News Article: GM Search: Pens and Hextall could reach a handshake agreement as soon as today, per Seravelli

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KIRK

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Been saying that part about the cap hits for years. Every guy JR spends a million or so too much on adds up eventually, and chips away at any sort of cap structure or plan down the road. Then you go and land a huge question mark in Matheson who makes almost $5 million until the end of time--yeesh.

We had the same debate about Shero contracts. In a bubble, pretty much without exception, they were 'what the market dictated'. But, when you put together the collage of 'what the market dictated' deals, there were two big flaws:

1. The mix of players you ended up with.

2. The paucity of young impact players on cheap contracts (after the cups, 2nd or 3rd deals hit)
 
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KIRK

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Honestly, I think Matheson is less of a problem right now than the bottom 6. :laugh:

There's nothing wrong with Mike Matheson and his cap hit that Brian Burke and a baseball bat couldn't fix. :D

That said, you can sit Matheson and, as guys get healthy, ride your top 4 and sprinkle in a nondescript 3rd pair. There's no similar fix for the bad players in the bottom 6, because you only have bad players to replace them.
 

HandshakeLine

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We had the same debate about Shero contracts. In a bubble, pretty much without exception, they were 'what the market dictated'. But, when you put together the collage of 'what the market dictated' deals, there were two big flaws:

1. The mix of players you ended up with.

2. The paucity of young impact players on cheap contracts (after the cups, 2nd or 3rd deals hit)

I feel this is sort of a problem that lots of contending teams end up with in the cap era. But the 1st is totally avoidable simply because those are at the GM's discretion-- take our favorite, Rodrigues. Who we not only did not use the first time, but actively went after a few weeks later because the coach thought he would be a goal scorer! Who he did not play when he had him!
 

Big Friggin Dummy

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Honestly, I think Matheson is less of a problem right now than the bottom 6. :laugh:
It's less Matheson specifically and more the entirety of the blueline. Even healthy, there's really no semblance of offensive ability beyond Letang, and certainly not enough defensive ability to make up for it.

I'm not sure what to make of the forwards. I think a McCann-TB-Kapanen 3rd line would be awesome (specifically the 3C and 3RW), but that takes a guy out of an already iffy top-6. I don't really give a shit what mix of 4th liners we end up with, to be honest. Just pick a group of guys who isn't going to flat-out kill you every time they hop over the boards. We've got no Cullen to use as a driving force/matchup issue.
 

KIRK

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I feel this is sort of a problem that lots of contending teams end up with in the cap era. But the 1st is totally avoidable simply because those are at the GM's discretion-- take our favorite, Rodrigues. Who we not only did not use the first time, but actively went after a few weeks later because the coach thought he would be a goal scorer! Who he did not play when he had him!

True, but I was thinking more along the lines of Rust, Sheary, etc in 2016, then Jake in 2017. Cheap players making impacts in various roles, but beyond that young people who's energy and enthusiasm was infectious.
 

HandshakeLine

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There's nothing wrong with Mike Matheson and his cap hit that Brian Burke and a baseball bat couldn't fix. :D

That said, you can sit Matheson and, as guys get healthy, ride your top 4 and sprinkle in a nondescript 3rd pair. There's no similar fix for the bad players in the bottom 6, because you only have bad players to replace them.

This is the crux of it, KIRK. We complain that we have no good top 6 forward depth, but we also have no bottom 6 depth, despite having a surplus of guys who can almost hack it. That's what the problem with the speed/skill build is right now-- there's no scoring depth and no momentum gained from the bottom 6 because they're ineffectual and turn the puck over with alarming frequency.
 
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Big Friggin Dummy

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In any event, I think the team is going to sit back and watch how things play out for the rest of the season before doing anything significant. I imagine we'll make the playoffs, get knocked out in the 1st round, Sully's fired, we decide once and for all what to do with Letang (and likely move him), and we start to reshuffle things big time heading into next season.
 

KIRK

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This is the crux of it, KIRK. We complain that we have no good top 6 forward depth, but we also have no bottom 6 depth, despite having a surplus of guys who can almost hack it. That's what the problem with the speed/skill build is right now-- there's no scoring depth and no momentum gained from the bottom 6 because they're ineffectual and turn the puck over with alarming frequency.

I also think this team is too soft at this point (part of the greater 'the mix sucks' issue).

You don't need to be goon central, but when even a kool aid drinker like Steigy says on NHL radio (and the Steigy radio version, like the Pierre radio version, is an intelligent contrast to the TV clown version) says the team is too soft, there may be something to it.
 

HandshakeLine

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True, but I was thinking more along the lines of Rust, Sheary, etc in 2016, then Jake in 2017. Cheap players making impacts in various roles, but beyond that young people who's energy and enthusiasm was infectious.

Which also comes down to coaching too. Maybe there are better options in WB/S? Maybe O'Connor could bring a spark to the 4th? We'll never know unless a vet gets injured, though. So, we're stuck with vets who are barely competant, badly playing hockey nobody on the team seems to like (and we don't seem to want to watch), and we're just spinning the drain.

The upside to that sort of thing, I think, is that it only takes a few personnel moves to change that atmosphere as we've seen before. But the coaches have to be receptive to it, and we need to have players that we can put faith in. Same with the blueline-- I like that they're giving POJ some good looks, but I fear (based on past practice) that his last few f***-ups will have him sitting in the owner's box instead of letting him play through it. Kid's a hard worker! Give him a taste! :laugh:
 
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SEALBound

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Yea that was a huge problem this off season. People fell for the whole we got younger and faster, and ignored the quality and skills of these guys. Speed and youth are great but not if the player(s) suck.

It doesn't matter who they signed this off season, you still would have pissed and moaned about it.

Honestly, I think Matheson is less of a problem right now than the bottom 6. :laugh:

Given the 1-9 of the defense right now, I agree. When fully healthy, I think our defense can still be quite good.

Dumo-Letang
POJ-Marino
Pettersson-Rudwedel

or something like that. It sits Matheson, Ceci, and unfortunately Riikola but as of now, based on merit, that 6 above have been out best players.

That said, Matheson is still a damn good skater, and watching him willing to skate the puck and shoot while at the point, is actually refreshing at times.

Bottom 6 though...yikes. This is where I do think we can make some swaps with other teams and their similar players based on who is available. Like McCann for Bennett is something I would be exploring. I'm not entirely sure how we make it all happen but he's an example of a player that could pay off spades in the playoffs if he can develop some good chemistry.

I really, REALLY wish would have left Poulin and/or Legare on the roster as an extra.

Jake-Sid-Rust
XXX-Malkin-Kappy
Zucker-Bennett-Tanev
ZAR-Bleuger-DOC

Something like that...
 

KIRK

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@HandshakeLine . . . once again, though, I don't see how a GM does anything but the most minor tinkering before making a decision on the coach. You need to know what players are part of a solution and what ones aren't. The only way you'll know that is once you see them playing for YOUR coach. Ergo, unless you're 100% all in with respect to the speed game Sullivan wants to play (or you believe, despite the lack of evidence, that he can adapt the way say Trotz adapted on the fly late in 2018 in Washington), how do you justify making a significant personnel move based on what doesn't work right now with this coach?
 
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