Grade your GM

Discussion in 'Dallas Stars' started by gentleman scholar, Feb 24, 2020.

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What grade would you give Nill?

Poll closed Mar 2, 2020.
  1. A+

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. A

    5.1%
  3. A-

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. B+

    10.3%
  5. B

    41.0%
  6. B-

    15.4%
  7. C+

    12.8%
  8. C

    5.1%
  9. C-

    5.1%
  10. D+

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. D

    2.6%
  12. D-

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  13. F

    2.6%
  1. sportswastaken Jim Lites Apologist

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    What grade would you give GMJN 2.0?
    April 2013 - Present
    It would be interesting to see people make their case too- if you think something is overlooked or overstated, say it! Hot takes welcome.
     
  2. serp Registered User

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    Mostly meh. Some good moves , some bad moves but never any moves that completely crippled the team.
     
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  3. ZeHockeyFan Registered User

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    C+...maybe a B-, but 7 years to get to where this team looks like it may look a perennial playoff team is not very flattering.
     
  4. sportswastaken Jim Lites Apologist

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    I'd be very interested to see a cap and roster breakdown like capfriendly of where the team was when he acquired it. I don't remember him inheriting any bad contracts- but the cupboard was pretty bare as well.
     
  5. BigG44 Registered User

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    Just from memory ... I think you have it correct. He inherited a team coming off years of bankruptcy with several bad drafts and a bare cupboard. There were not really any bad contracts per se.
     
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  6. serp Registered User

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    That roster the first season under Nill was shockingly bad after Benn and Seguin . Especially some of those depth player but it didn't have bad contracts
     
  7. BigG44 Registered User

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  8. Henderson33 Registered User

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    I gave him a C for now, probably should have said C+ (EDIT: Didn't see I could change my vote). We're in way better shape now than when he first got here but I would have liked to see a little more playoff success, by the end of the season I could go up to a B depending on how the team does in the post-season. His trades & signings have been typically good, and his drafting appears to have improved over the years.

    All-in-all we could have had a much worse guy running the team.
     
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  9. BigG44 Registered User

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    This was my best shot at what guys were available to Nill in April of 2013 before he started making trades or signing people. I didn't include prospects at the time ... that would be a pain. It wasn't great though.

    Jamie Benn
    Loui Eriksson
    Cody Eakin
    Alex Chaisson
    Reilly Smith
    Vern Fiddler
    Matt Fraser
    Ryan Garbutt
    Eric Nystrom
    Antoine Roussel
    Colton Sceviour

    Alex Goligoski
    Stephane Robidas
    Trevor Daley
    Brenden Dillon
    Jamie Oleksiak
    Jordie Benn
    Aaron Rome

    Kari Lehtonen
     
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  10. BigG44 Registered User

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    2012 Draft
    Radek Faksa
    Ludwig Bystrom
    Mike Winther
    Devin Shore
    Esa Lindell
    Gemel Smith
    Branden Troock
    Henri Kiviaho
    Dmitry Sinitsyn

    2011 Draft
    Jamie Oleksiak
    Brett Ritchie
    Emil Molin
    Troy Vance
    Matej Stransky
    Jyrki Jokipakka

    2010 Draft
    Jack Campbell
    Patrik Nemeth
    Alexander Guptill
    Alex Theriau
    John Klingberg
     
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  11. Henderson33 Registered User

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    Dmitry Sinitsyn, ah the memories.
     
  12. sportswastaken Jim Lites Apologist

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    Latvian in shambles.
     
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  13. sportswastaken Jim Lites Apologist

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    I distinctly remember watching this video during the draft. A must watch if you don't know much about his background.
     
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  14. BigG44 Registered User

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    On way to look at this honestly .... Jim Nill did inherit some significant core pieces, and he flipped others for significant assets today.

    Roope Hintz-Tyler Seguin-Corey Perry
    Jamie Benn-Jason Dickinson-Denis Gurianov
    Mattias Janmark-Joe Pavleski-Alexander Radulov
    Andrew Cogliano-Radek Faksa-Blake Comeau
    Justin Dowling

    Esa Lindell-John Klingberg
    Miro Heiskanen-Stephen Johns
    Jamie Oleksiak-Andrej Sekera
    Roman Polak-Taylor Fedun

    Ben Bishop
    Anton Khudobin

    5 players he inherited are on today's team. 6 more are trades of players he inherited.

    Seguin from Eriksson, R. Smith+
    Hintz and Janmark from Cole
    Dickinson from inherited 1st round pick in 2013 (Jagr trade)
    Cogliano from Shore
    Johns from Daley

    *I forgot Erik Cole as an inherited player above
     
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  15. serp Registered User

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    There is one thing that happened under Nills watch that is truely horrific and thats the 2014 draft. I don't even know how a draft that bad can happen. Most drafted guys got discarded within a year or two and never signed an ELC. Only two guys got one and thats Honka and Nyberg and both are gone . Well Honka technically isn't but he ain't playing for the Stars ever again.
     
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  16. eartotheground steam powered gmjn

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  17. BigG44 Registered User

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    He really is average when you think about things like that draft. You have some incredible highs like Seguin and other trades, but you have some highly questionable free agent decisions, a nightmare draft, and this may be too harsh on my part ... but I grade him pretty harshly on the state of goaltending throughout the organization until 2017. He was very slow to rectify that situation, and the decision to come back with Lehtonen and Niemi after that already nightmare season ... that's up there in the bad column.

    Average isn't always bad, and considering what situation he did inherit even if there was some fruit there ... average might be pretty good. I don't think it saves his job though if they stumble in the playoffs. I'm in that sweet spot of I'd be thrilled to see them win, but I would not be shocked or completely upset if he was gone too.

    I think Jim Nill's nightmare scenario is getting bounced by St. Louis ... 1st or 2nd round. Gaglardi, man ... he's not joking around. He thinks Dallas coulda / shoulda beat St. Louis if some injuries go their way. He's been very patient, but I just wonder if 3 playoff series losses to St. Louis is too much for him.

    This off-season has the potential to be very quite with some re-signings or it could be one where a new guy comes in and shakes things up. I'll say this though. I don't think other teams would grade him poorly in Dallas. It might take a few years, but I would bet on him bouncing back with another GM job if he did get fired in Dallas. I don't think he's a bad GM, and even if Gaglardi fired him, I don't think he would believe he was bad. I think it'd be more about being stale or needing a change. He's not a disaster though like some people tend to make him out to be.
     
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  18. FirstRowUpperDeck Registered User

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    I guess its a hard one. In sports, you get graded on W-L and playoff wins. Eventually, the grade drops.

    But, if we are 3rd in west, and 7th in the NHL in record, or top 22.5% of the league, that ain't bad right now.

    But, only winning a few PO series is what the final grade will be. I support him and even I know that. So, I gave him a B+.
     
  19. LatvianTwist Global Moderator Sponsor

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    I'd give him a solid B.

    From a pure managerial standpoint, he's done a fantastic job. He manages his words well, knows how to say a lot without saying anything at all (it's annoying as a fan but great for a manager), and seems to genuinely care about players as people and try to accommodate them as best as he can. He's helped to make Dallas a place with a great reputation and somewhere that players want to play and stay in. This really is a key part of his job and something that can't be understated.

    Drafting has been hit or miss, I'd say. It's gotten better recently, but early on, it was awful. We lost a couple of years of contending because of the 2013-2014 drafts. Look at how the youth now is supplementing the team so well, which is what is keeping us near the top of the standings. Imagine having that 3 years again when Benn and Seguin were near the top of their games. Heiskanen was a braindead choice to make, but the rest has seemed to at worst regress back to the mean.

    Signings and trades have been above-average. He's had some misses but none have really crippled the team severely. Benn and Seguin's contracts might be bad but these were contracts that had to be signed. Any GM would've given those out and had they not, they would've been chased out of town. Everything else has been fine, mostly.

    Cap management has been quite masterful. We've been near the ceiling for the last few years and yet we haven't had any real cap casualties yet, at least not of important core pieces. I don't think anyone is going to complain here.

    Coaching has been bad, but this has been rehashed multiple times. He takes some of the blame, but not all of it. Hitchcock was owner interference, Monty's incident was largely out of his control, etc. I have been a fan of the assistants, and he at least is willing to make a change when one is needed.

    I don't expect to see him be fired unless we have an embarrassing first round loss/miss the playoffs. I think making them and being competitive is enough to buy him another year or two. We're looking like a top 8 team in the league right now, we have elite goaltending that could get hot at the right time, and we certainly play the kind of grinding, defensive style that generally has success in the playoffs. Get there and anything can happen, especially as one of the better teams.

    I've been hesitantly letting myself get more excited about our playoff chances. The fact that we have a high-quality 24+ man roster speaks dividends towards Nill's ability to supplement the (formerly) elite talent with great depth. It's unfortunate that things never lined up properly (and you can rightfully put that on Nill), but the pieces are there. I think we have at least a two-year window and possibly more depending on Robertson, Harley, Gurianov, etc. There's reason to be excited as a Stars' fan.

    So sure, he isn't perfect, but it certainly could be much worse. I'm fine with things as is.
     
  20. LatvianTwist Global Moderator Sponsor

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    It's not going to get as much attention and it's not quite as regular, but it's almost like Washington's issues with Pittsburgh. Once they shook that monkey off their back, look what happened.

    It's not crazy to suggest that we were one goal away from a potential Cup last year. I think everyone would agree that this team is better than last year's, so there's no reason to think we can't go all the way again if we play our game and get a bit of luck.
     
  21. M88K Registered User

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    Voted F initially, then changed it to a D.
    He's living of glory days of past moves (Seguin namely)
    Lot of bad trades and signings between the very few good ones.
    Horrible drafting (yes he gets credit he brought the moron with him from Detroit)
    Oversaw the worst season in 20yrs.
    Can't assess holes on the team.
    Poor Cap management
    Brought in Cogliano.
    Started off pretty good, then it went sour fast and hasn't recovered.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
  22. JesusNPucks Registered User

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    Great, thoughtful post. Sums up a number of my views almost exactly. . .

    Except you did not mention his A+ ‘stache at any point. Therefore, I am reluctant to award you a perfect score. I am truly sorry.
     
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  23. BigG44 Registered User

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    I'm right there with you, and Washington was one I thought about. That said ... so was Minnesota. They didn't have that Washington moment, and they ended up with Fenton.

    7 years is relatively new in terms of an owner so it's hard to gauge how patient Gaglardi will be. That was my only reason to suggest it's at least plausible this is the type of thing other owners have made changes for.

    I won't go so far to say they were a goal away from a Cup. San Jose pushed the Blues to 6 games, and the Bruins took them to Game 7. I don't think it's a slam dunk that Dallas has the exact same results as STL in those series. The Blues were a better team last year. Dallas wouldn't have been hopeless in those series, and I do think they could win those series given the chance last year. I just feel more comfortable saying that sure they were a goal away from the Conference Finals and then who knows.

    I think it's fair to say Dallas is better, but I think it's fair to say St. Louis is still a better team, and Colorado is a better team too. It's not like everyone else was stagnant or got worse.
     
  24. Abilify Wanted Dead and Alive

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    Random thoughts about him

    -Stand up guy
    -Patrick Eaves was multiple acts of brilliance from Nill
    -Impossible to overstate the Seguin trade
    -Should cool it with the cliches in interviews for a while
    -Amateur scouting staff was abhorent
    -Probably should have hired a AHL/developmental goalie coach before 2017 (especially when you inherit Jack Campbell and spend a 2nd on a goalie in your first draft)
    -Solid mustache
    -Gagliardi is a good owner; Nill is lucky to have stable ownership
    -Should probably stop going after guys so far past their prime
    -2016 offseason was a joke at the time and looks even worse with hindsight
    -Wasted Benn's prime with his inability to find goal-tending

    Voted B-
     
  25. serp Registered User

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    Nah . In hindsight he was absolutely correct with that. Basically every single major UFA that offseason who signed somewhere ended up a complete clusterf***. 2016 offseason was the worst free agency class maybe ever . Never seen this many contracts look awful this fast before than it happened that offseason.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
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