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GOAT goalscorer?

Thenameless

Thenameless

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Apr 29, 2014
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Sentinel said:
Gretzky, Esposito, Hull, and Ovechkin are better thAn Lemieux at scoring goals.
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No, they are most definitely not. I consider Gretzky and Lemieux to be the two best goal scorers of all time, with Lemieux slightly ahead. Both were fantastic playmakers first, which sometimes took away from their goal totals (especially Gretzky in his 160 assist year outright saying he was concentrating on more assists). But if these two only tried to score goals (in the same vein as both Hulls, Bossy, and Ovechkin concentrate on goal scoring), you're looking at peak goal totals of close to 100 per season.
 
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Sentinel

Sentinel

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Thenameless said:
No, they are most definitely not. I consider Gretzky and Lemieux to be the two best goal scorers of all time, with Lemieux slightly ahead. Both were fantastic playmakers first, which sometimes took away from their goal totals (especially Gretzky in his 160 assist year outright saying he was concentrating on more assists). But if these two only tried to score goals (in the same vein as both Hulls, Bossy, and Ovechkin concentrate on goal scoring), you're looking at peak goal totals of close to 100 per season.
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GOAT is not defined by "how many goals they would score, if they chose to." It's defined by "how many goals they actually scored." Peak season, consistency, playoffs, total career numbers: they all matter. Lemieux is #1 in only ONE parameter: playoff GPG. Others have many more.

So "what you consider" in this case is immaterial.
 

streitz

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Jul 22, 2018
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Sentinel said:
GOAT is not defined by "how many goals they would score, if they chose to." It's defined by "how many goals they actually scored." Peak season, consistency, playoffs, total career numbers: they all matter. Lemieux is #1 in only ONE parameter: playoff GPG. Others have many more.

So "what you consider" in this case is immaterial.
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Good to know Mike Gartner is better then Bossy and Hull SR
 
scott clam

scott clam

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I'd like to point out that when Lemieux retired for the first time he had scored more goals in less games than Mike Bossy. He had also recently just scored his 600th goal in only 719 games, just one game more than the fastest player to reach that plateau: take a wild guess who that was?
 
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streitz

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Jul 22, 2018
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Sentinel said:
Are you being deliberately obtuse or just dishonest?



Other than total career numbers, Gartner has no claim of any kind, and you know it.
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TheNameless just disproved all your claims.



But judging by your set of criteria Gartner would be better then Hull SR and Bossy since he has more goals then them. As you say 'what if's' aren't taken into account.
 
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Sentinel

Sentinel

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streitz said:
TheNameless just disproved all your claims.

But judging by your set of criteria Gartner would be better then Hull SR and Bossy since he has more goals then them. As you say 'what if's' aren't taken into account.
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What part of "THEY ALL MATTER" isn't clear? "ALL", get it?

Lemieux has ONE metric, where he is #1. Gartner is great... in ANOTHER ONE.
 
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streitz

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Jul 22, 2018
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Sentinel said:
What part of "THEY ALL MATTER" isn't clear? "ALL", get it?

Lemieux has ONE metric, where he is #1. Gartner is great... in ANOTHER ONE.
Click to expand...



I'm just using the same logic you have used. Lemieux has the best playoff gpg of all time. He has the 2nd best regular season gpg of all time(best before he came back from retirement). Frankly the only player who comes close is Hull Sr for the goat goal scorer.


You keep holding his injures against him, which are completely irrelevant to who is the best goal scorer. I don't care if he only lead the league in goals 3 times because he was injured alot, that literally has nothing to do with him being the GOAT goal scorer unless he was going with a tiny sample size like 350 goals in 390 games or something stupid like that where I'd listen to the argument you're making.



You keep saying what players DID matters, so by your own Logic Bossy's injury history and Hull Sr jumping to a league with dubious defensive talent clearly puts them below Mike Gartner who scored 708 goals and is sitting at 7th all time.
 
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FrozenJagrt

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Dec 16, 2009
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Seems some are arguing best while others are arguing greatest, while others still are giving players credit for stuff they didn't do.
 
Plural

Plural

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I always flip flop between Hull and Lemieux. I do have Gretzky and Ovechkin in the mix too, but I think Hull and Lemieux are the top-dogs for me. One is the "what actually happened" and the other is "what if combined with what actually happened". I don't know, it just always feels like Lemieux had the widest set of tools to score.
 
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scott clam

scott clam

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Plural said:
I always flip flop between Hull and Lemieux. I do have Gretzky and Ovechkin in the mix too, but I think Hull and Lemieux are the top-dogs for me. One is the "what actually happened" and the other is "what if combined with what actually happened". I don't know, it just always feels like Lemieux had the widest set of tools to score.
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More than any other player, Lemieux made it look easy.
 
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Plural

Plural

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scott clam said:
More than any other player, Lemieux made it look easy.
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Yeah, absolutely. It felt like he was always a threat to score. No matter the way, he had the capabilities.

I can understand someone going with Gretzky or Ovechkin or even Howe. But personally I feel Lemieux and Hull are the top 2. I could see Ovechkin getting there in no shorter than one season. If he manages to be among the top scorers this season, I think he has to be ranked among these two.
 

daver

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I am surprised the Rocket is not being mentioned in these recent posts.

Is there a general consensus on why he has no real claim to #1? Isn't he considered the best playoff goalscorer of all-time?
 
Plural

Plural

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Mar 10, 2011
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daver said:
I am surprised the Rocket is not being mentioned in these recent posts.

Is there a general consensus on why he has no real claim to #1? Isn't he considered the best playoff goalscorer of all-time?
Click to expand...

I kind of get the feeling that he's been running lower recently on the absolute best list. Personally, I'd rank him with Howe, Gretzky and Ovechkin. Lemieux and Hull are a notch above. It might be just me though.
 
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