Goodenow Leaves New York, No Deal - per TSN, 590

[BLONG7]

Goodenow is now realizing that he miscalculated the owners' resolve.

This is why he should be fired by the players...

 

[417]

This is why he should be fired by the players...

That's right, he's lead them down a path that they should of never entered, I will say that Goodenow has brass balls though...

 

[Oilrunner]

This is one day where I wish it was April fools and they were just s**ting us!!

 

[Lobstertainment]

That is impossible.

There is no way they went 13+ hours and made no progress, none what so ever.

Even if we took the biggest Pro-Owners member and the biggest Pro-PA Fanboy on the boards and had them argue like children for 13 hours they would eventually make some kind of progress.

I find it immpossible to belive to professional groups could talk for 13 hours negotiating and make no progress...

Summery: I ****ing hate Saskin.

 

[417]

That is impossible.

There is no way they went 13+ hours and made no progress, none what so ever.

Even if we took the biggest Pro-Owners member and the biggest Pro-PA Fanboy on the boards and had them argue like children for 13 hours they would eventually make some kind of progress.

I find it immpossible to belive to professional groups could talk for 13 hours negotiating and make no progress...

Summery: I ****ing hate Saskin.

It's funny how such logical thinking can be lost on so many here

 

[OilerFan4Life]

Goodenow is now realizing that he miscalculated the owners' resolve.

Are you thinking what im thinking....hmmmm maybe Saskin's gonna be in charge.

 

[Russian Fan]

Goodenow is now realizing that he miscalculated the owners' resolve.

This is why he should be fired by the players...

Try putting aside your pro-owners side for a second. Why should he be fired ? Closer & closer to cancelling the season, the owners got a lot more to lose. Half of the franchises could be dead with a season cancelled & the other half is angry because they would make money with a luxury tax system.

The players already more than 70% of this year paycheck so what do they have to lose ? 30% , not worthy to cave on EVERYTHING the owners wishes to get.

Players are already playing everywhere & owners franchises is close to getting devaluated as soon as a season is cancelled.

Right now you heard a lot about how some players would accept a form of cap but that doesn't mean they will accept

a) a linkage to the revenues
b) keeping the UFA @ 30
c) having an individual cap
d) meaningless revenue sharing from the rich team to the poor team.
e) arbitration
f) etc....

I'm not pro-players nor pro-owners but Goodenow got more bargaining power as time goes by because there's probably a lot of pressure to save the season & I'm not talking about the Jacobs, Wirtz of this world !

I don't necessarely agree with the Goodenow approach but owners need to negotiate in good faith & give something to the players. They already won the CBA no matter when there is gonna be a deal. Now it's a matter from the owner side if you want the ''WINNER TAKES ALL'' approach or if you want to try to work something in order to put people talk about hockey & not $.

 

[PecaFan]

A ha ha ha. :lol Just saw clown Goodenow storm out of the meeting. Lower lip trembling... but-but-but, they were supposed to *cave* by now? What's going on!! Why isn't this WORKING!! They always cave when I deadline hunt!!"

What a maroon.

Looks good on ya, Bob.

 

[BLONG7]

That's right, he's lead them down a path that they should of never entered, I will say that Goodenow has brass balls though...

I think that he may have brass balls, but if he doesn't then he has just crossed the line into obscurity, losing his boys a billion dollars...Looks good on him...

 

[Biggest Canuck Fan]

Right now you heard a lot about how some players would accept a form of cap

So everything you mentioned about the players not wanting is moot at this point.

All Goddenow has to do is say, OK the players will accept a cap, but not at what you suggest...

they then make a deal from there.

You know as well as I do the number one issue is a cap. If the owners cannot get off linkage to revenue then I will place the blame squarely at them cause the players have moved.

You have to give to get, and it seems right now Goodenow is not even willing to listen to his own bosses, the players.

 

[Russian Fan]

So everything you mentioned about the players not wanting is moot at this point.

All Goddenow has to do is say, OK the players will accept a cap, but not at what you suggest...

they then make a deal from there.

You know as well as I do the number one issue is a cap. If the owners cannot get off linkage to revenue then I will place the blame squarely at them cause the players have moved.

You have to give to get, and it seems right now Goodenow is not even willing to listen to his own bosses, the players.

when everypoint of the proposals is 100% on the owners side, saying you will agree with a cap without linkage doesn't mean anything. Right now it's more Daly & Bettman saying they won't budge on anything.

Can you tell me where the OWNERS compromise so far ? Where ?

- Giving 1 UFA year (31 to 30) is not compromising it's less than before.

- Arbitration : new system owner's way

- Rookie cap : is maybe the only point where both side agree but it's not compromise from the owners , it's the PA's who's willing to give it to them.

- Individual cap is again owner's way

Hard stance of Bettman-Daly won't go anywhere except leading them to war & confrontation with the PA.

 

[mr gib]

Goodenow....Howard Berger said this was as upset as he's seen Goodenow throughout this process.

he should be - gary bettman is trying to bust the union - its quite plain to see - the players have to hang tough -

 

[krandor]

when everypoint of the proposals is 100% on the owners side, saying you will agree with a cap without linkage doesn't mean anything. Right now it's more Daly & Bettman saying they won't budge on anything.

Can you tell me where the OWNERS compromise so far ? Where ?

All those are side issues in relation to linkage. If the NHLPA agrees to linkage, the owners will agree to major changed in UFA, Arbitraton, etc. The players could get a good deal if they just include linkage.

 

[i am dave]

when everypoint of the proposals is 100% on the owners side, saying you will agree with a cap without linkage doesn't mean anything. Right now it's more Daly & Bettman saying they won't budge on anything.

Can you tell me where the OWNERS compromise so far ? Where ?

- Giving 1 UFA year (31 to 30) is not compromising it's less than before.

- Arbitration : new system owner's way

- Rookie cap : is maybe the only point where both side agree but it's not compromise from the owners , it's the PA's who's willing to give it to them.

- Individual cap is again owner's way

Hard stance of Bettman-Daly won't go anywhere except leading them to war & confrontation with the PA.

Come on, you need to realize that everything in the owner's proposal was negotiable. I seriously doubt they spent 13 hours arguing about the UFA age. If the Players said UFA at 29 would get them to agree to a cap, the owners would be all over it. Arbitration the owners way? I'll say it one more time, every word in the proposal after "mutual arbitration" was fluff to be negotiated out of the CBA. There is only one sticking point - a cap, and its linkage to revenue.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

So everything you mentioned about the players not wanting is moot at this point.

All Goddenow has to do is say, OK the players will accept a cap, but not at what you suggest...

they then make a deal from there.

You know as well as I do the number one issue is a cap. If the owners cannot get off linkage to revenue then I will place the blame squarely at them cause the players have moved.

You have to give to get, and it seems right now Goodenow is not even willing to listen to his own bosses, the players.

Well said, and I am surprised that they did not do just that . . . even at a ridiculous number such as $80 million. Hell, they have lost the perception war throughout this, that would at least make them seem more reasonable to the public. But instead you have no counter proposal since the first week in December from the PA. Amazing how stupidly they have been led.

Oh, for those saying the that pressure is squarely on the owners, I want some of what you are drinking. I have said this many times. Four year careers on average for players. One down, another seemingly on the way. If your name is not Joe Thorton, etc, you are going to be screaming for a deal, any deal, once next year starts to be lost. The owners would feel pain, but in reality very little. They make their money on franchise values. Get that Cap and franchise values would soar. Not bad for losing a year or so of hockey, they would end up making money. The players? Most would be losing a quarter, a third, half of their short careers as this winds into a second year. Where do you think that the pressure lies most?

 

[futurcorerock]

- Giving 1 UFA year (31 to 30) is not compromising it's less than before.

- Arbitration : new system owner's way

- Rookie cap : is maybe the only point where both side agree but it's not compromise from the owners , it's the PA's who's willing to give it to them.

- Individual cap is again owner's way

In my opinion, those aspects are lopsided in favor of the union. It's all about fairness at this point right now. Everything needs to be on level ground for a sick league to get back on its feet. Who said that this deal is permaneat? The League made the concession to open the talks back up after a few years... is that not a major concession or what?

 

[VAN-HAB]

I don't know why but I am still optimistic, they will meet again soon, if not tonight for sure tomorrow. I am also pretty sure that Linden will be there too. This season won't be cancelled. They are playing hard a dangerous game that will end soon.

 

[free0717]

Come on, you need to realize that everything in the owner's proposal was negotiable. I seriously doubt they spent 13 hours arguing about the UFA age. If the Players said UFA at 29 would get them to agree to a cap, the owners would be all over it. Arbitration the owners way? I'll say it one more time, every word in the proposal after "mutual arbitration" was fluff to be negotiated out of the CBA. There is only one sticking point - a cap, and its linkage to revenue.

You nailed it right on the head. I couldnt have said it better myself. When the players realize that the only deal they will ever get is one with a cap and its linkage, then they will get a deal. Not before. Never before in sports has an ownership group been so united. As much as billionaires like to own sport franchises, they love to win battles including labor battles. The owners are united, they all have other revenue streams, meanwhile the NHL players are averaging $150K per year in Europe when they can make 1.3 mill in the NHL. Something doesnt make good business sense, does it?

 

[hyena]

when i heard what happened at the meeting today, i gave up. ...but there is part of me that believes (foolishly, perhaps) that both sides know how badly a cancelled season will damage the game. only time will tell, i guess...there clearly isn't much left.

 

[free0717]

I don't know why but I am still optimistic, they will meet again soon, if not tonight for sure tomorrow. I am also pretty sure that Linden will be there too. This season won't be cancelled. They are playing hard a dangerous game that will end soon.

The players have to fire Goodenow and bring in someone else. Goodenow job was to get a deal with no cap and Goodenow as long as he is head of the Union will never agree to it no matter what his constituancy wants.

 

[barnburner]

Well said, and I am surprised that they did not do just that . . . even at a ridiculous number such as $80 million. Hell, they have lost the perception war throughout this, that would at least make them seem more reasonable to the public. But instead you have no counter proposal since the first week in December from the PA. Amazing how stupidly they have been led.

Oh, for those saying the that pressure is squarely on the owners, I want some of what you are drinking. I have said this many times. Four year careers on average for players. One down, another seemingly on the way. If your name is not Joe Thorton, etc, you are going to be screaming for a deal, any deal, once next year starts to be lost. The owners would feel pain, but in reality very little. They make their money on franchise values. Get that Cap and franchise values would soar. Not bad for losing a year or so of hockey, they would end up making money. The players? Most would be losing a quarter, a third, half of their short careers as this winds into a second year. Where do you think that the pressure lies most?

Good points. Without a cap - these franchises are only worth a fraction of what they will be worth when they finally get a cap. The owners can easily sit out 2 or 3 season, and then still make money by selling the franchise after the cba is signed with a cap in place.

 

[Lady Rhian]

The season is over, IMO. No deal made by now, then they'll be no time left for them to get a season going. By the time they try to start a training camp, get players back from Europe and other places and all the other things that need to be done before a season starts, it would take about another 2-3 weeks. They don't have this time on their side left for this.

It irks me, that there was NO sense of urgency before this. They waited and waited until now for all these meetings, and still, they can't come to some blasted agreement.

And now, instead of doing the proper and FAIR thing to do for the fans, and just cancel the damn season, they keep the fans dangling for about another week, by then, everyone will get it that it's over.

 

[Chileiceman]

What I don't understand is why didn't they have their rear ends in meetings ever since september 15. They were going to have to meet sooner or later why wait for 5 months playing with their thumbs.
Now I hope they don't wait till next season to start talking. If that happens I wouldn't be surprised to hear on the news: Goodenow and Betmann kidnapped till they sign a deal.

 

[two out of three*]

Ok, I know i posted this in another thread, but I felt I had to post it again, just to add my thoughts.

I like to consider myself a neutral supporter. In some instances I agree with the PA, and in some instances I agree with the Owners. But when the players in the NHL signed in the NHL, they abide to play under the rules. Play under the leagues rules. Its not the players game. They can't take the game over.

If you do not like the conditions you are playing under then just leave. By signing into the NHL you should have thought about the working conditions. Now, they ***** and moan at the owners for certain things they don't like about the game. Well, news flash.. Its not your job to decide what goes on in the NHL. All you do is play in the league, not make business decisions. If the NHL wants to implement a hard cap, then so be it. Thats the way it should be.

The players get paid to play hockey. Thats what they lived their entire lives for. For them to try and decide how the league should be run is ridiculous. Now, no I don't agree that a Hard Cap is the only way, as a matter of fact I think that the owners should back off that stance. Its not a perfect world, there are going to be flaws in every CBA proposed. The players have to understand that.

Now I know this argument is going to pop up. Ok, if your boss makes a change that you don't like. And this CHANGE will BETTER THE ENVIORNMENT THAT YOU WORK IN, You don't STOP working. You keep working even if you don't like the change. Eventually its gonna be known that the change he made is not very popular around the office, (construction field, w/e) and he will consider a change. Nobody likes to have unhappy employees.

The players just have to live with the fact that there is going to be a hard cap. I know that it may not seem right, but they have to deal with it. Probably if there is still an outcry that they hate it, it will get changed. But the fact of the matter is they are still getting paid to play hockey (which is supposed to be the game they love) so why can't they put money aside? Its not like they aren't going to get paid.

To me its horrible to see what sports (mostly the NHL) has become. It has become filled with greed from both sides really. Players, and the business of hockey should be two different things.

 

[st5801]

The season is over, IMO. No deal made by now, then they'll be no time left for them to get a season going. By the time they try to start a training camp, get players back from Europe and other places and all the other things that need to be done before a season starts, it would take about another 2-3 weeks. They don't have this time on their side left for this.

It irks me, that there was NO sense of urgency before this. They waited and waited until now for all these meetings, and still, they can't come to some blasted agreement.

And now, instead of doing the proper and FAIR thing to do for the fans, and just cancel the damn season, they keep the fans dangling for about another week, by then, everyone will get it that it's over.

I don't think there's time either. I know its very unlikely, but maybe Bettman is just shooting for some type of playoff tournament? It would upset a lot of fans, but he might prefer it to canceling since it would probably be a hit among less "serious" fans, and help to increase interest in the game. If thats the case, these negotiations could go on for weeks.