some bully gives my kid crap and I’m not there

Three weeks later I run into them by chance I use my A move - leg sweep into a 7 second choke hold.

When they come to I tell them next time it’s 30 seconds

I feel better and it’s always about me

I’m not saying it’s right and I accept my immaturity but it’s who I am
 

DominicT

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Sep 6, 2009
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Retribution

Some bully gives my kid crap and I’m not there

Three weeks later I run into them by chance I use my A move - leg sweep into a 7 second choke hold.

When they come to I tell them next time it’s 30 seconds

I feel better and it’s always about me

I'm all for revenge, to a point.

It still doesn't change the fact that revenge doesn't nullify the original act. Nor does it prevent it.
 
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Therick67

Registered User
Apr 6, 2009
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Peaceful protest Bruins.

They're going to hit us anyway. Why fight back.

Only way to end this is to not spend money to support cowards like Charlie Jacob's and his puppets. In fact they should pay us to witness this disgrace

They can turn the other cheek and take it like men, because what else are you going to do?

It's better to be the hammer...
 
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DominicT

Registered User
Sep 6, 2009
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dom.hockey
No, but I rather have a team that's more physical that's laying out the hits and is harder to play against. Make the other team pay the price, don't always be the one paying.

Exactly. I grew up watching 60's, 70's hockey. And I loved it.

But there are two arguments being made here.

Yours and others that just want an enforcer (or two) thinking it will solve all the problems.

And I am on your side.
 
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KrejciMVP

Registered User
Jun 30, 2011
28,422
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Exactly. I grew up watching 60's, 70's hockey. And I loved it.

But there are two arguments being made here.

Yours and others that just want an enforcer (or two) thinking it will solve all the problems.

And I am on your side.

Oh yes the we need tough guys but tough guys that don't fight debate. Good luck with that selection process.

Lets go find some toughness but interview them before to make sure they dont fight. Dont want to derail the nonsense going on in bruin land
 
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DKH

The Bergeron of HF
Feb 27, 2002
73,961
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I'm all for revenge, to a point.

It still doesn't change the fact that revenge doesn't nullify the original act. Nor does it prevent it.
When McQuaid seeked revenge for Torres hit on Ferrence I was so happy I went out in the rain found a street lined with light poles and danced like Gene Kelly.

Had McQuaid not beat Torres into a pulp I would have sulked in my chair and started a Bruins of soft thread on HF Boards
 

Baddkarma

El Guapo to most...
Feb 27, 2002
5,562
2,401
Midland TX
S0 far as Bergy being out for a month, it just happened and the Bruins, Chara included, went quietly into the night with all the dignity and grace of the 2013 Sabres.

I guess it comes down to what an organization thinks can win you games which is $$, then playoff series, and then a cup if you are one of the teams that spends to cap in the NHL.

In the "modern era", since 2000 I guess, there has not been one team that I can name that has won the cup with that I would call a strickly "speed and skill" roster. They have all had some mix of toughness and one or two heavy hitters that as far as I can tell that kept teams honest for the most part especially in the regular season.

This is critical to me because the injury that Bergeron suffered a few weeks ago was a hit IMHO would say the Bruins of 2008-2015 would have expected in the Stanley Cup playoffs, not a regular season game against a non-rival in Dallas. Yes, I'm saying that there was respect, fear, whatever for the Bruins star players in the regular season for sure a few years ago.

I think there are many factors to take into account for the Bruins current roster composition and at the top I place Sweeney and Neely. I think Sweeney has over-rated the speed and skill ratio a team needs win over a toughness (grindy), speed, and then some skill along the bottom six. Marchand and his antics have been an issue with the league and the perception of the Bruins amongst the officials for good reason. The Bruins beleving their own hype about speedy players with zero jam in their game and how they can contribute in a legit Stanley Cup franchise is starting to rear its ugly head.

So far Sweeney's draft record, trade record, and on the ice product are lacking in a great many areas including a roster that generates the respect nessessary for keeping a total scrub like Borowiechy from ruining the rookie season and maybe career of one of your top two D prospects.

Yes, the rest of the season should be a war with Ottawa. Suspensions all around for players in your bottom 6 and bottom pair D. Every game.
 

Sheppy

Registered User
Nov 23, 2011
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I would be happy if the B’s had a guy like Simmonds. Big body, can score and fight.

I’m not sure if this is directed at anybody specifically, but I do think that a good fight can fire up a team (sometimes it can backfire and get the other team going as well).

This is very different from not deterring hits and cheapshots on players, which has been my argument all along.
Simmonds is actually fairly small (well, skinny) - He’s tough as nails though, very good fighter, doesn’t lose many.
 
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Salem13

Registered User
Feb 6, 2008
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That’s cool, but you never really addressed the point, which is that neither of the top two contenders in the B’s division have any “fighters”.

I said they have addressed it by other means.

BTW I am not pro "fighter" unless that fighter plays some hockey.

A Shawn Thornton from days gone by, a Reaves of today or a Simmonds like player of a year or two ago.

These are the skates I want filled, no thank you to the goons of the world.

Chara is old and our best PK'er, Miller is often broken and lets face the fact that Backes aint that guy.

At least with McQuaid on the team we were able to rotate he and Miller between breakages.


You want to be Tampa, fine start shopping Krug and Grzelcyk while finding some serious beef on the back end.

You want to be Buffalo or Toronto lets start the loose for Hughes banners!
 
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LSCII

Cup driven
Mar 1, 2002
50,474
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Simmonds is actually fairly small (well, skinny) - He’s tough as nails though, very good fighter, doesn’t lose many.

And he's got a cap hit of $4mill and getting actual salary of $5mill this year. He's a UFA in the offseason, and I highly doubt he's going to be looking to take a pay cut. So he's going to be very expensive. If you move on him now, you're giving up assets for a pure rental. If you want him after the season, you need to figure out how to dump a bad contract just to clear space to get him. He's 30 already, and I don't think he's going to be looking for a short term deal, give this is really his last shot at a big dollar long term deal. So do you tie up that kind of cash on a guy like that, knowing it's going to be a guy that is going to decline?
 

Salem13

Registered User
Feb 6, 2008
5,624
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Salem,Mass
Exactly. I grew up watching 60's, 70's hockey. And I loved it.

But there are two arguments being made here.

Yours and others that just want an enforcer (or two) thinking it will solve all the problems.

And I am on your side.

I don't think so, I think there is one argument being made on several levels.

Nobody here is thinking about calling up John Scott and asking if he's been skating or what his current body fat percentage is.

Most however see our current situation as less than ideal and in need of addressing.
 
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GloryDaze4877

Barely Irrelevant
Jun 27, 2006
44,395
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I said they have addressed it by other means.

BTW I am not pro "fighter" unless that fighter plays some hockey.

A Shawn Thornton from days gone by, a Reaves of today or a Simmonds like player of a year or two ago.

These are the skates I want filled, no thank you to the goons of the world.

Chara is old and our best PK'er, Miller is often broken and lets face the fact that Backes aint that guy.

At least with McQuaid on the team we were able to rotate he and Miller between breakages.


You want to be Tampa, fine start shopping Krug and Grzelcyk while finding some serious beef on the back end.

You want to be Buffalo or Toronto lets start the loose for Hughes banners!

When healthy BOS’s D:

Chara: 6’9, 250
McAvoy: 6’, 210
Carlo: 6’5”, 212
Moore: 6’2”, 210
Krug: 5’9”, 186
Miller: 6’2”, 210

Grizz: 5’9”, 174
UV: 6’1”, 185
Lauzon: 6’1”, 205

I have seen Lauzon and I think he’s closer to 6’3” than 6’1”.

Anyway, Stralman is the smallest Tampa D at 5’11”, 190, and he’s not that much bigger than Krug. Other than that, it’s pretty even.
 
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