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John Flyers Fan
Registered User
montreal said:
Bonk's value was nil. Montreal got him because they were willing to pay him, not because they gave up Garon.
montreal said:
Ahh that bites....here's hoping he comes to NA soon...
My top 5 (in terms of depth and potential)
NYR
St. Louis
Edmonton
Ottawa
Vancouver/Boston
I dont think Levenue (sp, coyotes org.) gets enough respect around here. He is a fiesty goalie and had a good career with Cornell.
St. Louis might be a bit homerish as Cash hasnt shown much and Shwartz is failing to produce in the WHL. But the Blues have depth and if they all reach their potential we have 2 starters with a potential franchise goalie plus a reliable backup.
NYR...Blackburn, Lundquist, Blackburn....oozes potential and depth.
Edmonton has JDD a very good goalie and then Dubynk right behind him.
Ottawa has Emery
and Thompson isnt half bad though I dont know much about him. Vancouver has good depth but I havent seen much of them play. Boston has Toivenen (Sp).
montreal
Go Habs Go
John Flyers Fan said:
That's just opinion. You stated fact that Garon was traded for a 3rd, he wasn't. If you feel Bonk's value is nil, and I'm sure many will agree, but that's not what the trade was.
John Flyers Fan
Registered User
montreal said:
The original trade was:
Ottawa traded Radek Bonk to Los Angeles for a 3rd round pick.
Los Angeles traded Radek Bonk and Cristobal Huet to Montreal for Mathieu Garon and a 3rd round pick.
Bonk's value was essentially worth a 3rd round pick.
Hilarious. In 3 posts a poster goes from saying that Bonk's value was nothing to saying that he was worth a 3rd rounder.
Talk about a quick change of opinion...
Talk about a quick change of opinion...
John Flyers Fan
Registered User
19bruins19 said:
How many other 2nd line centers are being traded for a 3rd round pick. Also if Bonk's value is a 3rd round pick it then also means that Garon's trade value was Cristobal Huet, which backs up my original opinion that goalies aren't worth much as trade bait.
Slats432
Registered User
19bruins19 said:
Not much? What exactly does that mean?
There's 9 rounds of picks. Obviously a 3rd rounder is in the top third in terms of value. 1st round picks are obviously quite worthwhile, and if you look at transactions in the past 3 years it's also obvious that 2nd round picks are valued quite highly as well. 3rd's are less valuable but not to the point where I'd say a 3rd rounder is not worth much. Late round picks aren't worth much.
...
hey john flyers fan,
i have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say. you claim that young goaltenders don't have much value, then say that bonk was worth essentially nothing before saying he is ONLY worth a third rounder. I just don't understand. Also a goaltenders worth and how they perform and are projected to be are totally different. This thread was opened to discuss goaltender prospect depth not your crazy cracked out opinion on how young goaltenders are a dime a dozen.
hey john flyers fan,
i have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say. you claim that young goaltenders don't have much value, then say that bonk was worth essentially nothing before saying he is ONLY worth a third rounder. I just don't understand. Also a goaltenders worth and how they perform and are projected to be are totally different. This thread was opened to discuss goaltender prospect depth not your crazy cracked out opinion on how young goaltenders are a dime a dozen.
John Flyers Fan
Registered User
soilwork2004 said:
I have two main points.
#1. Goalies are were very little in trades, as compared to other position players.
#2. If I was a GM, I'd never select a goalie in the top 5, and almost never in the top 10. Most years I'd refrain from selecting a goalie in round one.
Hmm, somebody posted on the Russia board that he was on the team. They must have posted last years.
montreal
Go Habs Go
montreal
Go Habs Go
BlueBleeder said:
All you have to do is look at his B-day. I'm also certain he's an '84. No 84's can play in the U-20's. 85's or later only.
John Flyers Fan said:
That isn't the test at all though. When does a young unproven anything get back a significant return? (I'm not even going to discuss all of the other trades quite correctly brought up here.)
If a player is highly thought of, he's got strong value, regardless of his position. If he's not playing well or not thought highly of, then he isn't worth much.
Is Jeff Hereema worth much? Rico Fata? Michael Henriech? They were all top ten picks. They all busted. Are you telling me that teams can get a lot for them but not for a good goalie prospect?
The problem with taking goalies high is that it takes a long time to develop one, and because you can only develop a few at a time. But even with the Rangers 'glut' of goalies, a logjam seems highly unlikely. Look at Ahonen, the Devils have stashed him in the AHL for years as quality depth. If they tried to trade him tomorrow, do you think they'd get some good offers? I sure do. And he hasn't even put up 'Jason Labarberra' numbers, to say nothing of Lundqvist or Montoya's accomplishments.
Again, bottom line, if there was no downside to taking BPA.
What I meant to say about 3rd rounders is that teams can throw them away, as they are not as important as first and second rounders (unless you are the leafs!).
Big McLargehuge
Fragile Traveler
I'll take Pittsburgh in a walk on this one.
Marc-Andre Fleury
Andy Chiodo
Bobby Geopfert
Tomas Duba
David Brown
Brandon Crawford-West
Mika Lehto
All except West have NHL talent or potential. Lehto and Duba will never get a chance to prove it in this organization though. Before the 2003 draft Duba was my pick for our goalie of the future, I'm very high on him.
Marc-Andre Fleury
Andy Chiodo
Bobby Geopfert
Tomas Duba
David Brown
Brandon Crawford-West
Mika Lehto
All except West have NHL talent or potential. Lehto and Duba will never get a chance to prove it in this organization though. Before the 2003 draft Duba was my pick for our goalie of the future, I'm very high on him.
John Flyers Fan
Registered User
Kubera55 said:
I'm telling you that comparable players you'd much more in return for a forward or defenseman than you would a goalie.
IMO if you offered the following players to all NHL teams:
Jeff Carter
Anthony Stewart
Maxime Ouellet
Al Montoya
Anton Babchuk
the players HF ranked 17-21
You would much more response and return for Carter, Stewart and Babchuk than the two goalies.
==========================================
IMO if the Devils offered Ahonen around to th other 29 teams, they'd be fourtunate to get a 2nd round pick in return.
Lionel Hutz
Registered User
John Flyers Fan said:
Is it that goalies have little value, or that teams only trade a goalie who is a spare part on their roster? So the buyer knows they can low-ball?
It may be part circumstance, if there was an example of a team trying to lure a team into trading a key goalie, the value would be higher.
Handsome B. Wonderful said:
Pittsburgh have one top notch prospect and the rest are hit and miss type of prospects, really not remarkable prospects at all. Chiodo hasnt done anything in the NHL or AHL, Goepfert is sitting out a year and is a long way away, Brown is a dark horse but only Red Line likes him a lot (Thoresen again?). Duba and Lehto as you say are very unlikely to figure at all. Crawford-West.. has he even played in the NCAA yet? An 8th round pick who could hardly be further away from the NHL.
New York has two goalies that were drafted top 10 plus the best Euro prospect goalie. Fleury is the best of the lot but they have three very good goalies. Then they have LaBarbera. He probably wont be much but you cant deny his AHL stats are outstanding and he's probably better than all the Pens goalies other than Fleury and closer to the NHL too.
The liklihood is that only 4 will be NHLers, the rest have the odds severely stacked against them. Those 4 are Fleury, Blackburn, Montoya, Lundqvist and Rangers have 3.
I just dont see the rationale and it certainly isnt a walk. Great stud goalie, nice depth of interesting prospects but its not as good as the Rangers.
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Even without him, Montoya and Lundqvist is as strong a 1-2 punch as there is.DoobieDoobieDo said:
John Flyers Fan
Registered User
Lionel Hutz said:
The thing is that each team only needs one goalie, and goalies have progressed so far over the last 20 years, that for the most part each team has good goaltending.
The difference between the top and bottom goalies has shrunk greatly IMO.
In 1984
Best goalie >>>>>>>> 20th best goalie in the NHL
Now
Best goalie >>> 20th best goalie in the NHL
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