GDT: Golden Knights @ Flames, 7:00 MT SNET-W

[Anglesmith]

The problem is I feel as though I have heard this nearing a dozen times this season.

Yeah, you remarked something similar earlier in the thread, but I don't really know why you're saying that. This is a once-a-season kind of game.

The fact that we didn't capitalize on chances as much as we should is certainly a common theme for the season, but turning a win into a loss in the final couple minutes of the game? That never happens, especially considering everyone's favourite statistic on this team regarding leading after 40.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Yeah, you remarked something similar earlier in the thread, but I don't really know why you're saying that. This is a once-a-season kind of game.

The fact that we didn't capitalize on chances as much as we should is certainly a common theme for the season, but turning a win into a loss in the final couple minutes of the game? That never happens, especially considering everyone's favourite statistic on this team regarding leading after 40.

I'm not specifically talking about losing in the final minutes of a game. I am talking about the tendency to surrender leads in winnable games, and the way in which we surrender those leads.

 

[Anglesmith]

I am sure this "bad luck" thing has happened several times already this season....and you know what they say about luck...

You can shake your head at the overreaction but one can shake their head at the excuses people made for this team...are we still in pre-season?

How dare people try to be realistic and non-emotional regarding a team that is a win away from being 2nd in the division! Disgrace!

If I was a real fan, I'd trash the team in every GDT at every opportunity unless they are leading the entire NHL. Because that helps me sleep at night and gives me a sense of importance that I can carry around with me everywhere I go.

 

[Anglesmith]

I'm not specifically talking about losing in the final minutes of a game. I am talking about the tendency to surrender leads in winnable games, and the way in which we surrender those leads.

True, but this wasn't a script we'd really seen before. This particular game was a step in the right direction, I think.

We have had tons of games in the middle of this season where we've gone into a defensive shell in the third and just been absolutely bombarded, on our heels, not even capable of making a single breakout pass. This was a refreshing change. We had complete control throughout the third. We managed to establish the cycle to kill time, we managed to get a few scoring chances. We drew a penalty and didn't take any. It was about as close to suffocation of the Knights as you're going to get.

To me, that's the systematic part, and the part that has future implications. The fluky goal against to tie it probably won't happen again this season, so no reason to worry about it going forward.

I know that people want to tie this into some kind of bigger picture narrative, but I'm just trying to be realistic. Does that play have anything to do with mental toughness? Frolik returns from a month off with a jaw guard strapped over his face and makes a bad pass back to Brodie, who gets handcuffed, and Smith isn't ready for it. Is that a mental toughness thing? Or is it just a mistake? Then you watch the re-start, and there's a lucky bounce for Vegas, they make a good play, Marchessault makes a good move to give himself space, and makes a good shot. Is that mental toughness? Meanwhile, you have the entire third period where the Flames showed very good mental toughness. Which is more indicative of what this team can do?

Right now, pretty much every facet of the Flames' game is firing on all cylinders except for finishing breakaways and scoring on the PP. There are far worse positions to be in (combining where we are in the standings). Of course there are things you could worry about, if you nitpick, but you'll save yourself a lot of grief if you just take things as they are.

 

[Tkachuky]

Though one. Could have been sitting in second in the Pacific. Obviously it wasn't the last game of the season, but would have been nice to win and claim 2nd for the night.

Need to regroup and win against Tampa. Will be a very tight race that will probably come down to the last game of the season.

 

[Mobiandi]

We just can't seem to get out of our own way at home. If this team actually had a decent home record, we'd be in contention for the division title.

The most frustrating part of this all is that we've followed up a 7 game winning streak with a 5 game losing streak. At least the loser point is a thing

 

[Dack]

I think we're a really rough first round draw for any team similar to Nashville last year. The issue is we're now one point out of a playoff spot. They really need to quit droppng games like this.

Powerplay is 1/19 on this losing streak.

 

[The Gnome]

wow, literally the worst hockey fail I've seen all year. This team is an embarrassment. With all the talent we have, our work ethic to finish off games is a joke. I'm sick of having a team of a bunch of soft and complacent players. And FFS, just dump the PP scheme already, literally try anything else and you're guaranteed to see some improvement. I'm not happy with this coaching staff at all, we have the talent to compete, but we don't actually compete for a full 60 minutes. how you allow two goals within 10 seconds of each other in the last 2 minutes of the game is beyond me.

 

[Rangediddy]

Tough to see it end that way. I'm in a blaming mood so, my ranking, from most to least responsible for last night's loss:

1)Brodie - Should have had his stick on the ice and took the pass or put it in the corner.
2)Gully - Where's the timeout!? Did he really keep that group on the ice after the tying goal!?
3)Frolik - Stupid play. Not Russell-scoring-on-his-own-net bad, but still bad.
4)Smith - I have a feeling he's got it in the D-men's heads that if the puck is close to him, he wants to play it. Possibly why Brodie didn't take the pass.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

@AS, you are always the voice of reason which I appreciate, but ultimately in the end it comes down to results. The common trend with this team all season is that they are mentally fragile and the recent stretch they are on only backs that up. They definitely did many good things last night but then they choked when it mattered. And I don’t want to hear about Frolik not playing for a month, if he’s playing he should be ready to go and if he’s not, he shouldn't be playing. Good teams step on opponents throat and I hate that the saying “that’s the most the Flame ending to a game” is true. This team lacks killer instinct and I don’t think anyone can dispute that.

 

[viper0220]

Our top line is just as good as any top line in the league, go away.

The problem with the top line, is if Johnny is not doing anything the top line does not go anywhere, the problem with Monahan is that he can't drive the offence all by myself(which is ok because not many players can but than you need another player other than Johnny on that line to drive the offence somewhat and Ferland can't do that.) The problem is that the top line has to always be doing something because there will be times when the Flames lines #2, #3, and #4 goes cold.

I don't think blowing our load on Hamonic at that price was good, the D was not the problem, when Michael Stone came over from the Coyotes, he had stabilized the D. The assets that were used on Hamonic, should have been used to acquire a top 6 Forward(preferably a RW) and a way to keep Deryk Engelland should have been made because I don't think the Hamonic trade has made us any better defensively, we are at 0 in the goal +/- category.

For now hopefully no big trades are made(unless it is a highway robbery for us) before any trades are made, a coaching change should take(this includes firing of all the coaches including the assistants) because I think a good coach can get more, way more out of this team.

As for the season, they need to get back to the 7 game winning streak, go back to the things that made them good on the winning streak, the PP really needs to come to life, making the playoffs is becoming harder with 4-5 teams fighting for 2-3 playoff spots, you can't afford to have many nights off.

 

[Anglesmith]

@AS, you are always the voice of reason which I appreciate, but ultimately in the end it comes down to results. The common trend with this team all season is that they are mentally fragile and the recent stretch they are on only backs that up. They definitely did many good things last night but then they choked when it mattered. And I don’t want to hear about Frolik not playing for a month, if he’s playing he should be ready to go and if he’s not, he shouldn't be playing. Good teams step on opponents throat and I hate that the saying “that’s the most the Flame ending to a game” is true. This team lacks killer instinct and I don’t think anyone can dispute that.

They didn't really choke, though. That's all I'm saying. There was no point where they stopped playing well and started panicking. They just had a bizarre string of plays happen that led to their undoing. The problem was being in that situation in the first place.

Using terms like "choking" and "fragile" is, in this case, creating a narrative that just doesn't really fit with what happened in the game, in my opinion. The common trends that are concerning and are actually leading to being lower than we could be in the standings are still present, though. It's failure on PPs and on breakaways/odd-man rushes. It's what holds teams in games against us that they shouldn't be in. The fact of the matter is if every game involves trying to hold a one goal lead for more than a full period, a good portion of those games are going to become tied. I just don't know if it's an instinct thing with the team or simply a lack of execution. I certainly wouldn't say that they didn't go for more goals in the third period last night. They had quite a few good chances and were playing great hockey.

 

[Tkachuky]

The biggest issue is the Powerplay. Talk about having a negative effect on the team. In fact I think we are so bad we give the other teams momentum killing penalties.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Giving up 3 goals in the final 1:40 minute of a game would qualify as going into a dictionary for the definition of choking. I couldn’t think of a better example. This is a results based and business and always will be, the coach constantly spins off “the process” as an excuse and that’s where we sit on the different sides of the fence.

 

[Tkachuky]

Giving up 3 goals in the final 1:40 minute of a game would qualify as going into a dictionary for the definition of choking. I couldn’t think of a better example. This is a results based and business and always will be, the coach constantly spins off “the process” as an excuse and that’s where we sit on the different sides of the fence.

To be fair, the Frolik pass/Brodie not reacting cannot be blamed on the coach/systems. As for the second goal.... team was asleep ans stunned by previous goal. Guess Gulutzan could have called a time out, but you would think the players on the ice at 2-2 would be able to not get scored on in 10 seconds after conceding. The third goal is empty net so doesn't really matter.

 

[The Gnome]

The PP insanity has to stop. I cannot believe Brian Burke is not calling for someone's head. I know he's given the reigns to Tre, but enough is enough. A change has to be made or this season is over. Though I've really liked Hamonic lately, the trade still boogles my mind...We bring in Stone and he rounds out our top 4 nicely. We overpay for Hamonic with some of our best futures and also resign Stone, all this while not addressing our biggest need at RW. Not a happy fan right now, our coaching is to the point of absurd, our GM has done nothing to address our biggest need, we have a lot of mentally fragile players. If you blow a 1st and two 2nds you better damn well have quality coaching, no glaring roster holes, and come out near the top of your division.

I'm done with GG, I have zero faith in him, the fact he has let our PP get to this point is pure insanity. It is literally costing us games in one of the tightest PO races in recent memory.

 

[Anglesmith]

Giving up 3 goals in the final 1:40 minute of a game would qualify as going into a dictionary for the definition of choking. I couldn’t think of a better example. This is a results based and business and always will be, the coach constantly spins off “the process” as an excuse and that’s where we sit on the different sides of the fence.

True, but I just don't see the outcome of an individual game in January to be a significant "result" in the grand scheme of things. Our place in the standings at the end of the year is a significant result. Our performance in the playoffs is a result. In any results-oriented business, there are small results that don't matter in light of larger results.

So, as a fan, what I'm concerned about isn't what happens in individual games necessarily (except Edmonton games because f*** Edmonton), but more importantly what its bearing is on the more important results to come. A loss is a loss is a loss, of course, but some losses give the impression that more losses will follow, and others losses give a much more positive outlook. I'd put last night's game in the latter category. They played well against the top team in the league, and likely if they play that game over 10 times, they win 9 of them.

 

[The Gnome]

True, but I just don't see the outcome of an individual game in January to be a significant "result" in the grand scheme of things. Our place in the standings at the end of the year is a significant result. Our performance in the playoffs is a result. In any results-oriented business, there are small results that don't matter in light of larger results.

So, as a fan, what I'm concerned about isn't what happens in individual games necessarily (except Edmonton games because **** Edmonton), but more importantly what its bearing is on the more important results to come. A loss is a loss is a loss, of course, but some losses give the impression that more losses will follow, and others losses give a much more positive outlook. I'd put last night's game in the latter category. They played well against the top team in the league, and likely if they play that game over 10 times, they win 9 of them.

It's true, that's what makes me want to put my head through the friggin computer screen today. They should've won, it was really solid team game with a few mishaps from individuals that the best team in the league capitalized on. If anything this game should make fans more positive, but it just stings right now. I still think the coaches need to go if they cannot fix the PP.

Another plus, Brouwer still looked decent last night...not 4.5 decent, but at least an effective bottom 6 player.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

I think that's part of the frustration we're all feeling as fans on a day like today. There have been a lot of games that we should have won this season, but one stupid breakdown (usually late) ends up costing us the game. How many late goals have gone in off a Flames player with few minutes remaining? Or just resulting from stupid play? It feels like a lot - at least, more than normal.

 

[Anglesmith]

I think that's part of the frustration we're all feeling as fans on a day like today. There have been a lot of games that we should have won this season, but one stupid breakdown (usually late) ends up costing us the game. How many late goals have gone in off a Flames player with few minutes remaining? Or just resulting from stupid play? It feels like a lot - at least, more than normal.

I think that's the price we pay for not extending leads. If we capitalize on a PP every now and then, our 1-goal leads become 2-goal leads. Then those bounces (which are bound to happen anyway) won't tie the game. And we're looking at a very different record and place in the standings.

 

[herashak]

This game pissed me off

 

[Rangediddy]

True, but I just don't see the outcome of an individual game in January to be a significant "result" in the grand scheme of things. Our place in the standings at the end of the year is a significant result. Our performance in the playoffs is a result. In any results-oriented business, there are small results that don't matter in light of larger results.

So, as a fan, what I'm concerned about isn't what happens in individual games necessarily (except Edmonton games because **** Edmonton), but more importantly what its bearing is on the more important results to come. A loss is a loss is a loss, of course, but some losses give the impression that more losses will follow, and others losses give a much more positive outlook. I'd put last night's game in the latter category. They played well against the top team in the league, and likely if they play that game over 10 times, they win 9 of them.

I agree with this to an extent, but Gulutzen not calling a timeout after a play like that is shocking. That ONE decision alone makes me doubt his ability to be our coach long term, then you throw in the PP struggling and it begins to be cause for worry.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I think that's part of the frustration we're all feeling as fans on a day like today. There have been a lot of games that we should have won this season, but one stupid breakdown (usually late) ends up costing us the game. How many late goals have gone in off a Flames player with few minutes remaining? Or just resulting from stupid play? It feels like a lot - at least, more than normal.

Exactly my feelings. I’m tired of hearing we’ve out chanced teams. It’s becoming a pattern that we’re losing games that we should have won. The lack of mental fortitude is what really concerns me. I guess as a fan for me, I’m just over all the excuses. This team needs more of a backbone.

Yes they played great last night but in the 1:30 minute they had a mental lapse and it cost them the game. That’s 5 games now in a row that they could have won and did not.

 

[CamPopplestone]

Some people get way too worked up about a game. Dear lord

 

[Ace Rimmer]

And some people don't get way too worked up about a game enough!