Goodenow's Second Letter To Bettman

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tantalum said:
I really don't mind if they do put linkage such that it only applies with rising revenues. I think that is doable if and only if this season gets saved because there would be a reasonable expectation that revenues will bounce back quite quickly. But with if they want that then they have to accept a harder hit at the beginning and come down to the NHL's proposed cap. Or they can hope Gary got a little more wiggles room during the night.



How do you quantify that escalator? It would have to be to revenue growth. So an escalator is linked to revenue. How do you do that link without using a percentage? You can't just pull an arbitrary number out of the hat. The percentage gives the reasoning behind an increase. The PA is finally seeing things properly and realise they are going to want linkage by the end of the agreement. But it all means the union has to have those discussion about revenue streams. Something they are unprepared to do.

Now I do think this is a compromise the NHL can make. They have agreed in principle to a hard cap that is not linked so they have agreed to a lower limit the cap will be at for the term of the CBA. If they are willing to throw that bone to the players they believe that revenues will rebound provided the season is saved. I think they can throw them this escalator bone as well BUT if the players want that they have to come down to the NHL starting point or very near it IMO. I don't think Bettman has much wiggle room on that left...perhaps his bosses gave him another $1-2 mil but I doubt it. Essentially they'd be agreeing to the Feb framework with a cap set at a $42.5 mil (+2.2) instead of $40, that the cap can not be lower than that, and pretty much all the other throw away stuff goes the players way as per the Dec 9th offer (which were essentially throwaways for the owners to get the system yet they still gain in all those areas compared to last CBA), and the revenue percentage will be a bit higher.

Really that is the best the union can expect. They can be pissed at the letter last night but it stated simple fact: If the season is cancelled it is all downhill for the players. The league has them by the balls and the league is going to squeeze and make them scream a bit and frankly I can't blame them.
Good post.

The other concession the league could make without changing the top # is a relatively high low end cap--say around $30 M (with enough revenue sharing to help teams meet this figure.)
 

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Thunderstruck said:
Good post.

The other concession the league could make without changing the top # is a relatively high low end cap--say around $30 M (with enough revenue sharing to help teams meet this figure.)

AS I said it could be the leagues payroll floor/payroll ceiling offer with some changes made to it to insulate the players from the revenue drop. Despite the PA saying they wouldn't negotiate that deal they have ended up negotiating on it by coming through the back door.

I think I said that was the Feb offer...should clarify that it's the cap offer not the trigger riddled hybrid I'm talking about.
 

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go kim johnsson said:
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol



The joke is on you Gary if you cancel the season.


How does Gary cancel the season?
Seriously?
Bettman said "FInal offer". He locked the players out.
He has the power to cancel the season.

Put the blame where it belongs.
 

joepeps

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Newsguyone said:
How does Gary cancel the season?
Seriously?
Bettman said "FInal offer". He locked the players out.
He has the power to cancel the season.

Put the blame where it belongs.

Exctly I hop ehe cancels the season and gets fired 5 mins.. no 1 min after :lol:
 

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joepeps said:
Exctly I hop ehe cancels the season and gets fired 5 mins.. no 1 min after :lol:

If you think he is cancelling the season without the support of the majority of owners, then you aren't thinking this through.
 

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Thunderstruck said:
If you think he is cancelling the season without the support of the majority of owners, then you aren't thinking this through.

There is no way the owners want to cancel the season now.
1. They got a cap.
2. They got a rollback.
3. They are relatively close on the cap number, and the difference really is neglible. Detroit having the ability to sepnd $42.5 or $49 million doesn't really impact Edmonton's ability to keep their own players under contract (for the small minded, hyperventilating player haters, let's keep things in relative terms. think about what's on the table. and then think about what existed until now. This is a gigantic improvement.)
4. There is no need to cancel the season, unless the goal all along has been to take this to the labor board. But for what? You've got a cap. You won't win anything at the labor board after what has just transpired.

Time to get it done.
 

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Newsguyone said:
There is no way the owners want to cancel the season now.
1. They got a cap.
2. They got a rollback.
3. They are relatively close on the cap number, and the difference really is neglible. Detroit having the ability to sepnd $42.5 or $49 million doesn't really impact Edmonton's ability to keep their own players under contract (for the small minded, hyperventilating player haters, let's keep things in relative terms. think about what's on the table. and then think about what existed until now. This is a gigantic improvement.)
4. There is no need to cancel the season, unless the goal all along has been to take this to the labor board. But for what? You've got a cap. You won't win anything at the labor board after what has just transpired.

Time to get it done.
You make many baseless assumptions.

The fact remains that Bettman will walk to the mic in less than two hours and cancel the season. Perhaps it is time to re-think your assumptions.

Bettman is acting in an arbitrary manner because he can. Why?

He has the support of the owners and an opponent on the run. That's why.
 

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Thunderstruck said:
You make many baseless assumptions.

The fact remains that Bettman will walk to the mic in less than two hours and cancel the season. Perhaps it is time to re-think your assumptions.

Bettman is acting in an arbitrary manner because he can. Why?

He has the support of the owners and an opponent on the run. That's why.


We shall see.
I don't believe that decent hockey men like Mike Illitch will let Bettman cancel the season when he's already won far more than he ever needed.
If you think the NHL has lost favor with fans now (as Bettman stated in the letter), wait and see what it's like when Bettman cancels the season.

See, Bettman won his cap. He won 99 percent of everything there was to win.
The fans, for the most part, supported him.

But that's about to change, as evidenced by the early results of the poll I started.

People realize the players have made MAJOR concessions. They realize that the players have made an effort to get this done.
They were infuriated or disappointed by Bettman's Take It Or Leave It offer.

Many of those on the NHL's side are now questioning Bettman's desire to get this done.

He might squeeze a few more million out of this.

But if he cancels the season, it ain't gonna be pretty.
 

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Newsguyone said:
We shall see.
I don't believe that decent hockey men like Mike Illitch will let Bettman cancel the season when he's already won far more than he ever needed.
If you think the NHL has lost favor with fans now (as Bettman stated in the letter), wait and see what it's like when Bettman cancels the season.

See, Bettman won his cap. He won 99 percent of everything there was to win.
The fans, for the most part, supported him.

But that's about to change, as evidenced by the early results of the poll I started.

People realize the players have made MAJOR concessions. They realize that the players have made an effort to get this done.
They were infuriated or disappointed by Bettman's Take It Or Leave It offer.

Many of those on the NHL's side are now questioning Bettman's desire to get this done.

He might squeeze a few more million out of this.

But if he cancels the season, it ain't gonna be pretty.
Who said it would be pretty?

Gary is going for a total KO and if you believe he doesn't have the support of ownership, then you are kidding yourself.

The bottom line is that the owners hold the cards and the players will totally fold or suffer the consequence.
 

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Thunderstruck said:
Who said it would be pretty?

Gary is going for a total KO and if you believe he doesn't have the support of ownership, then you are kidding yourself.

The bottom line is that the owners hold the cards and the players will totally fold or suffer the consequence.

Ah. Not so sure.
That was very true 48 hours ago.
But now the players have signed on for the cap and the roll back.
Alll they have to lose now is about 25 to 30 percent of their paycheck.

They can't lose much more than they have already lost.

Bettman can't win an impasse ruling anymore.

We'll see. Bettman is trying to squeeze every last drop from the players. He's probably in a room full of fat cats, slapping each other on the back right now.

But there is no way he cancels now.
None.
The NHL has a chance to get a good deal and still salvage the season and raise the cup.
If Bettman gets petty now and cancels the season (which I doubt) the NHL is doomed.
 

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Newsguyone said:
Bettman can't win an impasse ruling anymore.

You are 100% wrong in making this statement as an absolute.

The FORMER HEAD OF THE NLRB was on radio last night and clearly stated that nothing that has taken place so far precludes the POSSIBILITY of impasse being declared and won.
 

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Thunderstruck said:
You are 100% wrong in making this statement as an absolute.

The FORMER HEAD OF THE NLRB was on radio last night and clearly stated that nothing that has taken place so far precludes the POSSIBILITY of impasse being declared and won.

Is the NLRB going to declare an impasse because the league and the NHL couldn't find a way to bridge a $6.5 Million cap in less than 16 hours?

Hell no.

The philisophical impasse is over.

This is a numbers game now. It might have become a numbers game too late in the game. But that's what it is.
ANd the NLRB ain't gonna get involved in a numbers game when the parties have spent just 12 hours negotiating the most recent offer.

Take that to the bank.
 

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Newsguyone said:
Is the NLRB going to declare an impasse because the league and the NHL couldn't find a way to bridge a $6.5 Million cap in less than 16 hours?

Hell no.

The philisophical impasse is over.

This is a numbers game now. It might have become a numbers game too late in the game. But that's what it is.
ANd the NLRB ain't gonna get involved in a numbers game when the parties have spent just 12 hours negotiating the most recent offer.

Take that to the bank.

The expert dealt directly with this issue and clearly stated that an impasse could be achieved over monetary differences.
 

Donnie D

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Newsguyone said:
Is the NLRB going to declare an impasse because the league and the NHL couldn't find a way to bridge a $6.5 Million cap in less than 16 hours?

Hell no.

Your right - no way would they permit impass if they were only $6.5 million apart. But they will permit an impass over a $1.16 Billion difference, which is where we were this morning.
 
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