Value of: Graves and Jost

Discussion in 'Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk' started by Jeff Whelbourn, Oct 14, 2020.

  1. simon IC HFBoards Sponsor Sponsor

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    We just signed Torey Krug, who is a better version of Vince Dunn, to a 7 yr contract. Dunn could turn into a player as good, or possibly better, than Krug, but I think Graves projects as a more two-way defenseman, which is a better fit for our team needs.
     
  2. Ararana Registered User

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    Unfortunately Ryan Graves is probably staying in Colorado for a while.
     
  3. BlueOil "well-informed"

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    i can't see sakic trading away any of the defense. he's making moves to fix it, not ship out the only non-offensive d left
     
  4. BlueOil "well-informed"

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    seems like he could very easily be a seattle kraken candidate
     
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  5. Ararana Registered User

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    One can dream. Graves is a fine third pairing Dman, even if his new contract is a little rich for it, but he's getting exposed big time being Makar's ball and chain. Playing with Makar means he's on the ice with the Landeskog-MacKinnon-Rantanen line a ton and offense dies every time he touches the puck.

    Once Byram gets his legs under him in the NHL, Graves' contract will be a nuisance to the Avs. Their left side going forward is already set with Byram-Girard-Toews.
     
  6. Patagonia Keep Whining

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    Deal is actually fair and agree. Both are LHD and Graves recently extended. Unfortunately, Sakic is very respectful to the players and doubt he would trade for this reason.

    Dunn is similar to recently added Toews and should have called Sakic sooner to likely accept this deal. AVs greater need is a 3C or RHD. Dunn is young and fast skater, fitting the AVs focus.

    STL is already overloaded with LHD and need young cheap forwards. Would you be interested in Jost + pick?
     
  7. Islay1989 Registered User

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    I don't think there's a hope in hell Sakic trades Graves to the Blues, just as I think there's no hope in hell Armstrong trades Dunn to Colorado. The potential for this to blow up in their faces is too big. It was one thing when the teams were either mediocre (Blues) or downright awful (Avs) back when EJ trade went down, but now when they are SC contenders the stakes are too high.
     
  8. simon IC HFBoards Sponsor Sponsor

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    I am sure a lot of my fellow Blues fans would. Personally, I have seen my team get a lot smaller and less defensively proficient in the last few months, so Jost doesn't really move the needle for me. I appreciate the respectful discussion nonetheless. Perhaps we are just not good trading partners. Believe it or not, I wish your team well going forward.
     
  9. Richard88 Registered User

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    Dunn might be the marginally better player, but Graves is a better fit on our 3rd pairing. The reason why you want to swap Dunn for Graves is the same reason why we want to keep Graves (for at least 1 year).

    Graves' contract might be on the pricey side for the 3rd pair, but he's likely going to get picked by Seattle, which is fine because Byram will then be ready to step up and take his place (if he doesn't do it before then that is).
     
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  10. Islay1989 Registered User

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    To be fair to Jost, his defense is one aspect he is good at. His lack of burst and poor acceleration hinders him offensively but doesn't have that much of an impact defensively. He's a guy who always "almost scored". Just a fraction of a second too late, too slow etc. And ironically, because his feet can't keep up he rushes things with his hands and can fumble the puck when in prime scoring chances. He needs to call Ryan Smyth and ask him to give him some pointers.

    I think he also bulked up and added muscle mass, which is the worst thing a guy who struggles with his skating should do. He should work on his quick-twitch muscles and explosiveness rather than strength.
     
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  11. simon IC HFBoards Sponsor Sponsor

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    Thanks for the compliment, but after losing Pietrangelo and Bouwmeester, and replacing them with Faulk and Krug, I no longer see my team as a SC contender.
     
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  12. Islay1989 Registered User

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    I think it all hinges on Tank. If he can recover from his shoulder surgery they have a puncher's chance. I won't bet against a team that won it all and has ROR as #1C, that's a guy who can take over a series, and if they get timely goals and goaltending they can go a long way.
     
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  13. IWantSakicAsMyGM Registered User

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    Let's keep in mind that he turned 22 after the regular season paused. I don't disagree that he needs to work on his skating, I just think his strength was also an issue in years past, and needed to be addressed first. The bulk and muscle mass was necessary to stop being a boy among men, and could be partially due to physically maturing. Now he needs to focus more on his skating and offensive skills if he wants to be more than a depth bottom 6er.
     
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  14. Patagonia Keep Whining

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    Jost is an excellent defensive player, doesn't fit the structure of fast skating and passing. Skating is above average and strength is below average. Bulked up and hurt his skating. Worked hard on conditioning to improve his skating and got physically weaker. He can't do both and change to a possession focused team is likely best for his career.

    STL is less reliant on speed and focused on defence with possession control. Ideal team catering to his strengths.
     
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  15. Islay1989 Registered User

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    He most certainly isn't excellent. His defensive game is of a decent bottom 6 checker.
     
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  16. Islay1989 Registered User

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    The bulk was completely unnecessary. Strength and mass won't help one bit when he is constantly a step behind. And it's not like he became much better along the boards.
     
  17. Gabe MacAntanen Registered User

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    I agree. He’s in no man’s land regarding offense. I think his speed has a limited upside and he’s better off working on being stronger with the puck (and worry less about speed). But like you said, foregoing speed makes him a better fit on another team.
     
  18. Patagonia Keep Whining

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    AVs have a stacked team and regularly plays on the 3rd line which is bottom 6. Not skilled enough for the AVs, but not useless either. Few players from his draft outperformed in their career.
     
  19. IWantSakicAsMyGM Registered User

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    Maybe the bulk is unnecessary, but the strength was not. Jost will never be an elite skater, and being able to keep up with the play doesn't help much if you're constantly being muscled off the puck and can't win close puck battles. Now that he's got a little more strength and doesn't get manhandled as easily, he should hopefully be able to focus more on the little things that will help him win those battles and improve his game, instead of struggling to compete physically.
     
  20. Patagonia Keep Whining

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    Jost can’t have both. He’s likely reached his limits and playing with the fast and strong skating AVs, he’s likely better with a possession team.
     
  21. IWantSakicAsMyGM Registered User

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    Maybe he's not a great fit for our play style, but I don't understand what you mean by he can't have both. Which two things can't he have at the same time? Strength and improved hockey skills?
     
  22. Hasbro Can He Skate?! Sponsor

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    And too many cheap players.

    They want Seattle taking one of those $3 million plus contracts off the books.
     
  23. Patagonia Keep Whining

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    He tried improving his skating and was weaker against the opponents. Tried strengthening and became slower.

    Maybe his body can’t have both or this could be possible in the future. Just don’t believe he can improve beyond his current level.
     
  24. CanadianHawks Registered User

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    That's hilarious. Jost wouldn't be the seventh best forward on any NHL teams.
     
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  25. Cypher Registered User

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    I'd probably trade Jost for a 7th.
     
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