Doctor No
Registered User
I'm finally getting caught up on my game logs (with a now-15 week old, I've simultaneously got lots of time and no time). 1969-70 game logs are on the site now; a few minor discrepancies with what the NHL had but nothing super significant.
1968-69 was always much worse - I had put together about ten pages detailing my case originally, where twenty different goaltenders had GP/W-L-T combinations different than what I had researched. I'm happy to report that the new published totals by the league have resolved 13 of these 20 situations (their new totals match my research).
That leaves seven goaltenders across three teams (NY Rangers, Oakland, Toronto).
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New York Rangers - I have Simmons at 1-1-1, the NHL has Simmons at 1-2-1 (I also have Giacomin at 38-24-7, the NHL has him at 38-23-7). Looking at the league's game logs, the difference is the March 1st game against Boston.
NY Times: "Don Simmons…had replaced Giacomin after Esposito's score." Esposito's goal at 33:41 was sixth Boston goal in 8-5 win; therefore, loss goes to Giacomin. Boston Globe (Tom Fitzgerald): "Espo accomplished this objective at 13:41 in the second period, making a strong move for a close-up smash by Ed Giacomin after a pass out from Ken Hodge." "After Esposito's goal, coach Francis removed Giacomin from the N.Y. net and replaced him with Don Simmons."
The NHL's revised box summary here:
https://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/nyr-vs-bos/1969/03/01/1968020372#game=1968020372,game_state=final
Matches the times I've found for Giacomin (33:41) and Simmons - and the Giacomin time exactly matches the time of Esposito's goal (the sixth goal), but they give the loss to Simmons in his totals. I believe that the league is in error still.
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Oakland - I have Smith at 22-20-7 and Worthy at 4-8-2. NHL has Smith at 21-21-7 and Worthy at 4-7-2. Adding in Hodge's 3-8-2, the NHL totals don't even add up to 76.
So let's deal with that first. NHL gives no decision to *any* Seals goaltender for Feb 21, although Smith played entire game per their boxscore: https://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/stl-vs-oak/1969/02/21/1968020352#game=1968020352,game_state=final
So that's an error - give an extra win to Gary Smith for February 21, 1969.
Investigating the NHL game logs against mine, we focus on December 15, 1968, where the NHL has Smith with the loss (not Worthy). Chicago Tribune has Worthy replacing Smith at the Doug Mohns goal at 27:18, which matches the times in the new NHL box score:
https://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/oak-vs-chi/1968/12/15/1968020167#game=1968020167,game_state=final
The new box doesn't show time of goal scorers, but HSP matches Mohns:
http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/ppoboxscore.cgi?H19680167
Mohns' goal was Chicago's fourth, making the score 4-3 for the Black Hawks. Chicago won 7-4, so Worthy's first GA (the fifth Chicago goal) would give him the loss, not Smith.
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Toronto - Last but certainly not least, since we have a three-way problem to deal with.
Bruce Gamble: me 28-19-12, NHL 28-20-11 (NHL has extra L, missing T)
Johnny Bower: me 5-5-2, NHL 6-4-3 (NHL has extra W, missing L, extra T)
Al Smith: me 2-2-1, NHL 1-2-1 (NHL has missing W).
(Too Long Didn't Read: the NHL is wrong once, and me/HSP is wrong twice.)
So let's first find the tie that the NHL has for Bower but I have for Gamble. Having the NHL's version of game logs makes this easier that it's ever been for me, by the way.
The NHL has Bower playing the entire game for Toronto (and getting the tie) on November 30th. I had Gamble, and it looks like my source was HSP. Sebastien Tremblay also has Bower, so I dug in a bit - the Minneapolis Star Tribune mentions Bower multiple times in Dwayne Netland's summary, and the box summaries for the Los Angeles Times and Hartford Courant both have Bower as well.
So the NHL's right, and HSP has it off.
Now, let's find the win that the NHL has for Bower but I have for Smith.
October 23 is the date:
https://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/stl-vs-tor/1968/10/23/1968020028#game=1968020028,game_state=final
NHL gives the win to Bower (not Smith), although Smith's 51:38 TOI and Bower's 8:22 TOI match my other sources. In a 6-4 Toronto victory over St. Louis, the score was 6-3, Toronto, at 51:38. It's mentioned in a few places, but I'll quote the St. Louis Post-Dispatch: "Leaf general manager Punch Imlach pulled a surprise by putting veteran goaltender Johnny Bower into the game with eight minutes to play. Ab McDonald beat Bower for the final goal with Roberts and Ron Schock aiding..."I put Bower in because he had to get his feet wet sometime, and with a three-goal lead I figured this was the spot," Imlach said.
This seems clear that the win belongs to Smith and not Bower, and therefore the NHL has it wrong.
Last, let's find the loss that the NHL has for Gamble but I have for Bower.
That date is January 9 - I have Bower playing (as does HSP), and the NHL (and Tremblay) both have Gamble playing:
https://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/tor-vs-bos/1969/01/09/1968020231#game=1968020231,game_state=final
Gamble is mentioned in the Detroit Free Press summary, and is in every box score that I can find. I cannot find any evidence that Bower played in this game.
So here, the NHL's right and HSP has it off.
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I'll be updating my season totals to reflect the above, and will get the game logs up over the next few days.
1968-69 was always much worse - I had put together about ten pages detailing my case originally, where twenty different goaltenders had GP/W-L-T combinations different than what I had researched. I'm happy to report that the new published totals by the league have resolved 13 of these 20 situations (their new totals match my research).
That leaves seven goaltenders across three teams (NY Rangers, Oakland, Toronto).
--------------------------------------------------------
New York Rangers - I have Simmons at 1-1-1, the NHL has Simmons at 1-2-1 (I also have Giacomin at 38-24-7, the NHL has him at 38-23-7). Looking at the league's game logs, the difference is the March 1st game against Boston.
NY Times: "Don Simmons…had replaced Giacomin after Esposito's score." Esposito's goal at 33:41 was sixth Boston goal in 8-5 win; therefore, loss goes to Giacomin. Boston Globe (Tom Fitzgerald): "Espo accomplished this objective at 13:41 in the second period, making a strong move for a close-up smash by Ed Giacomin after a pass out from Ken Hodge." "After Esposito's goal, coach Francis removed Giacomin from the N.Y. net and replaced him with Don Simmons."
The NHL's revised box summary here:
https://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/nyr-vs-bos/1969/03/01/1968020372#game=1968020372,game_state=final
Matches the times I've found for Giacomin (33:41) and Simmons - and the Giacomin time exactly matches the time of Esposito's goal (the sixth goal), but they give the loss to Simmons in his totals. I believe that the league is in error still.
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Oakland - I have Smith at 22-20-7 and Worthy at 4-8-2. NHL has Smith at 21-21-7 and Worthy at 4-7-2. Adding in Hodge's 3-8-2, the NHL totals don't even add up to 76.
So let's deal with that first. NHL gives no decision to *any* Seals goaltender for Feb 21, although Smith played entire game per their boxscore: https://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/stl-vs-oak/1969/02/21/1968020352#game=1968020352,game_state=final
So that's an error - give an extra win to Gary Smith for February 21, 1969.
Investigating the NHL game logs against mine, we focus on December 15, 1968, where the NHL has Smith with the loss (not Worthy). Chicago Tribune has Worthy replacing Smith at the Doug Mohns goal at 27:18, which matches the times in the new NHL box score:
https://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/oak-vs-chi/1968/12/15/1968020167#game=1968020167,game_state=final
The new box doesn't show time of goal scorers, but HSP matches Mohns:
http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/ppoboxscore.cgi?H19680167
Mohns' goal was Chicago's fourth, making the score 4-3 for the Black Hawks. Chicago won 7-4, so Worthy's first GA (the fifth Chicago goal) would give him the loss, not Smith.
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Toronto - Last but certainly not least, since we have a three-way problem to deal with.
Bruce Gamble: me 28-19-12, NHL 28-20-11 (NHL has extra L, missing T)
Johnny Bower: me 5-5-2, NHL 6-4-3 (NHL has extra W, missing L, extra T)
Al Smith: me 2-2-1, NHL 1-2-1 (NHL has missing W).
(Too Long Didn't Read: the NHL is wrong once, and me/HSP is wrong twice.)
So let's first find the tie that the NHL has for Bower but I have for Gamble. Having the NHL's version of game logs makes this easier that it's ever been for me, by the way.
The NHL has Bower playing the entire game for Toronto (and getting the tie) on November 30th. I had Gamble, and it looks like my source was HSP. Sebastien Tremblay also has Bower, so I dug in a bit - the Minneapolis Star Tribune mentions Bower multiple times in Dwayne Netland's summary, and the box summaries for the Los Angeles Times and Hartford Courant both have Bower as well.
So the NHL's right, and HSP has it off.
Now, let's find the win that the NHL has for Bower but I have for Smith.
October 23 is the date:
https://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/stl-vs-tor/1968/10/23/1968020028#game=1968020028,game_state=final
NHL gives the win to Bower (not Smith), although Smith's 51:38 TOI and Bower's 8:22 TOI match my other sources. In a 6-4 Toronto victory over St. Louis, the score was 6-3, Toronto, at 51:38. It's mentioned in a few places, but I'll quote the St. Louis Post-Dispatch: "Leaf general manager Punch Imlach pulled a surprise by putting veteran goaltender Johnny Bower into the game with eight minutes to play. Ab McDonald beat Bower for the final goal with Roberts and Ron Schock aiding..."I put Bower in because he had to get his feet wet sometime, and with a three-goal lead I figured this was the spot," Imlach said.
This seems clear that the win belongs to Smith and not Bower, and therefore the NHL has it wrong.
Last, let's find the loss that the NHL has for Gamble but I have for Bower.
That date is January 9 - I have Bower playing (as does HSP), and the NHL (and Tremblay) both have Gamble playing:
https://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/tor-vs-bos/1969/01/09/1968020231#game=1968020231,game_state=final
Gamble is mentioned in the Detroit Free Press summary, and is in every box score that I can find. I cannot find any evidence that Bower played in this game.
So here, the NHL's right and HSP has it off.
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I'll be updating my season totals to reflect the above, and will get the game logs up over the next few days.