Goalies who handle the puck well...

Discussion in 'New York Rangers' started by Cliffy1814, Oct 4, 2013.

View Users: View Users
  1. Cliffy1814

    Cliffy1814 Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    909
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It was pretty evident last night at how valuable a puck handling goalie can be. Smith's play led directly to the second goal.
    From a borader perspective, guys like Smith and Brodeur really can slow down a forecheck if you are careless with your dumps which was also evident last night.

    This is a really valuable thing to have in a long series where a team can target a poor puck handling goalie and bang your D around over seven games and force you to go 200 feet every time.

    I love Hank, but this is truly the one part of his game that is below average. What sort of gnaws at me is that he has never really improved it. It strikes me the same way as when I see a great basktball player unable to make free throws. As a fan you're like "Can't he work on that and get better". I still find myself screaming at the TV to "Don't touch it".
    I know you always want the one thing you can't have, but man he could make life easier for our D if he could even become average at it.

    I am not a goalie (or a world class athlete) so I cannot attest to the validity of my thinking so I am throwing it out to the board.

    The only thing I can come up with is that if you are a natural right handed thrower and shooter in hockey, as a goalie you wind up having to shoot lefty by virtue of having the catching glove on left hand and stick in right hand. That could certain limit your proficiency in handling the puck.

    Can any goalies out there comment? Does that make any sense?
     
  2. Gardner McKay

    Gardner McKay You had to be there

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2007
    Messages:
    19,736
    Likes Received:
    2,790
    Trophy Points:
    192
    Location:
    SoutheastOfDisorder
    This probably belongs in Jon's thread. But if they keep it open... I agree. Lundqvist is terribad at puck handling. You would think that they have worked with him on it over the years (there has been a SLIGHT improvement). It is something that has cost us many, many times. Yet at this stage of his career I don't see it improving much at atll.
     
  3. eco's bones

    eco's bones Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2005
    Messages:
    19,257
    Likes Received:
    2,256
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Location:
    Elmira NY
    Smith was a main factor in the game winning goal. OTOH Rangers did knock several of his passes down and the play that led to the Dorsett fight was almost a huge blunder on his part as Dorsett did get his stick on Smith's stick and the puck right on top of the goal crease. Smith's on ice awareness wasn't all that great apart from that goal he helped his team score.
     
  4. Crease

    Crease Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2004
    Messages:
    14,176
    Likes Received:
    1,814
    Trophy Points:
    186
    A vast majority of right-handed goalies shoot left-handed very well sans goalie gloves. The impediment is the inability to get a solid grip with your bottom hand due to the design of the catcher; it is not that they'd prefer to shoot right-handed.
     
  5. DelZottoHitTheNetJK

    DelZottoHitTheNetJK Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2011
    Messages:
    1,033
    Likes Received:
    55
    Trophy Points:
    71
    I played goal in HS and college so I think I can chime in here; this pretty much holds true. I didn't pay attention in last nights game to how Hank handled the puck but it looks like he does it old school with his trapper held towards the sky underneath the stick. This makes it very difficult to handle the puck (shoot it with power, mostly) as a goalie. Most goalies nowadays turn the catcher over and close it on the stick, which gives MUCH more grip for hard shooting and passing. Two guys that really made this famous were Turco and DiPietro and it just caught on from there. In high school I used the old fashioned way to handle the puck, then when Turco and DP started passing hail marys from behind the net to the opponents blue line everyone started switching to that method including me.

    The second part of the equation for Hank is that he is rumored to use a VERY stiff glove. This is evident in his catching style; he very rarely closes his glove on the puck when making a save which is a pretty tell tale sign of a super stiff glove. The reason that some goalies use a ridiculously stiff glove is two-fold; one being for extra protection in the palm (this is more of an issue in practice, where goalies will usually have an even STIFFER practice glove), the second for maximum surface area coverage. Softer gloves tend to naturally crush inwards as they break in, reducing surface area to get glove on puck. Stiff gloves don't crush inwards as they break in which gives them a larger, circular surface to get leather on puck. This makes the Turco method of stick handling basically impossible for Hank as his glove won't fully close over the stick.

    TL;DR : it's a tradeoff. Hank chooses a stiff glove because it provides better shot coverage which is really a goalies #1 priority. Smith uses a softer glove for better puck handling. Because puck handling is priority #2, it's pretty logical as to why Hank uses the stiffer glove
     
  6. Hire Sather

    Hire Sather Don't punt seasons

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2002
    Messages:
    28,451
    Likes Received:
    788
    Trophy Points:
    214
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Smith gets very lucky, especially against the Rangers. He made a lot of silly plays that the Rangers read and knocked down but couldn't do anything with.

    He made that 2nd goal though, no doubt.

    Personally I'd lose my mind with a goalie like that on the Rangers.
     
  7. Bluenote13

    Bluenote13 Believe In Henke

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    Messages:
    26,033
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    BKLYN, NYC
    Home Page:
    It'd be nice, but stopping the puck like a magician more than makes up for below average stick handling skills.
     
  8. HockeyBasedNYC

    HockeyBasedNYC Back-checking Center

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2005
    Messages:
    13,669
    Likes Received:
    141
    Trophy Points:
    141
    Location:
    Here
    I've said it a hundred times, 8 times out of 10 when Hank handles the puck, it results in putting his teammates in bad positions. And im not exaggerating. He hesitates often and usually pics the wrong side and area to put the puck in. this results in extra scoring chances and zone time for the opposition. AV is going to hate this as he gets to know Henriks game.

    Hes better off staying in his crease the entire time. I love Lundqvist but thats an area he really struggles with and hasnt improved much over the years. Some fans will minimize this, but it is a significant contributor to defensive zone time over the course of the year. You realize this when you watch Biron play a game. Hes not a Smith or Brodeur out there, but he gets the job done.

    If Henrik was just an average, competent puck handler - he would probably face 1 or 2 less quality chances per game.
     
  9. Bluenote13

    Bluenote13 Believe In Henke

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    Messages:
    26,033
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    BKLYN, NYC
    Home Page:
    HB, if they know he is not the best with the puck on his stick, they need to adapt. Henke is what he is. I can count plenty of Cup winning goalies who were downright awful at stickhandling. Those teams didn't press for a better stickhandler, they adapted to fit their game.

    Richter was just as bad, no one cared when he was stopping the puck like a world beater.
     
  10. Zamboner

    Zamboner Juice in his slacks

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Messages:
    2,385
    Likes Received:
    50
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    NY
    A goalie who handles the puck "well," still handles the puck horribly. It's a sliding scale. Personally, I have no envy about that. Smith isn't going to be responsible for many goals for this year, but he will be responsible for many horrible giveaways, and if I were a Yotes fan, three or four times a game where my sphincter closes. So, no thanks. Granted, goalies like this are good for disrupting forechecks, but the best teams aren't usually dump and chase, and if they are, they're smart enough to dump into corners. My biggest problem with goalies that handle the puck "well," is that because they're confident, they overhandle the puck. I want my goalie touching the puck as little as possible.
     
  11. Cliffy1814

    Cliffy1814 Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    909
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This is true and as some have said already Smith almost gave a couple away last night, and it certainly is not like the goalie is going to spring a guy for a breakaway that directly results in a goal too often. The risk vs regard is perhaps neglible.

    I think that potential advnatage manifests itself more in the playoffs though. A goalie who can help in the break out it is a huge advantage. Two years ago in the ECF it was really evident on both sides. The Devils have average defensemen who were greatly aided by Marty, while we were basically playing 4.5 defensemen and the Devils were throwng it in and taking every opportunity to bang our D. Del Zotto for instance, started making quick irrational decisions with the puck.
     
  12. HockeyBasedNYC

    HockeyBasedNYC Back-checking Center

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2005
    Messages:
    13,669
    Likes Received:
    141
    Trophy Points:
    141
    Location:
    Here

    That's all well and good, but how do you adapt?

    Especially in AV's system where the pressure is going to be up the ice and on the transition game. Its more about the decision making of Lundy and not where his teammates are. A lot of times his teammates are in perfect positions to receive a pass or support him and he rings it around the other side, doesnt get the puck to them fast enough, or drops it into an area that isnt advantageous. I dont know how you can adapt to that other then not letting him handle the puck at all or only during certain situations.
     
  13. Clown Fiesta

    Clown Fiesta Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuke

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    13,780
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Montana
    This thread wouldn't exist if we had won and/or hadn't played against Smith.

    Hank certainly isn't a puck mover, never has been, never will be. But he is as good at it as he needs to be. Biron is pretty solid maybe we should just use him as our starter?

    Jonathan Quick is pretty bad too, at least Hanks gaffs don't lead to empty net goals.

    Anyone remember his rookie season I think when it seemed like he was going for the empty net goal and a Flyer knocked it down and scored on him lol. That really stopped him from trying to do anything too risky.
     
  14. Bluenote13

    Bluenote13 Believe In Henke

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    Messages:
    26,033
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    BKLYN, NYC
    Home Page:
    You just said it, instead of anticipating a perfect pass from a guy who continually shows he has a problem with that, maybe they need to economize their actions in the defensive zone. You make it sound like that is impossible to achieve, yet teams have been doing it for years.
     
  15. 007

    007 You 'Orns!

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,591
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    96
    Location:
    Mannahatta
    I think with Hank, it's more than just technique. More than once I've seen him make very poor decisions with the puck behind his net, even when trying to make a play that he's perfectly capable of. I don't think it's that his hockey sense disappears when he leaves the crease, I think it's that he must be fully aware that puckhandling is the worst aspect of his game (like everyone else, I agree that's the best worst thing to have), which causes him to hesitate sometimes.
     
  16. aufheben

    aufheben #WE’REHAVINGAFIRE.....Sale

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    37,381
    Likes Received:
    3,803
    Trophy Points:
    157
    Hanks puckhandling has gotten a lot better the last couple years. Every time he used to play it he would send it straight to the other team. He still makes gaffs but he has gotten noticeably better. You can't have a goalie that's amazing at everything. Hank's puckhandling is dead last on the list of this team's problems.
     
  17. Fanned On It

    Fanned On It Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Messages:
    2,020
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    New York
    You realize that the "right" way (well not really "right" but the way that makes most sense according to most hockey players/coaches) to shoot in hockey is to have your power hand on top, right? So a natural righty (who writes right-handed and throws right-handed) like myself would shoot "lefty" in hockey with his right hand on top of the stick controlling stick-handling/most other functions.

    With that in mind, it actually BENEFITS right-handed goalies if they play goalie normally as opposed to south-paw.
     
  18. vstk

    vstk Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2011
    Messages:
    717
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Valhalla, NY
    You have to remember that Hank uses a modified catching glove with strengthened paw which is why it makes his saves look awkward and funny at times. I do believe this is a direct result why his stickhandling is as bad as it is. I can't believe how hard it is to use that glove for pretty much anything.

    Your better hand (the one that feels natural when you're catching) is always the glove hand. That, and pretty much solely that, makes you choose a side when you start playing hockey as a kid. How much it's result of throwing and catching ball when you're a kid, I don't know. The other hand throws better, other catches better. That makes sense?

    10/10 goalies would choose a better glove hand over stickhandling any given time. Some are better at the other, some are good doing both.
     
  19. mrhockey193195

    mrhockey193195 Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    5,344
    Likes Received:
    244
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    It's funny, I always thought he was better with the puck than people gave him credit for. Then that moment happened, and I think Renney and the staff probably told him to cut the **** and not try that again. And I feel like his confidence and ability with the puck went completely downhill soon after.
     

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"