Speculation: Go All In or Be Patient?

[guymez]

Okay, I won't judge them on the last few games... I'll judge them on the entire season. Garbage. Trash. Waste. They've been out of a playoff spot since October and never really threatened to climb back in. They have very few prospects of worth (assuming they don't win the lottery) and nobody in the organization seems to have a clue.

Please, give me reasons for positivity that don't mention Connor McDavid.

Lol...carry on.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Lol...carry on.

So you don't have any reasons for optimism? What a shocker.

 

[guymez]

So you don't have any reasons for optimism? What a shocker.

No...I am just not interested in feeding your depressing disposition.
No point in trying to engage an unhappy cynic.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

No...I am just not interested in feeding your depressing disposition.

It's okay to admit you're not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

Not many people here see it either.

 

[McDrai]

He is certainly a 'real' dramatic cynic.

I mean its fine to be skeptical but there is a big difference between cynicism and skepticism.

Stating that Chiarelli will f*** up the Oilers regardless isn't really being cynical. That seems pretty bang on to me considering his extensive trade track record.

 

[guymez]

It's okay to admit you're not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

Not many people here see it either.

No really...I meant what I said in my last post.

 

[Soundwave]

 

[McGoMcD]

All in but after you get rid of Chia.

 

[guymez]

Stating that Chiarelli will **** up the Oilers regardless isn't really being cynical. That seems pretty bang on to me considering his extensive trade track record.

2 peas in a pod.

You can talk to each other. Nothing worthwhile here for me.

 

[McDrai]

2 peas in a pod.

You can talk to each other. Nothing worthwhile here for me.

Say hi to your boy Chia for me

 

[Soundwave]

There is no option really. When your management is bad, "patience" is the only thing on the menu, really (unless "lose trade" is on special) and bad management usually caps itself out pretty fast too, so you can't really spend even if you wanted to. Good GMs give their teams options and flexibility, bad GMs back their team into a corner.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Patience. Small things are needed to turn things around. Some major pieces are already here and we still have a World class Nucleus. DO NOT blow it up further.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Patience. Small things are needed to turn things around. Some major pieces are already here and we still have a World class Nucleus. DO NOT blow it up further.

I agree. 1st we look at our biggest needs.

1) Puck moving dman. Klef did that just fine when he was healthy, so there is hope that he comes back to form. Nurse is improving in that area, Bear has some solid potential and we will probably draft a player this year who specializes in it.

2) Top Scoring Winger: If we don't have that coming in one of Puljujarvi, Yamamoto, Benson, Safin or Maximov...

Then you look at rebounding/vs regressions. There is a long list of players on this team due for a rebound season. The only guy I can really see regressing is Khaira...

 

[I am the Liquor]

I agree. 1st we look at our biggest needs.

1) Puck moving dman. Klef did that just fine when he was healthy, so there is hope that he comes back to form. Nurse is improving in that area, Bear has some solid potential and we will probably draft a player this year who specializes in it.

2) Top Scoring Winger: If we don't have that coming in one of Puljujarvi, Yamamoto, Benson, Safin or Maximov...

Then you look at rebounding/vs regressions. There is a long list of players on this team due for a rebound season. The only guy I can really see regressing is Khaira...

Goaltending is a question mark.

Defense isn't good enough.

Too many times the offense is McDavid or nothing, no in between.

It is hard to come to solid conclusions when the coaching has been this bad.

Its hard to be positive when the owner is bat shit crazy and dumb as a fence post. Still McDavid draws you in and gives one hope because he is just that good.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Goaltending is a question mark.

Defense isn't good enough.

Too many times the offense is McDavid or nothing, no in between.

It is hard to come to solid conclusions when the coaching has been this bad.

Its hard to be positive when the owner is bat **** crazy and dumb as a fence post. Still McDavid draws you in and gives one hope because he is just that good.

I'd love to see what a competent coaching staff could do with this team. I do fear what that bat **** crazy owner will do though. If Paul Coffey becomes the head coach I just might be done. lol

 

[CupofOil]

Some really good posts in this thread, until Page 3 when the usual suspects showed up for their daily thread derailment. Anyway, here's my stab at it....

I think patience is the smartest approach. It's essential to draft and develop in this league, it has to happen, and I don't mean just developing obvious elite talents.
They need to develop some "surprise" lower round picks, I swear that every organization has at least a few young players that come out of nowhere to be impact players (2nd rounders and below). Until this happens, the Oilers will never compete for anything meaningful McDavid or not. Supplement that with some bargain bin signings and more Maroon type trades and go from there. Teams don't build foundations with big splash trades and signings, they build that foundation first through internal development and smart signings then they add a big piece once they are close to contention (like the Kings did with Carter, Hawks with Hossa).

This is the problem though. Even though some of us think the patient approach is prudent, there's absolutely no chance in hell that Chia will stay patient, no chance. They are entering McDavid 4th season, after missing the playoffs by a country mile 2 of the first 3 and Chia's job security is starting to become a little perilous or maybe a lot perilous so there's no way that he remains patient folks, not happening IMO.

The thing is that I don't see a move he can make that will markedly improve the team without subtracting a significant asset. An RNH or Klefbom for scoring winger or 2nd pairing PMD for example. That's a lateral move or at best, a slight upgrade depending on the asset coming back or even more possible, the type of deal that becomes regrettable in short order.
The "all in" approach would require a huge loss of assets to bring in one player who may or may not be a fit and these trades are a longshot anyway.

I think the pick is gone for a scoring winger or PMD unless they win one of the lotteries, don't get attached to it. That's the only feasible move I see that can improve the team in the short term. Forget free agency, they don't have the cap space to add a significant player nor should they sign another cap crippling contract.
Either way, I don't know how far they can go with this coaching staff. The issues with them have been discussed to death, they are just as much a problem as the personnel is if not more.

 

[McJesusSaves97]

When the coaching staff, GM, + drafting and development are all issues it is hard to justify either (going all in or patience)

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

does all in mean kucherov or rick nash?

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

When the coaching staff, GM, + drafting and development are all issues it is hard to justify either (going all in or patience)

I actually have faith in the drafting of Chiarelli and Keith Gretzky together. Even looking at the 2016 draft. By the sounds of it, they wanted Sergachev before Puljujarvi fell to them. People may have been upset with Sergachev at 4 but he's looking pretty darn good. Even drafting Benson over Debrincat. I wanted Debrincat, but Benson wasn't a bad pick. It was like Moroz or Musil.

Look at that 2014 Boston Draft. Look at Bear, Jones, Maximov, Safin etc. They are building a pretty solid prospect pool with our later round picks and college signings.

 

[GMofOilers]

I agree. 1st we look at our biggest needs.

1) Puck moving dman. Klef did that just fine when he was healthy, so there is hope that he comes back to form. Nurse is improving in that area, Bear has some solid potential and we will probably draft a player this year who specializes in it.

2) Top Scoring Winger: If we don't have that coming in one of Puljujarvi, Yamamoto, Benson, Safin or Maximov...

Then you look at rebounding/vs regressions. There is a long list of players on this team due for a rebound season. The only guy I can really see regressing is Khaira...

Goalie! First and most important.

Then you had to that.

 

[yababy]

I see a lot of different views on what should happen with the team going forward, and I'm curious which option you would prefer?

1) Go All In - In this scenerio the team does everything it can to land Karlsson/OEL or Carlson. They use assets to get rid of some bad contracts and and use other assets to bring in more secondary scoring. Going this route could have a very good roster, but we would be bare for both picks and prospects.

2) Be Patient - We are adding another high pick to a pretty solid prospect pool. Are we better off being patient for our 2018 pick (likely a dman), Pulju, Yama, Bear and Jones while waiting out some of these bad contracts?

Can we back the vote up 3 years ago.
Be patient would mean we still have Hall, the draft picks instead of Reinhart, etc.
At 2015 literally every draft pick should have been Defence.
I'd move out Eberle for a goalie, not Talbot

 

[Asiaoil]

Goaltending is a question mark.

Defense isn't good enough.

Too many times the offense is McDavid or nothing, no in between.

It is hard to come to solid conclusions when the coaching has been this bad.

Its hard to be positive when the owner is bat **** crazy and dumb as a fence post. Still McDavid draws you in and gives one hope because he is just that good.

Yeah the coaching is been utterly abysmal.

Here is the deal though. If you look at the Oilers roster and system in the summer of 2015, it's basically worse than a 3rd year expansion team with only the recent first round picks Hall, Ebs, RNH worth anything. Nurse and Drai were junior players and Klef was a 3rd pair rookie with 75 NHL games under his belt. The system beyond Drai and Nurse was even worse than a 3rd year expansion team as it was totally bankrupt of any decent players after years of terrible drafting. The only decent veteran D (Petry) was traded for peanuts and the goaltending at all levels was a nightmare. So yeah you add McDavid into that mix but it's still an awful team with no veteran leadership, goaltending or defense.

People shouting keep Hall, Keep Ebs, don't trade the picks or sign risky UFA are actually asking for the same strategy that failed spectacularly for 10 years. Look at where this team was at in the summer of 2015 - it was a disaster - you almost couldn't screw it up worse if you tried.

Risky or not we signed the best available UFA dman in year 1 of McDavid (Sekera) and one of the best forwards available in year 2 (Lucic). Want to know some of the other "top" forwards signed that summer for about the same money as Lucic? How about Okposo, Ladd, Brower, Eriksson, Backes, and even with this insanely bad year, Lucic is still scoring as well or better than the rest of that motley group. There is a lesson here abuot the risks of signing UFA. You don't do it unless you are desperate (we were) or get a young guy who wants to move for some reason. Same with trading good young players. You don't do it unless you are desperate with critical holes to fill.

So in the end there are guys who need to be fired. They are the guys who created this mess - their names are McTavish, Lowe, Howson - and they still work for this organization. They are a cancer that has been suppressed but not removed. This needs to happen this off-season and the team needs to get a new innovative coach to make the jump to being a long-term contender.

 

[lakai17]

Be patient but also be in a rush. McDavid won't stop. Be relevant come December and come the beginning of March.

Mainly we need a new coach who understands the game of hockey, whom will implement a system and utilize his players properly.

 

[Soundwave]

Which players are honestly being utilized that incorrectly?

McDavid, Draisaitl, Nurse, RNH, Khaira are having career or close to career years.

Not Todd's fault that Klefbom's shoulder was screwed or the GM didn't bother to think Sekera being out until mid-December was an issue.

Caggiula, Slepyshev, Strome, Kassian, Khaira, Benning, Russell, are what they are, none are really being misued, they're just not great.

Puljujarvi plays a very awkward style and doesn't have at this point great finish (hate to say it but he blew several 2 on 1s with McDavid).

Lucic's struggles are on Lucic. Todd has tried him on every single line, more minutes, less minutes, the guy just sucks and that's on the GM for betting the farm on this player.

 

[McJesusSaves97]

I actually have faith in the drafting of Chiarelli and Keith Gretzky together. Even looking at the 2016 draft. By the sounds of it, they wanted Sergachev before Puljujarvi fell to them. People may have been upset with Sergachev at 4 but he's looking pretty darn good. Even drafting Benson over Debrincat. I wanted Debrincat, but Benson wasn't a bad pick. It was like Moroz or Musil.

Look at that 2014 Boston Draft. Look at Bear, Jones, Maximov, Safin etc. They are building a pretty solid prospect pool with our later round picks and college signings.

I agree that recent drafting appears to be improving. Debrincat did seem like a no brainer at the time...I really wanted Tolvanen over Yamamoto too, but perhaps too early to pass judgement