GM's making mistakes early in the FA frenzy!

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by eye, Aug 2, 2005.

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  1. eye

    eye Registered User

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    So far IMO, Atlanta's Don Waddell has overpaid to get Holik by at least 2 million per. 3rd lind C's should be making no more than 1.5.

    Flyers sign huge D that lack mobility and will have trouble with the no redline game. Should have saved the $$ from Hatcher and Therion and gone after Rafalski or Niedermeyer or just stayed patient with their top 2 AHL Dmen and used the money come trade deadline time.
    IMO, Hatcher will really struggle with the new NHL flow game.

    Fergusen keeping Belfore and McCabe will prove costly for years to the Leafs. McCabe really struggled the last time they cracked down on obstruction and isn't worth half of what he gets and Belfore at 40 with a bad back wasn't worth the gamble. The Leafs inability to resign the heart and sould leadership of their team in Gary Roberts and underestimating the importance of Tie Domi will all lead to the leafs struggle satisfy their fans. Domi is not worth more than 1 million per but they should have stroked his ego and sold him on his own importance. He would be a great forchecker in the new NHL. Ferguson needs to take a used car salesperson approach to getting players to buy into the Leafs and he seems to lack that kind of demeanour. Watch for Leafs fans to become unberable.
     
  2. FlyersProspect2

    FlyersProspect2 Registered User

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    Your wrong there, the Flyers already have puck moving defenseman, they needed the physical kind.

    However I agree that most of these guys are being over paid.
     
  3. Mowzie

    Mowzie Asst. Dishwasher

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    Ya, the market is already severely skewed to say the least. Interesting to see what happens now. Holik at 4.25? will they still have the ability to sign Kovy and Heater?
     
  4. VanIslander

    VanIslander Don't waste my time

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    I stopped reading because...

    Holik is a two-way 2nd liner who shuts down the opposition's top line shift in and shift out. Only in defensive deep New Jersey would he ever get third line responsibility.

    He's a premier player at what he does, and while 3.0 mill may see more in line with today's NHL, the signings of Aucoin and Foote set the bar of comparison, and besides, his contract is front loaded, so he's not making 4 mill each year of the contract.
     
  5. Poignant Discussion*

    Poignant Discussion* I tell it like it is

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    You should seriously keep to posting on the business board and leave the hockey stuff to the big boys.

    1. McCabe and Belfour - Last year of contracts and with the money being given to other D-men McCabe is a bargain at what he is being paid. Lets not forget he was 3rd in Norris voting last season

    2. The Leafs had no intrest in keeping a couple of injury prone older players at 2.25 a season. Especially on a 2 year contract

    When the Leafs overpay they get insulted and when they do a good business decision they get insulted. Makes you wonder what the agenda of some of these posters really is
     
  6. HockeyCritter

    HockeyCritter Registered User

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    Holik is a great pickup by Atlanta --- maybe they overpaid a tiny bit, but for what he can bring a young talented team, he's worth it.
     
  7. DanKramerHabs

    DanKramerHabs HFBoards Partner

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    Agreed. Holik's value is probably around 3 million, as he is a premiere two way player in the league. That being said, to land one of the top UFAs early in the game, you need offer more than market value, which is what Atlanta did at getting him for 4.25M at least in the first year.
     
  8. The HW

    The HW Registered User

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    So far, the overpayment has been brutal. Aucoin, Hatcher, Holik, Foote and the Roberts/Niewendyk package are all very desirable players, but I can't believe how much they're commanding.

    And to think the culprits include Atlanta, Columbus, Florida, etc... what was the lockout for, guys?!?!
     
  9. eye

    eye Registered User

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    Obviously you didn't see him playing for the Rangers. Holik's best days are behind him. If he plays 2nd line C in Atlanta he will be getting too much icetime and power play time. He was used properly in N.J. as primarily a PK checking C.
     
  10. colosilverado

    colosilverado Registered User

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    It's the same ole-same ole. Different GM's are the culprits now ( other than Clarke) and showing how hypocritical they are.
     
  11. sveiglar

    sveiglar Registered User

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    Too many people have assumed that "salary cap" equates to "nobody deserves over $2M".

    Adam Foote will be the #1D in Columbus. Zubov the #1 in Dallas. Aucoin the #1 in Chicago. Holik a very strong #2 center in Atlanta. These guys are still going to get paid under the new system... and what they are making is in all cases significantly less than they made in the past (or stood to make on this contract under the old system).

    A lot of guys will get squeezed by the time it's all said and done, and teams will field full rosters under the cap... but those feeling the pinch will be the grunts for whom supply far exceeds demand.

    This is still a market-based system at its heart... it's just that the market will be bullish for the stars and a complete bear for the worker bees.
     
  12. shakes

    shakes Pep City

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    seriously, you know nothing about the Leafs. Can you explain to me how Belfour and McCabe are going to hurt the Leafs for years when they are in the last year of their contract?
     
  13. Jackets16

    Jackets16 Registered User

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    can you explain to me how def set the bar for the signing of a center
     
  14. OilKiller

    OilKiller Registered User

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    :clap: :clap: :clap:
     
  15. Riverdome

    Riverdome Registered User

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    For the most part I don't see these players as being over paid. The fans just need to get used to the smaller teams being able to offer the same kind of contract that the large markets used to offer. Detroit/NYR would have offered these guys the same kind of money (or more) if they had the cap room. At the end of the FA signing period I think we'll see contracts similar (yes smaller, but similar) to the "old NHL" the money will jsut be spent by all the teams and not the top 1%.

    Moral of the story, spend your money wisely or pay for it in the long haul. Those teams laying low now may be in the best position next year when the FA market is again flooded with top notch talent.

    WINGS IN '07 & '08
     
  16. HockeyCritter

    HockeyCritter Registered User

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    Right there - you described why he was a "failure" in New York ----- they expected him to score, not to shut down the other team. I do not think Hartley will make the same mistake.
     
  17. Souffle

    Souffle A soupçon of nutmeg

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    I don't really agree. Holik is an elite 3rd line center. He's in the same class as Primeau. They can both play against the other team's top line all night long without hurting you offensively or defensively. It's also clear that Atlanta is rounding out its team by adding a physical, defensive element.

    Clarke is not stupid. He still has talented Pitkanen and Johnnson for the no-red-line rule. I think people are going to be surprised how important a physical D will be in the new NHL. Goals will still be scored in front of the net, on rebounds, deflections, and scrambles. Hatcher may be a pylon (I don't think he is), but an effective one if you have to go behind the net or into a corner to get around him. In fact, that's probably what Hitchcock will do: clog the slot with big, punishing bodies and let the other team try to score from the perimeter, and then counter with a quick stretch pass off the inevitable cross-ice turnover.

    If anything, the new anti-obstruction rules will hurt small D the most, seeing as they won't be able to cheat with stick-holdings and can-openers against larger opponents. Body-on-body against Thornton or Sundin in front of the net, I'll take Hatcher over Rafalski always.
     
  18. colosilverado

    colosilverado Registered User

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    Does Hitch still use that same defensive style that he did with Dallas where they used to force action to one side of the ice?
     
  19. wasting time

    wasting time Registered User

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    I think people are missing the point on these signings by saying that they are too much and the owners are making the same mistake. Why?

    Because there is a frikkin salary cap, and most of the team won't challenge it anyway!

    So, a team will pay for a player based on what their value is to their own team. Roberts and Niewy were worth $9 million to Florida, less than half that to Toronto. Same for Aucoin, Holik etc etc. Teams pay for their value to their unique personnel on their own team.

    Look around people! Talent is getting equally distributed throughout the league! This is parity! This is what everyone wanted! So shut up with the belly aching about players getting too much money!

    And by the way, a few player like Holik, Aucoin etc. are getting the big bucks. You are going to see a PILE of players getting signed around the league minimum who got big bucks under the old CBA.
     
  20. jerseydevil

    jerseydevil Registered User

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    I couldn't disagree more about Holik...He's fantastic player that will complement Atlanta's young guns very well...And to the guys who said what was the lockout for??.....Holik went from 9 million to 4.25...that's what the lockout was for....

    GREAT pickup for Atlanta...
     
  21. Slats432

    Slats432 Registered User

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    I agree with the overpayment....seems like contracts are higher than I expected.

    OTOH, the culprits etc...the lockout was because instead of being able to sign these players for $4 million, the Wings, Avs, Stars etc would pay them $6 million. If they have the cap room...que sera.
     
  22. loudi94

    loudi94 Master of my Domain

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    The thing that surprises me about Holik is that Atlanta is going to have to sink approx $15 million on 3 players. Way too much especially for Holik. BTW boy didn't he make out like a bandit. He'll get paid close to his pre CBA salary between the buyout and this deal.
     
  23. Poignant Discussion*

    Poignant Discussion* I tell it like it is

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    The lockout happened because of teams like Anahiem - Kariya, Carolina - Fedorov, Washington - Jagr inflating the prices of players and then not being able to keep it up. Then teams like New York jumped in and COULD keep it up.

    Same thing is going on this time, except the big market teams have to support the bottom feeders now.
     
  24. LouJersey

    LouJersey Dilly Dilly

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    These new idiot GM's with money to spend finally are no different then the guys they blamed for the lockout mess.
     
  25. Guy Caballero

    Guy Caballero Registered User

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    At least now they'll have to answer for their moves.
     
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