This is completely unfair. carter333167 started a thread about two areas of legitimate concern. I completely agree with him that goaltending and coaching are problems that need to be addressed. This is a discussion board after all, and I, for one, would like to continue discussing the St. Louis Blues. I am sure the OP is just as elated as the rest of us over yesterday's big trade, but there is still work to be done going forward. I was called "whiny" in another thread for continuing to voice my dislike of the Perron signing. We made a great move yesterday. Everybody is happy about it. It does not mean that fans that continue to discuss ways to continue improving the team are somehow disloyal or ungrateful, and do not deserved to be labelled as "whiners" or "complainers".
Goaltending and Coaching: Last two areas to address
- Thread starter carter333167
- Start date
GoldenSeal
Believe In The Note
The one thing that concerns me is that every backup we have had, has been able to steal the job from Jake Allen, from Elliott to Hutton. Originally I had major issues with this, but to have that kind of competition has only given us depth in that position. We have Husso coming up and Chad Johnson is really much as streaky as Jake, so if history stays consistent and our scoring has greatly improved and Husso musters out to be the goalie we feel he will be, we should be good.
Coaching needs an overhaul and Mike Yeo needs to be put on notice. If a better Head Coach is available, we should be talking to them. Truth be known, I liked alot of what Yeo was trying to do last year but feel that at many times in the season he got outcoached and to be fair, the roster wasn't always where it needed to be.
Coaching needs an overhaul and Mike Yeo needs to be put on notice. If a better Head Coach is available, we should be talking to them. Truth be known, I liked alot of what Yeo was trying to do last year but feel that at many times in the season he got outcoached and to be fair, the roster wasn't always where it needed to be.
As far as the goaltending situation goes, we really just need a guy who has strong positioning, can limit rebounds and can be consistent between the pipes. We don't need a top 5 or even top 10 goalie. What's funny is that before Allen was in the NHL, he was known for all these things, and good puck movement as well. Allen just needs to get back to his roots in terms of what got him to the NHL.
It is worrying how weak his mental strength appears to be, though. But we can only speculate about that sort of thing. Who knows, he could have been battling some personal issues throughout the year.
I will say that it's tough on ANY goalie when your team isn't scoring, because every goal against is a big one. The confidence between the skaters and the goaltender is mutual. When the goalie isn't playing well, the offense feels more pressure to score, and the defense feels more pressure to prevent shots. When the offense isn't scoring and the defense is struggling, the goalie feels more pressure to make saves, even routine saves. I can't speak from experience, but I can only assume you're looser between the pipes when you have a lead or when your offense is doing well.
I'm not saying that Allen was bad because the rest of the team was, I'm just saying his bad play was amplified by it. Let's see how Allen does with a rejuvenated offense. The additions of Fabbri, Perron, O'Reilly, Bozak, and Thomas are going to be nice.
It is worrying how weak his mental strength appears to be, though. But we can only speculate about that sort of thing. Who knows, he could have been battling some personal issues throughout the year.
I will say that it's tough on ANY goalie when your team isn't scoring, because every goal against is a big one. The confidence between the skaters and the goaltender is mutual. When the goalie isn't playing well, the offense feels more pressure to score, and the defense feels more pressure to prevent shots. When the offense isn't scoring and the defense is struggling, the goalie feels more pressure to make saves, even routine saves. I can't speak from experience, but I can only assume you're looser between the pipes when you have a lead or when your offense is doing well.
I'm not saying that Allen was bad because the rest of the team was, I'm just saying his bad play was amplified by it. Let's see how Allen does with a rejuvenated offense. The additions of Fabbri, Perron, O'Reilly, Bozak, and Thomas are going to be nice.
Another area of concern for me is the 4th line. I know Brodz and Upshall were getting long in the tooth, but I think we are dearly going to miss those guys. We went from one of the best 4th lines in the league two seasons ago, to Sosh-Barbs-Jaskin/Sundqvist. I look at that group and I am not overwhelmed.
I liked Dunn better on the first unit. Far more creative than Petro or Parayko. I think you can only have one of those two on the powerplay on the ice at a time. Neither one of them can get their shot down.
CaliforniaBlues310
Registered User
I don’t mind Petro and Dunn on the same unit, but I’d just rather them each be PPQB’s. I’d also be making Parayko work very hard on getting his one-timer down from the slot. That’s why he’d be on that unit. Have him opposite of Tarasenko like Tampa does with Stamkos/Kucherov.
I got married the other day. The next day, my bride looks over to me and says “darling, are you happy?” I say “well I just married you and you’re great and all, but I’m not a billionaire yet so there are more important things to do so I’m canceling the honeymoon.” I don’t understand why she’s mad at me, it’s a totally true statement!
For real though, no, it’s not crazy to have more questions about the team. But it’s pretty clear some people only know how to do that through the lens of “who gets the ax next?” Can’t even go 12 hours of relishing the biggest trade for our franchise since Tkachuk before going for the ole “yeah but btw I still hate so many things about this team.” It just strikes me as ungrateful and whiny. Once again, as if the only way you can talk about the team is by complaining about it.
The Note in MI
Bow to the pyramid
We will have a ton more options on the PP and honestly probably too many options to make it fit without leaving someone out.
RHS: Bozak Thomas Parayko Pietrangelo Perron
LHS: ROR Schenn Schwartz Tarasenko Dunn Fabbri Steen
Assuming umbrella formation with a single pointman. Watching highlights, and from our own guys, our candidates for each position:
Slot: ROR, Schwartz, Schenn, Bozak, Perron
Right side: Tarasenko, Schenn, ROR
Left side: Thomas, Bozak, Parayko, Pietrangelo, Perron
Point: Dunn, Parayko, Pietrangelo
Down low: ROR, Schwartz, Schenn, Bozak, Thomas, Perron
PP1
QB Dunn
Slot Schenn
Low Schwartz
LW Parayko
RW Tarasenko
PP2
QB Pietrangelo
Slot ROR
Low Thomas
LW Bozak
RW Fabbri
Leaves Steen and Perron out, there is a lot of room for adjustment as well. This feels balanced fairly well. One RHS on each line. IMO most versatile spot is LW on PP1 which could be Parayko, Pietrangelo, Thomas or Bozak. Have one timers setup each side. The slot and down low guys are muckers and grinders for loose pucks and can one time it. QB are the two best at puck moving. Wild cards here being Thomas and Fabbri.
RHS: Bozak Thomas Parayko Pietrangelo Perron
LHS: ROR Schenn Schwartz Tarasenko Dunn Fabbri Steen
Assuming umbrella formation with a single pointman. Watching highlights, and from our own guys, our candidates for each position:
Slot: ROR, Schwartz, Schenn, Bozak, Perron
Right side: Tarasenko, Schenn, ROR
Left side: Thomas, Bozak, Parayko, Pietrangelo, Perron
Point: Dunn, Parayko, Pietrangelo
Down low: ROR, Schwartz, Schenn, Bozak, Thomas, Perron
PP1
QB Dunn
Slot Schenn
Low Schwartz
LW Parayko
RW Tarasenko
PP2
QB Pietrangelo
Slot ROR
Low Thomas
LW Bozak
RW Fabbri
Leaves Steen and Perron out, there is a lot of room for adjustment as well. This feels balanced fairly well. One RHS on each line. IMO most versatile spot is LW on PP1 which could be Parayko, Pietrangelo, Thomas or Bozak. Have one timers setup each side. The slot and down low guys are muckers and grinders for loose pucks and can one time it. QB are the two best at puck moving. Wild cards here being Thomas and Fabbri.
Majorityof1
Registered User
What a coincidence, I got married the other day too. We went on our honeymoon and the resort accidentally double booked our room, so they gave us an upgraded luxury suite. To celebrate we ordered an expensive bottle of champagne from room service. Turns out it was actually a bottle of warm piss. My wife asked me, "Honey, how can you drink warm piss? and why are you trying to make me drink it?". So after grimacing from the last sip, I said "Well, the resort just comped us this very nice room. I didn't want to seem ungrateful by complaining about the bottle of urine." She went to stay with her mother and I have no idea why. I was just being polite.
For real though, Armstrong is not our wife. This is not an intimate conversation. We do not have to hold back our thoughts or restrain them to positive things only. Also you are creating a straw man because nobody said anybody needed to be fired. Carter only asked for thoughts on the two remaining issues, which are legitimate issues. And a few people have said that the moves we made can cover any deficiencies.
Edit: What's a Morty approved time frame where we no longer have to walk on eggshells and can discuss honest but critical things about the team? 12 hours isn't enough. 12 days? 12 weeks? 12 months? 12 years?
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The Note in MI
Bow to the pyramid
Vincenzo Arelliti
He Can't Play Center
I would add Steen to net-front. He’s very good there, imo. As for the lineup, I think we will tinker often with the centers, and pretty much have a rotation between Bozak, O’Reilly, and Thomas mixing and matching with wing pairs - depending on what tempo we want, and the current state of the game.
Schwartz Schenn Kyrou
Fabbri Bozak Tarasenko
Steen O’Reilly Perron
Soshnikov Thomas Barbashev
PP1
Net-front: Steen
Slot: O’Reilly
Right Wall: Tarasenko
Left Wall: Parayko
Point: Dunn
PP2:
Net-front: Perron
Slot: Schenn
Right Wall: Schwartz/Fabbri
Left Wall: Kyrou/Thomas
Point: Pietrangelo
I think Yeo will surprise a lot people with this type of talent and new speed. He’s a good coach, and his style of defense should play a lot nicer with a quicker transition offense now that we have the forwards to execute it.
Allen is a big question mark, but I imagine he will be remarkably better this year - though still perhaps not good enough when it comes down to it. I’m optimistic, though.
If this year isn’t our year, next year will be.
The Note in MI
Bow to the pyramid
Majorityof1
Registered User
The hockey and broadway musical crowd don't usually overlap. Rent is a good one though.
For everyone else, it's how you measure a year in the life
Goaltending is the 800 lb. gorilla in the room. You can only pretend everything is ok for so long.
EastonBlues22
Registered User
It would be if he had said five hundred twenty-five thousand six hundred minutes.The hockey and broadway musical crowd don't usually overlap. Rent is a good one though.
For everyone else, it's how you measure a year in the life
Five thousand six hundred twenty five minutes is a whole lot less.
mk80
Registered User
- Jul 30, 2012
- 8,009
- 8,534
Jake is clearly our guy going forward, unless something huge comes up I think he is a Blue until Husso comes along in about a year. We have now constructed our roster to outscore Jake's cold streaks which was a major problem last year where we had to try winning every game 1-0 or 2-1 and then Jake hit his cold streak on top of that. I would like to believe he'll be better because I certainly am not going to hope he fails.
As for Yeo, he is not an "elite" coach by any means, and I think we have made some adjustments to our assistant coaches this summer that should help. I think as long as Yeo has his hands off the PK which is historically his worst aspect on every team he has coached we'll be fine.
As for Yeo, he is not an "elite" coach by any means, and I think we have made some adjustments to our assistant coaches this summer that should help. I think as long as Yeo has his hands off the PK which is historically his worst aspect on every team he has coached we'll be fine.
Majorityof1
Registered User
It would be if he had said five hundred twenty-five thousand six hundred minutes.
Five thousand six hundred twenty five minutes is a whole lot less.
Yes, that's true. I didn't double check and assumed he got the #s right. Or maybe there is another quote with whatever he said and I am way off.
The Note in MI
Bow to the pyramid
No I’m special and didn’t get the whole thing. Don’t mind me. I’ll head Back to my corner
Girth Butcher
Registered User
I don't think bringing up either the PP or Goaltending is complaining or being unappreciative of the work the Blues have done.
I think is is fair to move along to other areas of the Blues stats from last season that need improvement.
If our PP isn't better next year, with the talent we can roll out there, I'd say that would be a cause for concern. It should, at a minimum, be in the top 1/3 with our talent and if we expect to be in playoffs.
If Jake has a steady, not necessarily spectacular, season, I think we'd all be happy. I'm not expecting him to be a miracle worker, just be steady and give the team a chance to win. Be good positional, Stand up, be square to the shooter, hold the post, don't flail, and don't give up any back breakers, steal a game once in awhile. Again, with our Defense and proclivity to limit shots against, we should be at least in Top 1/2.
If we aren't, I think it's fair that these two area should be DA's Top Priority to fix if we expect to reach the SCF.
I'm thrilled with the moves DA made yesterday, and I think Bozek and ROR will have a huge impact, but if these two areas don't improve, the whippings will be justified. I'm optimistic that both areas will be vastly improved, but the stats don't lie.
I think is is fair to move along to other areas of the Blues stats from last season that need improvement.
If our PP isn't better next year, with the talent we can roll out there, I'd say that would be a cause for concern. It should, at a minimum, be in the top 1/3 with our talent and if we expect to be in playoffs.
If Jake has a steady, not necessarily spectacular, season, I think we'd all be happy. I'm not expecting him to be a miracle worker, just be steady and give the team a chance to win. Be good positional, Stand up, be square to the shooter, hold the post, don't flail, and don't give up any back breakers, steal a game once in awhile. Again, with our Defense and proclivity to limit shots against, we should be at least in Top 1/2.
If we aren't, I think it's fair that these two area should be DA's Top Priority to fix if we expect to reach the SCF.
I'm thrilled with the moves DA made yesterday, and I think Bozek and ROR will have a huge impact, but if these two areas don't improve, the whippings will be justified. I'm optimistic that both areas will be vastly improved, but the stats don't lie.
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I actually think this is very likely to happen lol.
Look at his history, he’s had some weak years but also some very good years.
He actually reminds me a lot of Carter Hutton. I think it’ll be essentially the same scenario.
Allen and Yeo get one more shot. If they suck, they’re easily gone. And the rest of our team can stay intact. So I’m not too worried.
CaliforniaBlues310
Registered User
I agree on all counts. Allen I think will be good this year, but he is a guy we could trade if needed. There’s teams with way worse situations than us. Also, with Yeo, if we don’t make it past a round, get rid of him and bring Bannister up. I’m a big fan of his and see him as our next coach.
Majorityof1
Registered User
Another potential issue is that we lost our entire penalty kill from last year . 6 of our top 7 players in total PK TOI from last year are gone. The only one remaining is Steen at 3rd. Brodziak (1). Sobotka(2),Upshall (4), Stastny(5), believe it or not Paajarvi (6) and Berglund (7) are gone. Schenn, Sundqvist and Schwartz got about 40ish minutes. But that doesn't compare with the 142 Brodziak had, which dwarved anyone else. ROR was good on the PK, so that's one. I would prefer not to run Schwartz, Schenn and RoR out on the PK. I don't think Sundqvist will be dressed much. Someone who hasn't done it much will need to step up. I'd say Soshnikov, Barbashev, ROR and Steen, with Schwartz Schenn as the lesser used 3rd pair, but we shall see.
Its a minor concern but one I found interesting that kind of was ignored in the joy of getting ROR.
Its a minor concern but one I found interesting that kind of was ignored in the joy of getting ROR.
carter333167
Registered User
- Apr 24, 2013
- 6,958
- 3,120
First of all, I'm very happy with the moves yesterday. I was simply pointing out that DA and BA have eliminated the chicken and the egg debate we often had last year. We have an excellent forward group with great kids ready to compete with the vets. We also have a great D-Corp.
As for the goaltending, night in and night out it is the most important position on the ice....just thought it would be logical to discuss it. I hope that Husso gets some NHL starts b/c I believe that, even when Allen plays well, he still plays a frenetic style. Husso plays a very quiet. more predictable style and I think that tends to settle the D-Men and help them play better in the transition game. Husso also plays taller in the net which should help immensely against a team like Nashville and all of their point shots.
Yeo has been given quite an opportunity. Good job DA and BA.
As for the goaltending, night in and night out it is the most important position on the ice....just thought it would be logical to discuss it. I hope that Husso gets some NHL starts b/c I believe that, even when Allen plays well, he still plays a frenetic style. Husso plays a very quiet. more predictable style and I think that tends to settle the D-Men and help them play better in the transition game. Husso also plays taller in the net which should help immensely against a team like Nashville and all of their point shots.
Yeo has been given quite an opportunity. Good job DA and BA.
CaliforniaBlues310
Registered User
I think you’ll see these 4 pairs splitting up the PK time, mainly by who’s more fresh when the time comes.
Schwartz-O’Reilly
Steen-Perron
Thomas-Soshnikov
Barbashev-Jaskin
We should score a fair share of SHG’s this year..
