Value of: Graves and Jost

[Jeff Whelbourn]

So this offseason has been a great piece of work by Joe sakic and the team in denver, however it's hard to know what comes next.
Defense:

Girard makar
Graves johnson
Toews timmins
Byram barron
Cole

Now the avs have invested some decent assets in acquiring toews who's a left shot but I believe can play the right side, mostly on the PP unit from what I've seen. Graves has been resigned for 3 years, byram has graduated past the WHL but maybe plays in europe this year if he csnt make the team. Girard and makar are untouchable, johnson brings grit and leadership, and timmins is a long awaited nhl player.. having said that it seems like bednar likes to roll all 6 dmen somewhat equally in 5v5 situations.

With the Seattle ED next year I'm guessing the avs have to select 3 dmen in case they lose kadri or burakovsky... so they either get EJ to waive or buy him out, that leaves graves makar girard and toews, so maybe try and get something for graves while we can and package him and jost together and see what we can return?

Click to read more...

 

[Richard88]

Graves isn't getting traded, we just signed him to a 3 year contract.

Our D this year will be:

Toews --- Makar
Girard --- Johnson
Graves --- Cole

Byram and Timmins will have the opportunity in camp to make the roster, and if they do that would bump Cole down to 7D. Sakic spoke in the latest presser about how Byram and Timmins will get an opportunity, but that they'd be able to develop at their own pace, which I would take to mean that neither will be counted on for a top 6 role this season.

Gilbert or another cheap veteran we acquire closer to the season will be the designated 7D/nacho eater. Barron was just drafted and is at least 2 years away from being in the conversation to make the NHL roster.

In terms of the expansion draft, we'll protect Makar, Girard, and Toews, and leave Graves and Johnson (asked to waive his NMC) exposed. Johnson likely won't get picked over Graves so he probably won't have an issue with waiving, particularly if the alternative is to get bought out or traded.

With regards to Jost, Sakic mentioned that he's waiting for Jost to either sign his QO ($874k) or negotiate a 2 year deal, which one would assume would have a pretty cheap caphit (eg. $1m - $1.25m). Jost was mentioned by Friedman as someone Colorado could look to move, and today Friedman mentioned that a deal around Weegar and Jost (probably with an add) was discussed.

Jost probably doesn't have an enormous amount of value, but when one considers Lias Anderson brought back a late 2nd for NYR with 9 points in 66 NHL games (compared to Jost who has 72 points in 208 games along with proven defensive solidity) you'd have to think that Jost could return a 2nd as well, especially if his contract ends up being close to his QO.

 

[Avaholic29]

Graves isn't getting traded, we just signed him to a 3 year contract.

Our D this year will be:

Toews --- Makar
Girard --- Johnson
Graves --- Cole

Byram and Timmins will have the opportunity in camp to make the roster, and if they do that would bump Cole down to 7D. Sakic spoke in the latest presser about how Byram and Timmins will get an opportunity, but that they'd be able to develop at their own pace, which I would take to mean that neither will be counted on for a top 6 role this season.

Gilbert or another cheap veteran we acquire closer to the season will be the designated 7D/nacho eater. Barron was just drafted and is at least 2 years away from being in the conversation to make the NHL roster.

In terms of the expansion draft, we'll protect Makar, Girard, and Toews, and leave Graves and Johnson (asked to waive his NMC) exposed. Johnson likely won't get picked over Graves so he probably won't have an issue with waiving, particularly if the alternative is to get bought out or traded.

With regards to Jost, Sakic mentioned that he's waiting for Jost to either sign his QO ($874k) or negotiate a 2 year deal, which one would assume would have a pretty cheap caphit (eg. $1m - $1.25m). Jost was mentioned by Friedman as someone Colorado could look to move, and today Friedman mentioned that a deal around Weegar and Jost (probably with an add) was discussed.

Jost probably doesn't have an enormous amount of value, but when one considers Lias Anderson brought back a late 2nd for NYR with 9 points in 66 NHL games (compared to Jost who has 72 points in 208 games along with proven defensive solidity) you'd have to think that Jost could return a 2nd as well, especially if his contract ends up being close to his QO.

That weegar deal would look real good.. one can hope.

Toews - Makar
Girard - Johnson
Graves - Weegar

 

[Richard88]

I might add that the long-term depth chart for Colorado is set up really nicely to deal with expansion and expiring contracts.

Toews -------- Makar
Girard ------- Johnson
Graves ------- Cole

Byram ------- Timmins
Gilbert ------- Barron
Zhuravlyov -- Helleson

In 2021 Seattle will likely pick Graves (the alternative would likely be Compher/Donskoi/Francouz), and Cole will head to UFA. Byram and Timmins would then be promoted to take their places.

Johnson's contract expires in 2023, and by then at least one of Barron/Helleson will likely be ready to make the NHL to take his place. They are both similar big-bodied shutdown types who can directly fill the heavy-minutes role that Johnson will leave.

So long-term:

Byram --- Makar
Girard --- Timmins
Toews --- Barron/Helleson

One caveat to this is that we still need to see what term Toews gets on his contract, but given that Sakic paid 2 2nd's to acquire him I would expect that he'll be signed for ~4 years. If Byram's ELC is pushed back one more year it would expire in 2024 and coincide perfectly with Toews hitting UFA after a 4 year contract, at which point Toews' caphit can simply roll over to Byram.

 

[Meeqs]

Avs don't really have any incentive to move either, especially Graves as teams rarely sign guys and then move them as its bad business.

We have seen the rumor that Jost for Weegar was talked about before Toews which made sense but also give you an idea of the type of transaction it would require.

However atm the Avs don't really need anything and Jost should be cheap depth so finding a move is likely difficult as they are set on both the defense and on both wings and could use the player as depth being a win now team rather than picks.

I don't see anything productive honestly coming from this thread. Not saying that Jost couldn't be had, but as we have seen with Sakic and the deals he makes, anything that might happen in reality would be unlikely agreed upon here.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Hawks would have taken a flier on Jost in the Saad deal. I know Jost has been pretty bad but we need young forwards and a change of scenery might have done him some good.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Graves isn’t going anywhere. Doubt Jost is now either. There was supposedly a Weeger/Jost swap being discussed according to Friedman but with the Toews addition I’m guessing that’s dead.

 

[AslanRH]

Know any teams that may soon be desperate to get under the cap?

Because it looks like the Avs will be able to take on a net $2.5-3m upgrade pretty easily.

Granted, taking on extra cap as a favor may really enhance the value of the piece going the other way.

But that just bolted through my mind and may not electrify the rest of the Avs fan base. Sakic has struck twice already this season so a 3rd time may be too much to ask.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Know any teams that may soon be desperate to get under the cap?

Because it looks like the Avs will be able to take on a net $2.5-3m upgrade pretty easily.

Granted, taking on extra cap as a favor may really enhance the value of the piece going the other way.

But that just bolted through my mind and may not electrify the rest of the Avs fan base. Sakic has struck twice already this season so a 3rd time may be too much to ask.

You still have to sign Jost and Toews. That should eat up 5 M with 20 players signed. Then you still need to fill out a 22 man roster. You only have approx 6.7M cap as of today.

 

[Hasbro]

Graves: expansion draft

Jost: paired with a pick for a rental at the deadline.

 

[Patagonia]

Avs don't really have any incentive to move either, especially Graves as teams rarely sign guys and then move them as its bad business.

We have seen the rumor that Jost for Weegar was talked about before Toews which made sense but also give you an idea of the type of transaction it would require.

However atm the Avs don't really need anything and Jost should be cheap depth so finding a move is likely difficult as they are set on both the defense and on both wings and could use the player as depth being a win now team rather than picks.

I don't see anything productive honestly coming from this thread. Not saying that Jost couldn't be had, but as we have seen with Sakic and the deals he makes, anything that might happen in reality would be unlikely agreed upon here.

Weegar would be outstanding. Doubt he would be available and if the AVs can send Jost + small add, they have to make the deal. This would solidify our RD and send Timmins back to the AHL. I have little faith he will properly heal cutting short his career.

 

[Richard88]

Know any teams that may soon be desperate to get under the cap?

Because it looks like the Avs will be able to take on a net $2.5-3m upgrade pretty easily.

Granted, taking on extra cap as a favor may really enhance the value of the piece going the other way.

But that just bolted through my mind and may not electrify the rest of the Avs fan base. Sakic has struck twice already this season so a 3rd time may be too much to ask.

Avs can't afford to add much salary, unless we move someone out. The way Sakic specifically and clearly targetted a $5m forward and a $4m top 4 D suggests that he's not going to make any further moves, other than perhaps a depth signing or two at close to league minimum (13F/7D type guys).

You still have to sign Jost and Toews. That should eat up 5 M with 20 players signed. Then you still need to fill out a 22 man roster. You only have approx 6.7M cap as of today.

That's correct. We should be able to fit Toews and Jost in with the tiniest of margins. If Jost asks for too much he'll likely get traded and we will sign someone else or give that spot to Kaut/O'Connor.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Avs can't afford to add much salary, unless we move someone out. The way Sakic specifically and clearly targetted a $5m forward and a $4m top 4 D suggests that he's not going to make any further moves, other than perhaps a depth signing or two at close to league minimum (13F/7D type guys).


That's correct. We should be able to fit Toews and Jost in with the tiniest of margins. If Jost asks for too much he'll likely get traded and we will sign someone else or give that spot to Kaut/O'Connor.

View attachment 372846

147K too tight?

Habs situation is similar (waive Ouellet and Weal and call Evans and Poehling) and we have approximately 200K remaining with 22 man roster.

Bergevin seems to want 1.5K space. Unless he is including the scratches?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Know any teams that may soon be desperate to get under the cap?

Because it looks like the Avs will be able to take on a net $2.5-3m upgrade pretty easily.

Granted, taking on extra cap as a favor may really enhance the value of the piece going the other way.

But that just bolted through my mind and may not electrify the rest of the Avs fan base. Sakic has struck twice already this season so a 3rd time may be too much to ask.

What??? How on Earth are the Avs supposed to do this.

We need to move cap ideally not add it.

 

[Avelanche]

Hawks would have taken a flier on Jost in the Saad deal. I know Jost has been pretty bad but we need young forwards and a change of scenery might have done him some good.

Jost would be like the 7th best forward on Chicago. He wouldn’t be something to get thrown into a deal despite what people on here say.

 

[Richard88]

147K too tight?

Habs situation is similar (waive Ouellet and Weal and call Evans and Poehling) and we have approximately 200K remaining with 22 man roster.

Bergevin seems to want 1.5K space. Unless he is including the scratches?

Avs don't need to waive anyone to make the cap situation work. Just resign Toews and Jost at a combined $5m and we're fine.

If needed we could also sign a couple of $700k guys as 13F and 7D to shave off $250-400k extra from the opening night roster. Nieto just took a $700k x 1 year deal and I'm sure there might be more guys like that taking cheap deals to stay in the league.

As an example, a $700k 7D instead of Gilbert at $925k would save $225k, and a $700k 13F would save $163k compared to Kaut's $863k, for a combined saving of $388k. So there's some flexibility there if we need to squeeze some more juice out of our capspace for Toews/Jost.

 

[Patagonia]

Avs don't need to waive anyone to make the cap situation work. Just resign Toews and Jost at a combined $5m and we're fine.

If needed we could also sign a couple of $700k guys as 13F and 7D to shave off $250-400k extra from the opening night roster. Nieto just took a $700k x 1 year deal and I'm sure there might be more guys like that taking cheap deals to stay in the league.

As an example, a $700k 7D instead of Gilbert at $925k would save $225k, and a $700k 13F would save $163k compared to Kaut's $863k, for a combined saving of $388k. So there's some flexibility there if we need to squeeze some more juice out of our capspace for Toews/Jost.

Sakic’s Presser mentioned Jost was offered a QO for 2 years. No specifics on the amount, but likely $1M-$1.5M per. Keeping the salary low not only helps the team, it also improves marketability in a trade.

 

[John Mandalorian]

I’m not so sure Sakic even asks Johnson to waive.

I’m also not so sure the Avs don’t do the 8-1. I think whether they go 7-3-1 vs 8-1, will be determined by what happens this upcoming year.

 

[Linds]

I’m not so sure Sakic even asks Johnson to waive.

I’m also not so sure the Avs don’t do the 8-1. I think whether they go 7-3-1 vs 8-1, will be determined by what happens this upcoming year.

Absolutely he asks EJ to waive or he gets bought out, no way in he'll Sakic would expose towes after just acquiring him and giving up decent assets. That would be terrible management. Also the 8-1 route doesn't make much sense for the avs, they'd be exposing too many core players

 

[Richard88]

Absolutely he asks EJ to waive or he gets bought out, no way in he'll Sakic would expose towes after just acquiring him and giving up decent assets. That would be terrible management. Also the 8-1 route doesn't make much sense for the avs, they'd be exposing too many core players

8-1 could make sense if Sakic does a handshake deal wth Landeskog to leave him unprotected and then resigns him as an UFA.

• Mackinnon, Rantanen, Kadri, Burakovsky
• Makar, Girard, Toews, Graves/Johnson
• Grubauer

Alternatively if Burakovsky has a down year we could expose him and sign someone like Saad or Palmieri in UFA with Burakovsky's $4.9m AAV.

 

[simon IC]

Graves for Vince Dunn

 

[Richard88]

Graves for Vince Dunn

What do you expect Dunn's contract to look like?

 

[simon IC]

What do you expect Dunn's contract to look like?

He does not have arbitration rights, so he doesn't have a lot of leverage. I am thinking 2.5? I am not sure.

 

[Richard88]

He does not have arbitration rights, so he doesn't have a lot of leverage. I am thinking 2.5? I am not sure.

That seems at least $1m short for him. It's also probably not realistic given that we just signed Graves to a 3 year deal. It wouldn't show much goodwill from Sakic to trade a guy after just signing him.

 

[Patagonia]

Graves for Vince Dunn

I thought STL is really high on his potential? Graves is unknown long-term.