Good chance for Crosby to land in Metro N.Y.

[NYIsles1*]

The Rangers = NHL exposure in the USA, pure and simple. Those who are saying otherwise are just biased. I hope you find some happiness in your bias because it will not improve the standing of Hocky in society. I as an islander am biased against the Rangers. Living in the biggest sports city in the world it is impossible to ignore the facts. In 1 million years hockey will never beat out any of the other sports for unless its the Rangers.

Respectfully, maybe you should research the history of hockey in
this market. Instead of talking about bias convince me why I am wrong based on what I'm presenting here.

The Rangers were around long before 94 and went to several finals and semi-finals, I do not recall any articles claiming New York= NHL exposure in the US in those days, not even in 1979. You should also note the Devils came here based on the Islanders success in this market, the Rangers almost wound up in New Jersey ahead of them because of the property tax exemption they needed at the time to survive.

The history in this market from what I remember is any Islander regular season game could receive the back pages in Manhattan on any night against any team a long time ago. Hockey and it's season was religion here for both the Islanders and the Rangers with their finals against Boston and Chicago. There used to be a baseball off-season and more media interested in hockey players because they had more time and space to cover it. When the Islanders won the cup in was a huge New York sports story. The rivalry with Boston, Philadelphia were huge local news and the road games were on free television and reached everyone. Some want to talk about Hockey's peak being three weeks in 94, that was three teams providing a great show with Canada involved, there was a time here hockey did not need a peak because it that good all the time. Too many here are not old enough to have seen hockey's true sustained peak in this market. What some claim was 94's peak did not sustain itself past only a three month lockout.

There is a history in this market for hockey, a past history and a contemporary history and I respectfully think your ignoring both. The contemporary history is the New York Rangers with the some of highest payrolls and some of the greatest star individual talents in league history could not receive any attention during the regular season in this market whether they won or lost for over a decade even going to the
semi-finals.

Look at that names on those teams? Losing should have been even a bigger story than winning. The media was too busy covering baseball and the other major sports until they discovered they have so much baseball now they do not need hockey at all, why is what the television people discovered at Espn/Fox/Abc.

The Rangers, Islanders and Devils are down to their one beatwriter and one article most days, there is no longer any window to compete with baseball because it dominates the New York public interest and the media year-round. Only one hundred thousand homes tuned in on Msg-Fox on nights all three teams played. Ranger ratings for 82 games with a payroll near 80m? (0.75) Only die-hards like us seem to be left.

Islanders got a marginal bump during the Leafs series but little more. Hockey cannot compete with the baseball buzz in this market, from winter meetings to rumors to big games to exhibition season, that's the hockey market here and it's not changing anytime soon. The radio people will not talk about it, the television people want no part of it and the Mike Lupica's only acknowlege it when Bertuzzi-Moore happen to explain why he does not take it seriously.

That's the same Mike Lupica who called Nassau Coliseum, " Fort Neverlose".

The rivalry games used to get three days of hype beforehand, now the
Mets-Yankees and Red Sox own that hype in this market an Islander-Ranger-Devil game is barely acknowleged on gameday.

There are 2 other Metro area teams that have great fan bases and they can barely get regular columns written on them.

I cannot speak for the Devils but the same four people assigned to cover the Isles in the four local papers cover the Rangers, rarely is a second article written or a columnist provided to give opinion and when it is it's someone who knows little about hockey or it's players.

And NO Crosby does not = sucess for the Rangers. What he does = is a big time PR coup. He will bring a huge "buzz" to the NY area..

Where was the buzz with all these other superstars, even Gretzky himself went to the Conference Finals as a Ranger. Tell me why on a daily basis a market with less star players and teams will not cover Crosby more when they have less to cover?

You know the same media that will cover him in New York will be in Carolina when it comes to the press in Canada. They are going to follow him daily regardless of where he plays.

BTW it would be a great thing if the Rangers could get better quickly as their is a major opportunity to increase exposure while the Knicks arent getting the back pages.

Do you live in this market? The Yankees and Mets own the back and front pages year round. The Giants, Jets, Knicks and Nets get the rest along with the event of the day Nationally. Do you see that the Yankee-Sox Preview (not game) got every backpage over the lock out ending here. Explain where all this Crosby coverage is coming from against this kind of competition in this sports market when seven million people off all-demographics attend baseball while one attends hockey?

Everyone loves small market teams who have sucess and overcome financial restraints. It was great when the Marlins beat the Yankees, San Antonio ousted LA in the playoffs a few years ago, and so on. The fact of the matter remains that the New York and to a lesser extent LA teams bring more to any league than any small market team and there is no way to even argue otherwise.

Not even New York-New York World Series did that nationally so how can this be your point when it's not true. As we learned last November the Blue States do not control the country.

 

[Brooklyndevil]

I don't know if I'd call 10.4% a good chance.

Or you can look at it from my point of view, 10.4% is the best chance of any other.

And the Metro NY is not regional, it's "Metro". Most people who live in NYC, parts of New Jersey, Long Island and even Connecticut can drive to all three arena's within a hour, hour 1/2.

 

[Brooklyndevil]

The odds are even greater if you consider Buffalo, who has the max amount of balls.

Living in Brooklyn, it's easy to catch home games of all local three teams, Buffalo is a bit of a ride . However, read that Sabres have no current T.V. contract and might be signing on with MSG Network. Not sure if this is accurate Sabre fans?

 

[NJDevils#4]

The odds are even greater if you consider Buffalo, who has the max amount of balls.

Thorw in Philly to who is about 45 minutes away give or take

 

[Brooklyndevil]

Thorw in Philly to who is about 45 minutes away give or take

Philly is not part of the Metro NY area. Nor are they part of MSG Network that broadcasts Ranger, Devil and Islander games.

 

[mercury]

If NYC were 45 minutes away by anything other than airplane, I'd hang out in Manhattan more often.

 

[Aldous Snow]

NYISLES I still hold to my earlier statement. There is some validity to the point that the Rangers never created ratings before 1994 but you have to look at sports as a whole before then also. That is about the same time sports started to become the big business that it is. Also prior to that the 90's all people could see because of TV exposure was their own market. Nationally televised games got ratings by virtue of what they were, the biggest thing on TV to watch BY FAR. If you look at the factors going into todays audiences for anything on TV there are so many micro niches that it is really much different landscape and cannot be compared fairly.

Im basically going off memory so I am going to hit the points of your that I can remember.

- I live on Long island, have for years, and read the paper everyday. MLB does dominant the backpages however in season football gets its fair share. I agree again that all 3 local NHL teams get = representation (1 article a day in season). The Rangers do however usually get more space than the Isles and Devs (The devs are usually hidden in the middle of the paper somewhere).

- Your subway series comparison doesnt make sense because I am not advocating a Rangers - Islanders conference finals or anything like that. I am just stating that the Rangers need to be good for the NHL to get its max exposure. You would definately agree that the Yankees are the biggest MLB franchise wouldnt you?

Whichever way you want to cut it NY is one of the biggest markets in the NHL. It being sucessful is good for the NHL. NY also happens to be the center of the sports universe. Any league would love to have the NY market thriving. I am not saying the Rangers need to win the SC (and I never did). I am simply saying the NHL is a different place when Rangers are in the playoffs. And more than ever the NHL needs all the exposure it can get. The sports universe starts in NY with all sports.

 

[KH1]

NYIsles1 you yet again hit the nail on the head. The Rangers sold out every night and people said that the 20,000 people who regularly attended Rangers games were just about the only ones in the area who gave a damn about hockey. Then the Isles came along and sold out as well. People all around the country will care about hockey if the players make it relevant and interesting to them, no matter where the best player is.

Look at Lebron James in Cleveland. The Cavs had among the worst attendance in basketball when he was drafted, and he's done nothing but great things for both the Cavs and the NBA. If Crosby ended up in a city in the same state with higher attendance, it would be considered a tragedy for some reason.

There is even the potential for Crosby to be hurt by the Rangers. To put it bluntly, they've been terrible for a long time now and it's not for lack of talent on their roster. If they can't win with Crosby around in New York, the media will start pointing fingers quickly. Renney and Slats would be gone quickly, and then the target shifts to Sid the Kid...

 

[Aldous Snow]

NYIsles1 you yet again hit the nail on the head. The Rangers sold out every night and people said that the 20,000 people who regularly attended Rangers games were just about the only ones in the area who gave a damn about hockey. Then the Isles came along and sold out as well. People all around the country will care about hockey if the players make it relevant and interesting to them, no matter where the best player is.

Look at Lebron James in Cleveland. The Cavs had among the worst attendance in basketball when he was drafted, and he's done nothing but great things for both the Cavs and the NBA. If Crosby ended up in a city in the same state with higher attendance, it would be considered a tragedy for some reason.

There is even the potential for Crosby to be hurt by the Rangers. To put it bluntly, they've been terrible for a long time now and it's not for lack of talent on their roster. If they can't win with Crosby around in New York, the media will start pointing fingers quickly. Renney and Slats would be gone quickly, and then the target shifts to Sid the Kid...

Thats all great but nobody in any other state is going to get as much press time as a big player in NY. MSG had a streak (both Rangers and Knicks) of sellouts that spanned almost a decade. That is an astonishing feat in this day and age in any sport other than football. It is almost the equivalent of the Yankees and Red Sox pre selling every single seat in the stadium.

Do you guys really see Crosby leading a franchise like the Predators into the limelight as the poster child of the NHL? Yeah that would get as much play as Crosby starring on Broadway every night.

On Edit: BTW who is Lebron rumored to go to in a few years when he is a Free Agent because in Cleveland he just isnt getting the exposure he is looking for? I am a Net fan and I absolutely dread the idea of Lebron being in NY but once again it would bring more light to the NBA so it is good for everybody. Just as long as the Nets still have VC and beat them every chance they get.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Uh, since the lottery is held behind closed doors, I'm sure the Rangers will get first pick. I'm sure that's already being agreed to.

why in the world would the 29 other GM's agree to that. This is ridiculous for people to be calling this a "fix". God i hate conspiracy theorists. their correct like 1 out of a billion times, and if they are ever even close to right, they shove it in everyone's face. If NYR wins, we'll never hear the end of "it was fixed". This is coming from a NJD fan.

 

[NYIsles1*]

NYISLES I still hold to my earlier statement. There is some validity to the point that the Rangers never created ratings before 1994 but you have to look at sports as a whole before then also. That is about the same time sports started to become the big business that it is. Also prior to that the 90's all people could see because of TV exposure was their own market. Nationally televised games got ratings by virtue of what they were, the biggest thing on TV to watch BY FAR. If you look at the factors going into todays audiences for anything on TV there are so many micro niches that it is really much different landscape and cannot be compared fairly.

I am which is part of my point. The hockey coverage we saw here in the seventies and eighties in terms of being a big market was incredible back in those days and far superior to what is is now. The Islanders got their fan base playing road games on channel nine with no home telecasts, today everyone has television access to all home and away games and ratings for all three teams are horrible. This is not even half of what it was thirty years ago. Hockey took ten steps back, baseball took ten steps forward from where it was thirty years ago. Can you imagine if Msg-Fox decided to stop televising Ranger and Islander home games and force die-hards into the buildings at those prices? In those days you could not keep people away, not anymore...

I have to ask how has hockey become big business in New York? There is no advertising, no marketing here and in thirty plus years Ron Duguay's Sasson commercial is the only ad I have ever seen. We can discuss micro niches and audiances and maybe I'm misreading your point but hockey is not even what it was thirty years ago, not even close. The media got bigger, the hockey media got smaller.

- I live on Long island, have for years, and read the paper everyday. MLB does dominant the backpages however in season football gets its fair share. I agree again that all 3 local NHL teams get = representation (1 article a day in season). The Rangers do however usually get more space than the Isles and Devs (The devs are usually hidden in the middle of the paper somewhere).

Aside from the Westchester Gannett and the Bergen Record the
Islander-Ranger-Devil coverage is basically dead even. With Diamos, Dellapina, Brooks, Staple on the Rangers, Caldwell, Stephenson, Everson on the Devils and Hahn, Botte, Grossman, Ron Dicker on the Isles. The days of Jay Greenberg, Mike Viccaro, Sherry Ross appeareances are few and far between with Filip Bondy sidebars that are mostly Rangers. Islander road coverage in the Times and News had downgraded to some A.P that even the Rangers receive on occasion in the Post and Times. Once in a blue moon Shawn Powell or another Newsday extra will come along for some commentary that clearly reflects lack of hockey knowledge.

- Your subway series comparison doesnt make sense because I am not advocating a Rangers - Islanders conference finals or anything like that. I am just stating that the Rangers need to be good for the NHL to get its max exposure. You would definately agree that the Yankees are the biggest MLB franchise wouldnt you?

Biggest MLB/NY/World-Wide Franchise (not counting Manchester-United) and it kills hockey's coverage in this market like no other place in the NHL and that's the problem hockey cannot fix here no matter what. Daily News (Peter Botte) will cover a Yankee playoff game and let the A.P do the Islanders home opener, that's how far things have fallen.

Whichever way you want to cut it NY is one of the biggest markets in the NHL. It being sucessful is good for the NHL. NY also happens to be the center of the sports universe. Any league would love to have the NY market thriving. I am not saying the Rangers need to win the SC (and I never did). I am simply saying the NHL is a different place when Rangers are in the playoffs. And more than ever the NHL needs all the exposure it can get. The sports universe starts in NY with all sports.

Unfortunately when your talking about the seventh team in a market it simply does not apply for a sport with such limited public appeal in an oversaturated sports market. Big market? Yes. Big hockey market, No ? This is like saying MLS soccer starts with the Metrostars, our market is too big for that and that's hockey's problem and it's not going away.

The Rangers made the 97 conference finals, they played another series with New Jersey and won. The NHL and the media had Manhattan-Philadelphia, Colorado-Detroit as the league conference finals. The league was not a different place with New York nor was the exposure there. That series had Gretzky, Messier, Lindros, Leetch, LeClaire.

The lesson of 94 is that great hockey sells and the Rangers, Devils and a team from Canada (very important because of their media) gave hockey a fantastic show. A Ranger sweep against Vancouver has as much national impact as Detroit ending it's 54-year drought against Washington everywhere but here.

 

[NYIsles1*]

Thats all great but nobody in any other state is going to get as much press time as a big player in NY.

That's the problem right there, we have about twenty stars ahead
of Crosby here. No media person is going to give Crosby press time over a baseball player or Manning, Marbury, Kidd to say nothing of out of market stars like Woods, Wie, Sorenstam. Sidney Crosby is not David Beckham who can draw 50,000 to Giants Stadium on a Tuesday with no media hype beforehand.

MSG had a streak (both Rangers and Knicks) of sellouts that spanned almost a decade. That is an astonishing feat in this day and age in any sport other than football. It is almost the equivalent of the Yankees and Red Sox pre selling every single seat in the stadium.

The Knicks sellout streak ended a few years ago, the last two years they had about 12,000 season tickets. What James Dolan/Charles Wang announce as attendance for hockey is far different than what's in the seats or available at the boxoffice. I go to Msg for games and speak with the ticket people myself. All three local owners announce sellouts that clearly are not even close. On weeknights the seats can not be given away against some teams at those prices at Msg and the place looks like the Coliseum and Meadowlands. Why do you think Richter night had to be on a Wednesday night against Minnesota?

This is not Philadelphia, Montreal, Toronto, Colorado, Columbus or Minnesota in terms of attendance. The Rangers were like this in the seventies and the Isles in the eighties.

Do you guys really see Crosby leading a franchise like the Predators into the limelight as the poster child of the NHL? Yeah that would get as much play as Crosby starring on Broadway every night..

I don't know. All I do know is in Nashville the lockout ending was on the back pages and treated more importantly than it was here.

On Edit: BTW who is Lebron rumored to go to in a few years when he is a Free Agent because in Cleveland he just isnt getting the exposure he is looking for? I am a Net fan and I absolutely dread the idea of Lebron being in NY but once again it would bring more light to the NBA so it is good for everybody. Just as long as the Nets still have VC and beat them every chance they get.

The Nets get far more backpages than all three hockey teams combined and are headed into the NY Market. Fred Kerber and Marc Berman (former Islander Post beatwriter and season ticket holder) double the daily hockey coverge, even now they provide Summer-league and free agent updates.

Respectfully, If there is a final point in this one it's all yours...CHEERS

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

I hope he goes to either NJ NYR or NYI. With those teams playing each other so much in the new NHL revenues within that division would go up a ton with a big rivalry.

 

[Aldous Snow]

Respectfully, If there is a final point in this one it's all yours...CHEERS

Cheers as well, I think we are going to the same place from different directions. I agree that there is no way Hockey will ever get the back pages in NY before the winter however I do think it has the potential to be as big (if not bigger) than Basketball in the Spring as the Rangers can get better than the Knicks very quickly. Its funny because I see the NBA being like the NHL 3 or 4 years ago. They lost their superstar (MJ) around the same time period of Gretz, and their game has become a lot of hacking and banging instead of creativity and scoring. The NHL has corrected their problem (hopefully) and can gain serious ground on the NBA while they ignore the fact that their game has gone downhill.