Goulet vs Gilbert
- Thread starter Ziostilon
- Start date
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
I say Goulet. He had a little bit of a two-way game and they are otherwise fairly close offensively.
Canadiens1958
Registered User
Michel Goulet
Michel Goulet was an elite level left winger while Rod Gilbert was a very solid right winger. Goulet and it's not even close.
Michel Goulet was an elite level left winger while Rod Gilbert was a very solid right winger. Goulet and it's not even close.
tony d
Registered User
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
I voted for Goulet, but I don't agree that its not even close.
Gilbert played in the Original 6 era and was a scorer immediately on a lousy Rangers team. As a 22 year-old he was second in scoring (by 1 point) on the Rangers and the next year led the team by 15 points. He consistently out scored Jean Ratelle (who was 2 years older) until expansion. He wasn't the scoring machine Goulet was, but guys that excelled at a young age in the 6 team league get a lot of props for me.
Amazing tidbit:
In 1967-1968, Gilbert's numbers were 29-48-77, Ratelle's numbers were 32-46-78
In 1968-1969, Gilbert's numbers were 28-49-77, Ratelle's numbers were 32-46-78
If forced to choose, I'd have to go with the Nordique. Still, when you look at the numbers Rod Gilbert put up in the latter half of his career, after the arrival of 10 expansion teams and the WHA, you have to wonder what kind of numbers he'd have had if he began his career in the 1980s.
Axxellien
Registered User
Rod The Mod....We saw Goulet play in early 1990, the "Guy Lafleur" Nordiques, when Quebec had sunk to Rock Bottom & had become the league's doormat. Goulet, past his prime, played lousy, was really dreadful..No heart left.. Perhaps playing hurt..Was traded to Chicago Shortly after..Gilbert & Ratelle joined New York in the ascendent, Helped make and keep New York a dominant, Elite team..Nothing worse than a very successful Offensive Centerpiece of a very stong & proud Offensive franchise hitting the skids & falling on hard times!! The contrast is terrible!!
Last edited:
I don't know...probably Gilbert. Goulet played in watered down league while Gilbert played half his career in 6 team league. I can remember more about hockey as a kid than I can from '80s era though. lol Maybe that is a factor in my decision
MXD
Original #4
- Oct 27, 2005
- 50,810
- 16,548
... That's a bit like evaluating Dickie Moore using his stint with the Maple Leafs, or Jari Kurri using his stint with the Avalanche.
Axxellien
Registered User
Dickie Moore:
No, but Dickie Moore had not played his career in Toronto...Leafs were an Aftermath,, Goulet had played his successful years in Quebec and was a part of Nordique's descent...
No, but Dickie Moore had not played his career in Toronto...Leafs were an Aftermath,, Goulet had played his successful years in Quebec and was a part of Nordique's descent...
Jungosi
Registered User
In the early seventies the NHL was watered down more than during any time of Goulet's career. With the expansion, the rise of the WHA and the lack of European players this could be considered as the "worst" level of competition the NHL had after WW II.
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
It was relatively the same era. Really low grade hockey. The '60s hockey was about 3 notchers up.
In 1968-69, the second year of the first round of expansion, with an increase of games between the new teams and the original six teams, you see the first real indication of the dilution of talent, and the resulting inflation of the established stars' numbers. Suddenly the 100 point mark was reached, and three players reached it.
In 1972-73, with ten expansion teams and the arrival of the WHA, you see evidence of an even greater dilution of talent and a greater inflation of individual stats. Thirteen players had at least 90 points that year. Of course, there were only three 90 pointers in 1973-74. In 1974-75, with two more teams, the numbers were inflated again. As I pointed out above, Rod Gilbert's stats, in the latter half of his career, indicate how diluted the NHL was becoming in the 1970s.
Both Gilbert and Goulet would be second line players in the old 6 team league. They say 1979-80 season was about the worse season as far as dilution of talent in NHL ever got. After the WHA joined the NHL. Before most players in WHA would not have made NHL anyway. I read a book I think it was by John Ferguson. He said as GM in Winnipeg he was basically scrowling every nickel and dime league giving anybody and everybody a tryout trying to fill out his roster. By '81 more of the euros started to come over and by early '90s the Russians started coming over. Ivan Hlinka and Bubla were the first wave of communist players to play in the NHL.
For about 20 years, from 1972-73 until early '90s, the quality of play in NHL was really bad compared to before. The amount of scoring points some of those guys were running up in the '80s I doubt we will ever see again.
Canadiens1958
Registered User
Except...........
Except Rod Gilbert was the first line RW with the Rangers at the tail end of the O6 era. Michel Goulet was not as good as Bobby Hull or Frank Mahovlich but that would still leave 4 LW slots in the O6 NHL - Vic Hadfield, John Bucyk, Dean Prentice, healthy Gilles Tremblay or Dick Duff. Suspect he could have played first line LW in the O6 NHL.
Your point about the quality of play is under analyzed significantly.
With expansion and the WHA came expansion ownership, management and coaching. Prime examples being the lack of appreciation of first round draft picks by the expansion teams - Boston and Montreal regularly took advantage of the expansion teams in this regard - evidenced by Guy Lafleur and Ray Bourque draft rights being acquired for the equivalent of a few pucks and sticks.
Also with expansion junior sponsorship ceased to existed. Player development suffered as junior draftees were thrown into the NHL without a background grounding them in the team's system(assuming the team had one which in the case of some expansion teams was not the case). Likewise coaching development suffered - coaches were hired from outside an organization and had little opportunity to adapt to an established team structure.Also the NHL was the last major league to start hiring regular assistant coaches. There were a few exceptions - Claude Ruel filled the role with the Canadiens under Toe Blake. Guess you could say King Clancy a bit with Toronto.
Finally the NHL was behind the technology curve, Roger Neilson gets credit for introducing video as a teaching and scouting tool but this came years after high school football teams were using game tapes - regardless of how primitive, in the USA and Canada.
Except Rod Gilbert was the first line RW with the Rangers at the tail end of the O6 era. Michel Goulet was not as good as Bobby Hull or Frank Mahovlich but that would still leave 4 LW slots in the O6 NHL - Vic Hadfield, John Bucyk, Dean Prentice, healthy Gilles Tremblay or Dick Duff. Suspect he could have played first line LW in the O6 NHL.
Your point about the quality of play is under analyzed significantly.
With expansion and the WHA came expansion ownership, management and coaching. Prime examples being the lack of appreciation of first round draft picks by the expansion teams - Boston and Montreal regularly took advantage of the expansion teams in this regard - evidenced by Guy Lafleur and Ray Bourque draft rights being acquired for the equivalent of a few pucks and sticks.
Also with expansion junior sponsorship ceased to existed. Player development suffered as junior draftees were thrown into the NHL without a background grounding them in the team's system(assuming the team had one which in the case of some expansion teams was not the case). Likewise coaching development suffered - coaches were hired from outside an organization and had little opportunity to adapt to an established team structure.Also the NHL was the last major league to start hiring regular assistant coaches. There were a few exceptions - Claude Ruel filled the role with the Canadiens under Toe Blake. Guess you could say King Clancy a bit with Toronto.
Finally the NHL was behind the technology curve, Roger Neilson gets credit for introducing video as a teaching and scouting tool but this came years after high school football teams were using game tapes - regardless of how primitive, in the USA and Canada.
Last edited:
GNick, while it's true that many of the players in the WHA would not have made it in the NHL, and especially so if the WHA had never arrived, there were indeed players in the WHA who would have been in the NHL without the temptation of the WHA. The loss of each one of those players, and the replacement of those players by lesser players, did weaken the competitiveness of the NHL during the WHA era.
Allow me to further emphasize the point Canadiens1958 made about Rod Gilbert. No. 7 did establish himself as a first line player before the NHL expanded. His point totals in 1963-64 and 1964-65 may look underwhelming, today, but the fact is that Rod did finish in the top ten in both seasons. Gordie Howe was the only right winger who topped him in points in both seasons. It might be interesting to rank the right wingers then playing in the NHL.
