News Article: GMBG Caught Up in Lawsuit from Pittsburgh Days

Dr Jan Itor

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I agree with a lot of this, but let's just simplify the discussion.

Do you think telling a victim of sexual assault to keep quiet is the right thing to do?

I can see the argument that guys shouldn't lose their jobs for something like that, but I can't begin to understand how some are thinking that Pitt/Guerin "did nothing wrong"

Simplified like that, I do not. But are we talking about filing charges? Are we talking about sending a tweet? That's were this issue is decided, for me.
 

2Pair

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There is nothing improper about an employer telling an employee that that can't publicly disclose a company PERSONNEL issue. That happens every day, everywhere. And nowhere in the plaintiff allegation is it said that BG told Skardle that he couldn't pursue criminal charges against Donatelli. Only that he's not permitted to discuss PERSONNEL matters publicly.

My question is why didn't Skardle or his wife file criminal charges against Donatelli? At that point, this all becomes public. But for some reason they decided not to do so. Instead, they waited for SEVEN MONTHS bring this to BG's attention....and within a week Donatelli was out of a job.

What more do you want an organization to do? Prosecute the case that even Skardle or his wife don't want prosecuted?
Sexual assault is not a company personnel matter. It's a crime.

I agree that's more than a few questions that need to be answered with how the Skardle's handled things. The only thing the Penguins did wrong IMO is telling the Skardle's to keep quiet on the issue. I just think that's enough for people to be held accountable given the circumstances.
 

MuckOG

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Sexual assault is not a company personnel matter. It's a crime.

I agree that's more than a few questions that need to be answered with how the Skardle's handled things. The only thing the Penguins did wrong IMO is telling the Skardle's to keep quiet on the issue. I just think that's enough for people to be held accountable given the circumstances.

Then the Skaldes should've reported it to the police. They didn't.

...and again, its common practice for employers to tell employees that PERSONNEL matters can't be disclosed publicly. That's what happens in the real world.

If the Skaldes wanted this public, they should have filed criminal charges. They still can if they want.
 

2Pair

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Simplified like that, I do not. But are we talking about filing charges? Are we talking about sending a tweet? That's were this issue is decided, for me.
If we're really talking about protection from "sending a tweet" then that conversation needs to be given by a Penguins lawyer and it needs to be recorded.

Then the Skaldes should've reported it to the police. They didn't.

...and again, its common practice for employers to tell employees that PERSONNEL matters can't be disclosed publicly. That's what happens in the real world.

If the Skaldes wanted this public, they should have filed criminal charges. They still can if they want.
And it can be argued that they didn't because their employer told them they couldn't.
 
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MuckOG

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And it can be argued that they didn't because their employer told them they couldn't.

Did you even read the article??? They waited SEVEN MONTHS to even tell Guerin!! And NOWHERE in the plaintiff's argument did they state that BG told them they couldn't file charges. They only allege that they were told that they can't PUBLICLY talk about the termination or the reasons behind it.

Bottom line, if they want to allege criminal misconduct, then they needed to call the police. They've had ample time to do so and for some reason choose not to, for whatever reason. If it were my wife, charges would've been filed the next day. It wouldn't take me seven months to talk to someone.
 
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ThatGuy22

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If we're really talking about protection from "sending a tweet" then that conversation needs to be given by a Penguins lawyer and it needs to be recorded.

This is def the f***up.

No way should HR or a lawyer not be the one to handle that conversation.
 

Dr Jan Itor

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And it can be argued that they didn't because their employer told them they couldn't.

And it can also be argued that they weren't too interested in doing so since they let 7 (I think) months lapse before bringing it to the organization's attention.
 

MuckOG

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This is def the f***up.

No way should HR or a lawyer not be the one to handle that conversation.

I don't even know if we know for a fact that HR and/or a lawyer wasn't involved in the discussion. My suspicion is we will find out there was.
 

2Pair

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Did you even read the article??? They waited SEVEN MONTHS to even tell Guerin!! And NOWHERE in the plaintiff's argument did they state that BG told them they couldn't file charges. They only allege that they were told that they can't PUBLICLY talk about the termination or the reasons behind it.

Bottom line, if they want to allege criminal misconduct, then they needed to call the police. They've had ample time to do so and for some reason choose not to, for whatever reason. If it were my wife, charges would've been filed the next day. It wouldn't take me seven months to talk to someone.
Yes I read the article -

Guerin later advised Mr. Skalde that the Penguins were terminating Mr. Donatelli’s employment, but instructed [Jarrod] that knowledge of the incident and termination had to be suppressed, cautioning that it ‘has to stay quiet and can’t be let out,’” the lawsuit says.

That doesn't say what you're claiming it does.

Hopefully the Skarde's are full of shit and just looking for a payday, but if what they're claiming is true, then the Penguins f***ed up in a big way.
 

MuckOG

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Yes I read the article -

Guerin later advised Mr. Skalde that the Penguins were terminating Mr. Donatelli’s employment, but instructed [Jarrod] that knowledge of the incident and termination had to be suppressed, cautioning that it ‘has to stay quiet and can’t be let out,’” the lawsuit says.

That doesn't say what you're claiming it does.

Hopefully the Skarde's are full of shit and just looking for a payday, but if what they're claiming is true, then the Penguins f***ed up in a big way.

It ABSOLUTELY says what I claim it does.

At that point (and still today), this whole issue was an internal personnel matter. Most companies today have a policy about not publicly commenting on internal personnel issues. This is SOP, everywhere.

Another thing, the language that you bolded was provided by the plaintfill's attorney who is hoping to win a monetary judgement for wrongful termination (for which BG had nothing to do with). We can't even be certain that those were the exact words that BG used. They are only alleging that he said that....that doesn't mean its true.
 

2Pair

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And it can also be argued that they weren't too interested in doing so since they let 7 (I think) months lapse before bringing it to the organization's attention.
It sure could. The problem is that "public opinion" isn't going to hold it against the wife if she doesn't want to seek criminal charges. It will most definitely have a problem with the Penguins trying to keep it quiet.
 

Dr Jan Itor

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We’re all going to take what we want out the article, but it’s all assumptions.

I believe the victim was assaulted. I don’t believe that they were thwarted from telling the authorities. I believe that they were probably told not to openly discuss the matter. I don’t believe that it’s the reason the the “whistleblower” was fires.

Until more facts come to light, as far as Guerin’s involvement, meh.
 

grN1g

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Guerin did act. Within a week of finding out, he canned the coach. There was no criminal complaint, so this is really just a personnel matter. And I can't think of a business that would want to publicize in house personnel matters. That's just how the real world operates.

The assistant coach and his wife should've filed a criminal complaint. At that point, it becomes public knowledge.



Who said he wasn't in communication with the owners?
Nobody but the article doesn't name anyone above BG who would certainly have knowledge and likely input on how to handle it. It simply implies two people had the knowledge and handled it on their own, Or atleast face value. They leave the room for the obvious without saying it.

Just saying there's no world where BG is keeping this hush from people above and rouge handling the situation.
 

ThatGuy22

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We’re all going to take what we want out the article, but it’s all assumptions.

I believe the victim was assaulted. I don’t believe that they were thwarted from telling the authorities. I believe that they were probably told not to openly discuss the matter. I don’t believe that it’s the reason the the “whistleblower” was fires.

Until more facts come to light, as far as Guerin’s involvement, meh.

Your second paragraph is more or less where I'm at, with the addition of I can see BG talking to Skaldes as a former NHLer to NHLer and not using the precise language a situation like this should call for from an executive.
 

pfunk

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There is no point in trying to lay blame at anyones feet right now. We have such little information to go on and limited quotes that don’t have anywhere near enough context to know what the heck went down. How anyone can believe that it seems likely Guerin loses his job over this is mind boggling to me, but certainly fits with todays way of doing things. The pendulum is swinging in the other direction on some of these issues and folks end up guilty until proven innocent because of it.
 

thestonedkoala

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It's possible Donatelli resigned while their investigation into it was on going, before being given a chance to be fired.

Be interesting to see if he was 'terminated' or if he actually resigned.

It is extremely common to ask for someone's resignation, with the understanding being that if they don't, they'll be fired.

Right, but again it's all about optics. Having your head coach resign from your AHL team for personal reasons (and quietly at that) vs being fired is huge. I mean again look at the Dallas Stars; if Montgomery had resigned, it probably would have made a bit of an impact as fans would wonder what happened. But the Stars fired him (for alcohol related issues nonetheless), which was bigger than Montgomery resigning. Furthermore, it makes it seem that it was Donatelli's decision to leave and not the Penguins.

Regardless, the issue isn't necessary what Guerin didn't do or what he did do; it's what he knew? The most damning thing in that article is this:

“The Penguins were fully aware of this conduct, and that it put others, especially women, at high risk of being sexually assaulted by him, but continued to tolerate it and took no action to protect employees, family members or others who came in contact with Donatelli through his powerful position as a head coach for the Penguins,” the lawsuit says.

If Guerin knew about this and swept it under the rug - he should be fired. There is no excuse for putting other employees at risk for harassment for the sake of winning. Out of everything, I think this is the most believable. The question is, did the leadership (Rutherford, Lemieux) make Guerin aware of his head coach's behavior and didn't tell him or did they tell him and Guerin ignored it? And it makes you wonder if there were other complaints that they ignored.
 
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MuckOG

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Does anyone else kind of see the irony in this? For a fan base that cheers Norm Green sucks, they now have a guy caught up in a similar lawsuit and it'll be interesting to see what shakes out of this, because my gut says Guerin, Rutherford and others knew about Donatelli and his behavior but didn't care until they realized how bad of a look this is.

How are these two cases even REMOTELY similar? Norm Green, himself, was accused of sexual harassment. Guerin was told about an employee's conduct and got rid of him within a weeks time. How can you even compare the two?

Regardless, the issue isn't necessary what Guerin didn't do or what he did do; it's what he knew? The most damning thing in that article is this:


“The Penguins were fully aware of this conduct, and that it put others, especially women, at high risk of being sexually assaulted by him, but continued to tolerate it and took no action to protect employees, family members or others who came in contact with Donatelli through his powerful position as a head coach for the Penguins,” the lawsuit says.
You need to remember that this is the allegation from the attorney of the plaintiff who is suing for monetary damages. Not because the Penguins ignored his sexual harassment complaint, but they are saying that he was fired for coming forward.

Guerin wasn't even with the organization when Skalde was let go. And his case has no merit, because all the Asst Coaches with the AHL team were let go, with no positions filled as yet.
 

TaLoN

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How are these two cases even REMOTELY similar? Norm Green, himself, was accused of sexual harassment. Guerin was told about an employee's conduct and got rid of him within a weeks time. How can you even compare the two?






You need to remember that this is the allegation from the attorney of the plaintiff who is suing for monetary damages. Not because the Penguins ignored his sexual harassment complaint, but they are saying that he was fired for coming forward.

Guerin wasn't even with the organization when Skalde was let go. And his case has no merit, because all the Asst Coaches with the AHL team were let go, with no positions filled as yet.​
No correlation what so ever with the Norm Green situation.
 

thestonedkoala

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How are these two cases even REMOTELY similar? Norm Green, himself, was accused of sexual harassment. Guerin was told about an employee's conduct and got rid of him within a weeks time. How can you even compare the two?

Sexual harassment is still sexual harassment. If Guerin stood by while this happened, he's just as culpable. I also deleted it, because I don't want to go down that road.

You need to remember that this is the allegation from the attorney of the plaintiff who is suing for monetary damages. Not because the Penguins ignored his sexual harassment complaint, but they are saying that he was fired for coming forward.

So, we're going to ignore the potential allegations here because it seems like this lawsuit is shady? Regardless of Skalde was fired justly or not, they need to investigate Donatelli's behavior within the organization and these allegations. If Guerin knew that this was going on and ignored them, he is just as guilty and needs to be removed from his position. But they need to do a thorough investigation of what happened and if there were more incidences. Predators like Donatelli don't just suddenly wake up and go, hey I'm going to start sexually harassing my fellow employees. Look at guys like Cosby and Weinstein; the rumors were always there.

Guerin wasn't even with the organization when Skalde was let go. And his case has no merit, because all the Asst Coaches with the AHL team were let go, with no positions filled as yet.

So, because Skalde's case has no merit, they shouldn't conduct an investigation into potential wrongdoings by the organization?

That's like saying, they shouldn't investigate someone for embezzling millions of dollars from a company, because the accuser was also caught stealing from the register.

Regardless if this lawsuit has merits or not, the NHL and outside investigators need to do a thorough investigation so that when an actual legitimate case does pop up, it isn't shouted down.
 

Minnesnota

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I can't believe I came back to this thread. Big fat nothing-burger.

Bill Guerin did nothing wrong. He handled the situation exactly as he should've handled it.

He was made aware of the incident, reported to higher ups, fired the person responsible. The end.

This is a back-pocket special by the Skadle's.

Sexual harassment is still sexual harassment. If Guerin stood by while this happened, he's just as culpable. I also deleted it, because I don't want to go down that road.



So, we're going to ignore the potential allegations here because it seems like this lawsuit is shady? Regardless of Skalde was fired justly or not, they need to investigate Donatelli's behavior within the organization and these allegations. If Guerin knew that this was going on and ignored them, he is just as guilty and needs to be removed from his position. But they need to do a thorough investigation of what happened and if there were more incidences. Predators like Donatelli don't just suddenly wake up and go, hey I'm going to start sexually harassing my fellow employees. Look at guys like Cosby and Weinstein; the rumors were always there.



So, because Skalde's case has no merit, they shouldn't conduct an investigation into potential wrongdoings by the organization?

That's like saying, they shouldn't investigate someone for embezzling millions of dollars from a company, because the accuser was also caught stealing from the register.

Regardless if this lawsuit has merits or not, the NHL and outside investigators need to do a thorough investigation so that when an actual legitimate case does pop up, it isn't shouted down.
None of these things happened.

Are you intentionally misrepresenting the events as they have clearly been described? Where did Guerin "stand by" while this happened? Where is this "legitimate case" being shouted down?

I'm trying REALLY hard not to lob insults about anyone's intelligence here but some of you guys make it damn difficult.
 
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thestonedkoala

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Bill Guerin did nothing wrong. He handled the situation exactly as he should've handled it.

While he may not have done anything wrong with this situation, there are a lot of unanswered questions about Donatelli and his relation with the organization. How much did they know? How much did they sweep under the rug?

I think a lot of fans are caught up in the fact that Guerin didn't do anything wrong with this particular situation, and are focusing in on that, but are ignoring the elephant in the room and that's what did Rutherford and the Penguins know? What did Guerin know about Donatelli? He was with the organization for 8 years before he was 'terminated'. There are a LOT of people they can interview and they should.

Again, just because Guerin handled this situation correctly, doesn't mean he handled the overall situation correctly.

None of these things happened.

Are you intentionally misrepresenting the events as they have clearly been described? Where did Guerin "stand by" while this happened? Where is this "legitimate case" being shouted down?

I'm trying REALLY hard not to lob insults about anyone's intelligence here but some of you guys make it damn difficult.

Are you ignoring the other accusation that the lawyer brought up that the NHL should look into?

The Skaldes also allege in their 22-page claim that they learned of “countless other episodes of inappropriate conduct by Mr. Donatelli, sexual and otherwise, which apparently the Penguins were aware of but did little or nothing to stop. Donatelli’s misconduct… was well-known by the Penguins management, but tolerated because he was a successful coach.”

This is a pretty damning accusation that needs to be followed up on. Donatelli was with the organization for 8 years. If there were other incidences that the Penguins were made aware of, there should be some evidence of that. If there are 'countless' other episodes, then they should be able to provide proof.

Guerin was with the team for 4 years and the head of the AHL while Donatelli was the head coach for those years. That is what I'm looking at. Regardless if the lawsuit is a a sham or not, this is pretty damning accusation that needs to be vetted thoroughly and not swept under the rug.

I mean, are we going to ignore all the hazing issues that the CHL has encountered because Steve Downie is a terrible person?
 
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Dr Jan Itor

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So, we're going to ignore the potential allegations here because it seems like this lawsuit is shady? Regardless of Skalde was fired justly or not, they need to investigate Donatelli's behavior within the organization and these allegations. If Guerin knew that this was going on and ignored them, he is just as guilty and needs to be removed from his position. But they need to do a thorough investigation of what happened and if there were more incidences. Predators like Donatelli don't just suddenly wake up and go, hey I'm going to start sexually harassing my fellow employees. Look at guys like Cosby and Weinstein; the rumors were always there.

You don't ignore the allegations, but you don't treat the article as Gospel either.
 
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Minnesnota

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While he may not have done anything wrong with this situation, there are a lot of unanswered questions about Donatelli and his relation with the organization. How much did they know? How much did they sweep under the rug?

I think a lot of fans are caught up in the fact that Guerin didn't do anything wrong with this particular situation, and are focusing in on that, but are ignoring the elephant in the room and that's what did Rutherford and the Penguins know? What did Guerin know about Donatelli? He was with the organization for 8 years before he was 'terminated'. There are a LOT of people they can interview and they should.

Again, just because Guerin handled this situation correctly, doesn't mean he handled the overall situation correctly.
I'll bite.

If Guerin was aware of past accusations against Donatelli, what makes you think the alleged sexual assault against Mrs. Skadle was the straw that broke the camels back?

This entire situation was handled by the book. Company was made aware, company promptly removed person responsible, case closed. If the Skadle's had additional grievances they should've raised those with the Providence, RI police department where the alleged assault happened.

Ask yourself why they didn't. I'll help you, it's not because Guerin told them to keep quiet on personnel matters.
 

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