Grand Larsson-y: NHL 2011 Draft Top 30 – Holiday Edition (via THW)

[Hunter Gathers]

I think it's more lack of viewership than deliberate bias. There are always kids in the USNTDP and High School ranks that are first round talents but seem to fly under the radar.

Not saying it's a bias. I mean overvaluing because they see them play more. And undervaluing because they see them play less. The US tends to get overlooked when it comes to these lists (especially early in the year). Just mostly because of a lack of viewing. Canadian sites will always go with who they are more familiar with, it seems. Not a big deal, more me wishing there were more sites that scouted Americans better.

 

[AmericanDream]

Not saying it's a bias. I mean overvaluing because they see them play more. And undervaluing because they see them play less. The US tends to get overlooked when it comes to these lists (especially early in the year). Just mostly because of a lack of viewing. Canadian sites will always go with who they are more familiar with, it seems. Not a big deal, more me wishing there were more sites that scouted Americans better.

there was nothing wrong with your original statement, as it is the truth. Most scouting services do not get to see much of US junior hockey until probably December and beyond. They certainly dont sniff much of the US Highschools until almost end of year as well. Most of these sites/services always have way too many Euro players ranked high that eventually drop off. Those that drop off get replaced by US kids from the USHL, NCAA, or USNDP.

This year is no different, as this list has a lot of US omissions. Last year was a record breaking year for USA players at the draft, and though the 2012 draft will give the 2010 draft a run for its money US wise, this draft is nothing to laugh at either. I have between 8-9 Americans going in the first round, and I think it will be pretty darn close to that come June.

This site has left off many kids that are first round picks/bubble players currently: Russo, Nieto, Jacobs, McColgan, Noesen, Miller, Trocheck, Prince, Mayfield, Shore, Lucia, Murphy, etc... There will be much more then 4 Americans taken in the first round of the draft this year...it wont be double digits, but it will be second to only Canada by a wide margin.

 

[UpsideHockey]

What are your thoughts on Shane Prince? And Travis Graovac?

Shane Prince should definitely challenge to go in the 1st rnd. I strongly considered having him as a late 1st rnd selection. Watching him closely.

I think you mean TYLER Graovac. I know he's a smart young kid, but haven't seen enough of him at this point to give a meaningful scouting report. Any one else have some info on this kid?

Appreciate all the feedback all...I'll try and respond to more of the comments as well soon enough.

For some reason, it's a busy time of the year!

Cheers,
-Chris

 

[Hamilton35]

Shane Prince should definitely challenge to go in the 1st rnd. I strongly considered having him as a late 1st rnd selection. Watching him closely.

I think you mean TYLER Graovac. I know he's a smart young kid, but haven't seen enough of him at this point to give a meaningful scouting report. Any one else have some info on this kid?

Appreciate all the feedback all...I'll try and respond to more of the comments as well soon enough.

For some reason, it's a busy time of the year!

Cheers,
-Chris

I try to watch as much OHL as possible, but living in Ottawa Ive seen most 67s games.

From what I have seen with Prince, hes benefited from playing with Martindale and Toffoli, but I think they all need each other. They seem to have all elevated their games once they were combined. Back in camp, you could tell Prince was the most improved. Came in with an additional 10lbs of muscle, and dominated. This leads to Graovac.

Back in camp, Prince was the best followed by Martindale. the 3rd best foward had to be Graovac. New found speed and it went nicely with his skill. Imo, Graovac is the biggest **** tease in the league. Excuse my language. 6 4 185 lbs. Unreal hands. But hasnt learned to finish. He hasnt scored a ton, but a couple of his goals are just ridiculous. He constantly dangles D, but cant finish. He hasnt exactly played with goal scorers, but hes a serious sleeper. 5-7 round pick and could be worth a 2nd or 3rd long term.

He has to work on his d zone coverage and draws. There are points when his line spends an entire shift in their own zone because they cant get the puck. Hes not ready to defend some of the better C`s in the league.

 

[biturbo19]

i know Gillis is all about BPA and doesn't really 'draft for size', etc., and i don't really know a whole ton about Adam Clendening, but i don't really see the Canucks selecting a "slightly undersized 2-way QB blueliner". there look to be a handful of d-prospects already in the pipeline, while there isn't a whole lot up front beyond the top few. it seems more likely to me that they'd target a forward, and likely one with a bit of size at that. But it's hard to say with a whole lot of certainty, and obviously a ton can change between now and then.

 

[Daryl]

A great opportunity for scouts and fans of the NHL who take interest in the draft to see the upcoming draft picks in the WJC. I watched the game where Sweden faced Canada. It was two arguable top draft picks of the future draft against one another. Larsson was looking quite well,other then the few turnovers..

 

[Selke]

I love Saad to Ottawa and Rattie to Colorado. Those would be incredible fits.

I have never seen Khokhlachev play so no comment on that. What type of style does he play? Typical Russian smooth skating with nice puck skills? All of that said, I'd still like to think Chicago wouldn't pass on a talent like Rattie.

 

[Qvist]

I would be shocked if the Devils went offense in this draft.

Why wouldn't they? They did in 2008 and 2009, and their blueline prospects weren't any better then that they are now.

And that was when they were drafting in the teens or later, where you actually legitimately have quite a lot of nearly equivalent options. No one thinks that way with a 2nd overall pick.

More generally, to all this talk of teams trading up and down in the top 5 because of some perceived need.

Since the lockout, no-one has traded up or down from a top 3 position. There is one single case of trading down from the top 5 (the Islanders in 2008).

Rumour has it the Jackets drafted for position when they took Ryan Johansen 4th this year, but other than that, I can't say I know of a single case where it seems reasonably well sourced that any team has drafted according to specific team need or positional preference in the top 5. The Hurricanes even broke with their general principle of not drafting defensemen in the first round because Jack Johnson was so obviously BPA when they picked 3rd overall in 2005.

The overwhelming likelihood is that nobody trades anything in the top 5, and that each team takes whichever player they deem to be the best overall prospect, completely irrespective of any team need.

 

[Qvist]

i know Gillis is all about BPA and doesn't really 'draft for size', etc., and i don't really know a whole ton about Adam Clendening, but i don't really see the Canucks selecting a "slightly undersized 2-way QB blueliner". there look to be a handful of d-prospects already in the pipeline, while there isn't a whole lot up front beyond the top few. it seems more likely to me that they'd target a forward, and likely one with a bit of size at that. But it's hard to say with a whole lot of certainty, and obviously a ton can change between now and then.

Well, if the Canucks think position, a defenseman seems the obvious need to me. They haven't drafted one in the first round since...actually, I can't even remember. (Other than Luc Bourdon, of course). They don't currently have anyone in their system who can reasonably be expected to make a difference in the NHL.

 

[Qvist]

5th Overall + Pitlick/Smid

If we take SC, Pitlick probably doesn't get the 2C Role (Gagner does), and if we take Larsson then Smid gets ousted from the top 4 (Whitney, Larsson, Petry, Plante/Gilbert/Peckham).

Would that get it done?

In 3 years we look like:

Hall - Couturier - Eberle
Paajarvi - Gagner - Hemsky/Paajarvi
Hartikannen/Hamilton - Lander - ?
Hartikannen/Hamilton - Horcoff - Abney

OR

Larsson - Whitney
Petry - Peckham
Plante - Gilbert

I'm sure that was fun, but you have no idea what the Oilers will look like in 3 years.

And if you think 5th + Pitlick/Smid brings the 1st overall, you can think again.

 

[headsigh]

I like St. Croix. Cool to hear he's finally putting on the goals, but I doubt Rick Dudley goes for him if Ambroz or Catenacci is still available, because they fit into his blueprint for forwards a bit more.

 

[UpsideHockey]

So many "bang on" comment on this thread...this forum never ceases to amaze me!

QVIST - well in on all the points you raise.

Hamilton35: appreciate the insight on Graovac!

headsigh - I could really see St. Croix fitting in as well, as would the players you mention. Lots will go down before we see the end result, of course.

Is anyone as naturally buzzed as I am for the upcoming WJCs!??! Hockey at its finest!

 

[Le Golie]

+1

Like I said in a different thread, I think the Islander will take the "sexy" pick and that will probably be Sean Couturier. We have a solid shot at getting one of the two this summer unless we get ****ed at the lottery by dropping down one spot from 2nd to 3rd.

If that's the case, I wouldn't mind trading down to select Ryan Murphy or one of Landeskog/RNH.

Doesn't look like the Devils will finish better than 30th so no worries about losing a lottery and picking third. Awful, awful NHL team.

 

[JeffYear92*]

Great Write Up..

I see Boston taking Landenskog over murphy tho.

I am a huge Murphy fan but I will not be shocked if he drops out of the top 10.

The skill is amazing but the size issue will kill him for this draft.

He had a great first half of the season, lets see how does in the 2nd half. With a strong second half, he might push to become a top 5 player.

 

[hawksfan50]

WE should rank prospects NOT how they are currently "starring" for their Jr. teams or against JR> peers when they play them at this age--BUT RATHER on projections for success as NHL pros..


IT is also very difficult to rank forwards.d-men and goalies and from all the different countries into 1 composite ranking for all ..

HERE is my own idiosyncratic rankings at mid-term before the TOPPRSOPECTS GAME gives a further comparison or before the WJHC is over (has not even startedas I post this)...IN some caes I'm downgrading because of what I have seen when they played,in other cases I have not seen certain draft eligibles play yet but I'm going on projection hunches and what I have ead on their progress..


SO for what it is worth I have a TOP 16 picked out --after that others to make up a top 30 are all over the place from17-30 so I have not firmed up a ranking ye for those in that tier.


SO here are my top 16:


1. Gabriel Landeskog
2. Dougie Hamilton
3.Duncan Siemens
4. Sean Couturier
5. CHRIS GIBSON
6. Jonathan Huberdeau
7. Mark McNeill
8. Colin Jacobs
9.Ryan Murphy
10. Joe Morrow
11.Peter Ceresnak
12. SAMU PERHONEN
13. Adam Larsson
14. Ryan Strome
15. Brandon Saad
16. Ryan Nigent-Hopkins


ANd I've only put RNH as 16 because he is so conenused highe by all the scouting orgs.. I am skeptical however on 2 factors--his size and his lack of goal scoring for a smaller centre who looks primarily to be an assists guy...There have been plenty of this type that have not "made it" at the NHL level ...RNH is not even a Marc Savard in putting up points--I'm just skeptical--sorry..


I also have a hunch that sme of the later developing bigger guys are just emeging in their "rise" now--they could be really good in Jr. next year and when they later hit pro...My hunches for underranked on this projection curve are for the 2 big centres MCnEill and Jacobs --you lso have to look at the context of the support cast around them...For instance Jacobs in Seattle is on a VERY YOUNG Team in their forwards group..they willget better and better as they age through next year and beyond..
RNH has a better support cast in Red Deer.

My insertion of the 2 goalies into this top 16 is i think justified in that this overall is not an exceptional draft compared to other draft top 15-16...(neither is it that deep
in the skaters) and so better value might be found in the goalies and in this case they probably are as good a "bet" as any in the first half of the first round...

My dropping of Adam Larsson out f the top ten even is based on the reports of his falling grades this season AND the fact I was underwhelmed by his performance against Canada in that WJHC pre-season game...Compared to how th Swedish D-men in the Rundblad-Erixon draft class looked when I saw them playin their WJHC of their draft year--they impressed far more that I saw out of Larsson...now maybe Larsson shows better in the actual tournament whengames are for real--if so I move him back up the ranking-if not-I may shove him out of the top 16 alltogether!

I have not seen DUNCAN SIEMENS play yet--but some orgs have him ranked ahead of DOUGIE HAMILTON .I've seen Hamilton play lots oftimes-- I think he is the best NHL=projected D-man for this draft and so I'm giving Siemens the benefit of the doubt as being very close to if not better than Hamilton... AND so I have them ahead f Couturier who while a good NHL prospect is still not that "special" that he would go that high in other draft years IN MY OPINION...

For a comparison of HAMILTON though-I can say I like his NHL projection BETTER than ERIK GUDBRANSON who went #3 overall in 2010 ...

THerefore in this unexceptional draft for forwards-NO CROSBY,MALKIN,OVECHKIN,STAMKOS of the very superstar level ,NOR even TOEWS or KANE or BACKSTOM talents of a secondary "STAR" B-1 level --we are left with a bunch of at best B-2 level forwads...therefore to be honest--I've got to rank what I know is a potential #1-2 or 3 D-man on an NHL team in Hamilton higher than all the unexceptional forwards in the draft---LANDESKOG is #1 overall ONLY because he brings the added dimension of sizeand toughness and leadership in addition to his scoring but whether even he gets to be on a #1 line at the NHL level is debatable..
SO I have to rank HAMILTON next because he could be a #1 D-man anchoring some team for 15+ years when he makes the NHL --but certinly is a very SAFE pick to at least make it no lower than a a 2nd pair D-man ...Given the top projection and the little risk on the downside-- You just have to rank Hamilton as a better bet than a lot of the guys like RNH who could flop at the NHl level ..So stop looking at he JR. starring roles and project to the pros ..he draft is stilll a rap-shoot of course but sometimes quality sticks out and shoots "can't miss" and I think that is the case with Hamilton-a very safe pick but with top D-man upside --sure no "wow" factor but very efficient,very reliable and still improving,much less error-prone than were Gudbranson,Pietrangelo etc.. HAMILTON has only 2 flaws at this time--one -he is not big goal scorer with his shot --and two ,he is not "nasty" in his physical play-but rather very efficient with it -proper open ice hits,proper shoving guys off pucks easily (strengthand balabce),and he skates beautifully forwards and backwards ,has good vision and instincts,anticipation--offensively and defensively for getting to the right spots first...he has the head to process the game..In the size,speed,ability package- he's got most of everyting you want ..and he has not lveeled of but still getting better. I just do not see why he should be anywhere below #2 overall in this draft.

I put Landeskog at #1 because aside from the package of size,grit and scoring-- what sealed it for me was that he rushes to defemd his team-mates when others take liberties on them .THAT is "leadership" and why he was made Kitchener captain..and so besides talent and grit-he also as that intangible leader quality..

Like a Toews this can be very valuable for teams-but I do not know if at the NHL level he willget to play on a top line or only the 2nd line for a team..LikeToews he will probably never be a league top 20 scorer or even the top scorer on his team but willbe one of the team's best scorers and an important "cog" and leader. Soyou cannot ignore that especially in this less than superstar quality elite forward crop this draft..

Ryan Murphy has the same problem all smaller but offensively gifted D-men do-how will a small d do at the NHL level..some stick,others never duplicate the gaudy numbers of the Jr. years or flop completely in the man's game at that level.So you have the risk to consider when you are a smaller D-man.
He is specially gifted and a better skater than Ryan Ellis-but both still need to show they can be positively impactful at the NHL level and not defensive liability in lost puck battles at that level--so it is always a gamble with smaller D-men--is it Rafalski or merely an Ian White or a Zidlicky--there are going to be some size/strength issues at the next level-so despite the 'talent' you can't overank them due to the risk when you get smaller gifted D-men.

MCNEILL and JACOBS--are these indeed going to be "risers" in the 2nd half per my hunch? We shall see.. but probaly ,yes. Will they get to the top ten? Maybe.We'll see ...Others may have gaudier stats NOW and even THEN -but if they continue their developing improvement over the 2nd half,a lot od NHL teams will look at the size and improved impact combo and PROJECT even bigger things down the road for them next year and further as pross one day. SO watch to see if theykeep upward improvement in the 2nd half.

 

[Debrincat93]

If carolina doesnt draft a dman in the first round this year I will start to question their entire direction. Their defense is just so terrible and you just cant keep hoping Ward will stop a 40 shots a game.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

If carolina doesnt draft a dman in the first round this year I will start to question their entire direction. Their defense is just so terrible and you just cant keep hoping Ward will stop a 40 shots a game.

Agreed. They do have some good young defenseman in the system, but they have to wait till they develop.

 

[8BostonRocker24]

Like someone else has already said in this thread, I see Ryan Murphy dropping like a rock, more so then Fowler last year. Most everyone on this site was shocked when that happened, and Fowler is showing a lot of GMs they were wrong in passing on him.

There are multiply beat writers (that also post on the Bruins Board) that love Ryan Murphy. I just don't see it, and IMO he's too big of risk. I see Boston taking Ryan Nugent-Hopkins or Gabriel Landeskog if they are in the 3rd or 4th hole. (Sean Couturier & Adam Larsson going 1/2 in some order).

If Boston ends up 5th they might take Murphy, but I would rather see them take Brandon Saad or Ryan Strome. I just think anyone drafted that high needs to be at least 6-0 by the age of 17 unless they are an elite talent and I just don't see that out of Murphy. Short defensemen scary me too much to take in the top-5.

 

[8BostonRocker24]

If carolina doesnt draft a dman in the first round this year I will start to question their entire direction. Their defense is just so terrible and you just cant keep hoping Ward will stop a 40 shots a game.

Reading Carolina fans last year on this board was interesting. They blew up when the team passed on Fowler and took Skinner.

Not saying one move was better then the other, but there were some seriously pissed off Carolina fans.

 

[Debrincat93]

Reading Carolina fans last year on this board was interesting. They blew up when the team passed on Fowler and took Skinner.

Not saying one move was better then the other, but there were some seriously pissed off Carolina fans.

Looking at the impact both have had on their team, they couldnt go wrong either way. However, opting out of a defenseman this year would be just pure idiocy by their staff.

McBain is a stud but unless he's a phenom he's going to have trouble producing with the lack of a fellow defensive unit to work with him.

If someone drops and your taking BPA that's fine but at some point they need to just go balls out defensive approach one strong draft year and just retool it completely. my $.02

 

[arsmaster*]

i know Gillis is all about BPA and doesn't really 'draft for size', etc., and i don't really know a whole ton about Adam Clendening, but i don't really see the Canucks selecting a "slightly undersized 2-way QB blueliner". there look to be a handful of d-prospects already in the pipeline, while there isn't a whole lot up front beyond the top few. it seems more likely to me that they'd target a forward, and likely one with a bit of size at that. But it's hard to say with a whole lot of certainty, and obviously a ton can change between now and then.

I agree...if they go D, I think they will go for Beaulieu....keep in mind the Canucks scouts have seen a ton of the Sea Dogs the last few years with fellow prospects Steven Anthony and Yann Sauve.

Other players I could see Vancouver taking here are: Catenacci, Jurco (if available) and Jenner..

Well, if the Canucks think position, a defenseman seems the obvious need to me. They haven't drafted one in the first round since...actually, I can't even remember. (Other than Luc Bourdon, of course). They don't currently have anyone in their system who can reasonably be expected to make a difference in the NHL.

What does it matter where a player is selected. Gillis is on the record as saying he thinks the Canucks have numerous defensemen in the system knocking at the door.

Connauton was a 3rd round pick in 2009, and after his one season of offensive dominance in the WHL, has moved on to the AHL and has done nothing but impress, and improve on his defensive game.

Yann Sauve - 2nd rounder in 2008, 6'3" 215ish and can skate well for that size, get healthy, and play safe....he has a lot of PRO tools in his game already.

Chris Tanev- college free agent, who grew from 5'7 ish to 6'2" all after 18, he has a lot of two way ability as well.

Patrick McNally - 4th rounder in 2010, ranked 40th in CSB final rankings (his age and plans to play at Harvard probably scared more teams off).

Im not saying the Canucks are the LA kings, St Louis Blues, or Nashville Predators, but they dont NEED to draft a defensman in the 1st round. Would I like them to? YES, if there arent forwards available who they think are better.

I like your list THW....keep it up.

 

[SumOil]

Oilers will end up with the 3rd overall pick and they will take Gabriel Landeskog....If Larsson is off the table of course.

 

[Torts]

WE should rank prospects NOT how they are currently "starring" for their Jr. teams or against JR> peers when they play them at this age--BUT RATHER on projections for success as NHL pros..


IT is also very difficult to rank forwards.d-men and goalies and from all the different countries into 1 composite ranking for all ..

HERE is my own idiosyncratic rankings at mid-term before the TOPPRSOPECTS GAME gives a further comparison or before the WJHC is over (has not even startedas I post this)...IN some caes I'm downgrading because of what I have seen when they played,in other cases I have not seen certain draft eligibles play yet but I'm going on projection hunches and what I have ead on their progress..


SO for what it is worth I have a TOP 16 picked out --after that others to make up a top 30 are all over the place from17-30 so I have not firmed up a ranking ye for those in that tier.


SO here are my top 16:


1. Gabriel Landeskog
2. Dougie Hamilton
3.Duncan Siemens
4. Sean Couturier
5. CHRIS GIBSON
6. Jonathan Huberdeau
7. Mark McNeill
8. Colin Jacobs
9.Ryan Murphy
10. Joe Morrow
11.Peter Ceresnak
12. SAMU PERHONEN
13. Adam Larsson
14. Ryan Strome
15. Brandon Saad
16. Ryan Nigent-Hopkins


ANd I've only put RNH as 16 because he is so conenused highe by all the scouting orgs.. I am skeptical however on 2 factors--his size and his lack of goal scoring for a smaller centre who looks primarily to be an assists guy...There have been plenty of this type that have not "made it" at the NHL level ...RNH is not even a Marc Savard in putting up points--I'm just skeptical--sorry..


I also have a hunch that sme of the later developing bigger guys are just emeging in their "rise" now--they could be really good in Jr. next year and when they later hit pro...My hunches for underranked on this projection curve are for the 2 big centres MCnEill and Jacobs --you lso have to look at the context of the support cast around them...For instance Jacobs in Seattle is on a VERY YOUNG Team in their forwards group..they willget better and better as they age through next year and beyond..
RNH has a better support cast in Red Deer.

My insertion of the 2 goalies into this top 16 is i think justified in that this overall is not an exceptional draft compared to other draft top 15-16...(neither is it that deep
in the skaters) and so better value might be found in the goalies and in this case they probably are as good a "bet" as any in the first half of the first round...

My dropping of Adam Larsson out f the top ten even is based on the reports of his falling grades this season AND the fact I was underwhelmed by his performance against Canada in that WJHC pre-season game...Compared to how th Swedish D-men in the Rundblad-Erixon draft class looked when I saw them playin their WJHC of their draft year--they impressed far more that I saw out of Larsson...now maybe Larsson shows better in the actual tournament whengames are for real--if so I move him back up the ranking-if not-I may shove him out of the top 16 alltogether!

I have not seen DUNCAN SIEMENS play yet--but some orgs have him ranked ahead of DOUGIE HAMILTON .I've seen Hamilton play lots oftimes-- I think he is the best NHL=projected D-man for this draft and so I'm giving Siemens the benefit of the doubt as being very close to if not better than Hamilton... AND so I have them ahead f Couturier who while a good NHL prospect is still not that "special" that he would go that high in other draft years IN MY OPINION...

For a comparison of HAMILTON though-I can say I like his NHL projection BETTER than ERIK GUDBRANSON who went #3 overall in 2010 ...

THerefore in this unexceptional draft for forwards-NO CROSBY,MALKIN,OVECHKIN,STAMKOS of the very superstar level ,NOR even TOEWS or KANE or BACKSTOM talents of a secondary "STAR" B-1 level --we are left with a bunch of at best B-2 level forwads...therefore to be honest--I've got to rank what I know is a potential #1-2 or 3 D-man on an NHL team in Hamilton higher than all the unexceptional forwards in the draft---LANDESKOG is #1 overall ONLY because he brings the added dimension of sizeand toughness and leadership in addition to his scoring but whether even he gets to be on a #1 line at the NHL level is debatable..
SO I have to rank HAMILTON next because he could be a #1 D-man anchoring some team for 15+ years when he makes the NHL --but certinly is a very SAFE pick to at least make it no lower than a a 2nd pair D-man ...Given the top projection and the little risk on the downside-- You just have to rank Hamilton as a better bet than a lot of the guys like RNH who could flop at the NHl level ..So stop looking at he JR. starring roles and project to the pros ..he draft is stilll a rap-shoot of course but sometimes quality sticks out and shoots "can't miss" and I think that is the case with Hamilton-a very safe pick but with top D-man upside --sure no "wow" factor but very efficient,very reliable and still improving,much less error-prone than were Gudbranson,Pietrangelo etc.. HAMILTON has only 2 flaws at this time--one -he is not big goal scorer with his shot --and two ,he is not "nasty" in his physical play-but rather very efficient with it -proper open ice hits,proper shoving guys off pucks easily (strengthand balabce),and he skates beautifully forwards and backwards ,has good vision and instincts,anticipation--offensively and defensively for getting to the right spots first...he has the head to process the game..In the size,speed,ability package- he's got most of everyting you want ..and he has not lveeled of but still getting better. I just do not see why he should be anywhere below #2 overall in this draft.

I put Landeskog at #1 because aside from the package of size,grit and scoring-- what sealed it for me was that he rushes to defemd his team-mates when others take liberties on them .THAT is "leadership" and why he was made Kitchener captain..and so besides talent and grit-he also as that intangible leader quality..

Like a Toews this can be very valuable for teams-but I do not know if at the NHL level he willget to play on a top line or only the 2nd line for a team..LikeToews he will probably never be a league top 20 scorer or even the top scorer on his team but willbe one of the team's best scorers and an important "cog" and leader. Soyou cannot ignore that especially in this less than superstar quality elite forward crop this draft..

Ryan Murphy has the same problem all smaller but offensively gifted D-men do-how will a small d do at the NHL level..some stick,others never duplicate the gaudy numbers of the Jr. years or flop completely in the man's game at that level.So you have the risk to consider when you are a smaller D-man.
He is specially gifted and a better skater than Ryan Ellis-but both still need to show they can be positively impactful at the NHL level and not defensive liability in lost puck battles at that level--so it is always a gamble with smaller D-men--is it Rafalski or merely an Ian White or a Zidlicky--there are going to be some size/strength issues at the next level-so despite the 'talent' you can't overank them due to the risk when you get smaller gifted D-men.

MCNEILL and JACOBS--are these indeed going to be "risers" in the 2nd half per my hunch? We shall see.. but probaly ,yes. Will they get to the top ten? Maybe.We'll see ...Others may have gaudier stats NOW and even THEN -but if they continue their developing improvement over the 2nd half,a lot od NHL teams will look at the size and improved impact combo and PROJECT even bigger things down the road for them next year and further as pross one day. SO watch to see if theykeep upward improvement in the 2nd half.

this whole thread is full of fail

1. Players get drafted on skill and projection rather then stats, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins will go top 5 because of his ability to create plays and find players. the fact he has a small tally of goals scares no1.

2. You say theres no draft depth and thats why goalies will go high, thats completely wrong again. theres a ton of depth. theres no marquee player other then Larsson and SC but the players you have listed around 15 and 14ish are great players. which shows great draft depth.

3. Hamilton will go high but Murphy before him. Teams might skip over Murphy like what happened to Fowler but he has way to much offensive upside to slide. Hamilton will be top 10, not #2

4. Jonathan Huberdeau, Mark McNeill, Colin Jacobs will not go as high as u listed. All will be late first round picks.

5. Defensemen should not stand out to fans. that means they are doing their job. Larsson did not stand out to me during the sweden, which means he played well, didnt turnover puck

I dont know what system your going on

but im confuzzled

 

[Ward Cornell]

this whole thread is full of fail

1. Players get drafted on skill and projection rather then stats, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins will go top 5 because of his ability to create plays and find players. the fact he has a small tally of goals scares no1.

2. You say theres no draft depth and thats why goalies will go high, thats completely wrong again. theres a ton of depth. theres no marquee player other then Larsson and SC but the players you have listed around 15 and 14ish are great players. which shows great draft depth.

3. Hamilton will go high but Murphy before him. Teams might skip over Murphy like what happened to Fowler but he has way to much offensive upside to slide. Hamilton will be top 10, not #2

4. Jonathan Huberdeau, Mark McNeill, Colin Jacobs will not go as high as u listed. All will be late first round picks.

5. Defensemen should not stand out to fans. that means they are doing their job. Larsson did not stand out to me during the sweden, which means he played well, didnt turnover puck

I dont know what system your going on

but im confuzzled

I agree...Murphy will be the 2nd D-man (at the lowest maybe even 1st) picked.

 

[8BostonRocker24]

Looking at the impact both have had on their team, they couldnt go wrong either way. However, opting out of a defenseman this year would be just pure idiocy by their staff.

McBain is a stud but unless he's a phenom he's going to have trouble producing with the lack of a fellow defensive unit to work with him.

If someone drops and your taking BPA that's fine but at some point they need to just go balls out defensive approach one strong draft year and just retool it completely. my $.02

Here's the thing...
As a Boston fan, it has flat out ticked me off the past few years them passing on some defensive prospects in favor of more forward prospects. I have had the chance to talk to people within the organization about this move, they believe drafting and developing forwards is easier, safer and quicker then developing defensemen. As a result they have looked within the organization for forwards and Free Agents / trades for defensemen.

Chara: UFA signing
Seidenberg: Trade
Ference: Trade
Boychuk: Trade
McQuaid: Trade
Stuart: Drafted
Kampfer: Trade

Carolina might be using this same principal.