News Article: GM Search: Pens and Hextall could reach a handshake agreement as soon as today, per Seravelli

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EightyOne

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Nov 23, 2016
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I mean... In a way... If the ENTIRE league copied the pens speed strat...


... Why not go bruiser strat on the league now?

Lol
 

Big Friggin Dummy

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I mean... In a way... If the ENTIRE league copied the pens speed strat...


... Why not go bruiser strat on the league now?

Lol
I'm assuming this is devil's advocate, but I'll bite. Bruisers tend to be slow and ineffective against speed and skill. They chase those guys around all game looking for the big hit or whatever when they just get embarrassed up and down the ice. Unless you're able to find multiple guys like Tom Wilson who can skate, have skill, and are bruisers, you're outta luck.
 
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HandshakeLine

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I'm assuming this is devil's advocate, but I'll bite. Bruisers tend to be slow and ineffective against speed and skill. They chase those guys around all game looking for the big hit or whatever when they just get embarrassed up and down the ice. Unless you're able to find multiple guys like Tom Wilson who can skate, have skill, and are bruisers, you're outta luck.

On the other hand, we have tons of dudes who can fly who are just not effective. I feel like the Pens' MO has been to go hard on speed under Sully but to ignore skill wherever possible.

Neither are good strategies. So, I wouldn't mind us moving away from the guys who are fast but little else.
 

DesertedPenguin

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Are we assuming that Hextall can't adapt (or perhaps that he didn't adapt his approach in Philly to what he thought was appropriate given where the team was at that time)?

We're actually on the same page with Burke as GM. I just think he's a legit team president. As long as he's the latter and not the former and this is more about him being a buffer for Hextall, then I'm okay-ish with it
My impression is that Burke will be the one dealing with Morehouse when it comes to getting financial approval to do things and that he will be the one retooling the scouting, drafting, and analytics departments. He got praise for fleshing out Calgary's front office with more resources, and multiple reports have said that's a priority for the Penguins.

Hextall will handle day-to-day player evaluation, management, etc. How's the team look? How's the AHL team look? Who might be worth moving out? Who might be worth bringing in? He and Burke will formulate a plan to target certain types of players, both NHL-ready and to develop via the draft. He and Burke will collaborate on the style of play. And then Hextall can focus on the minutiae hockey stuff while Burke takes a big picture look.
 
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KIRK

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My impression is that Burke will be the one dealing with Morehouse when it comes to getting financial approval to do things and that he will be the one retooling the scouting, drafting, and analytics departments. He got praise for fleshing out Calgary's front office with more resources, and multiple reports have said that's a priority for the Penguins.

Hextall will handle day-to-day player evaluation, management, etc. How's the team look? How's the AHL team look? Who might be worth moving out? Who might be worth bringing in? He and Burke will formulate a plan to target certain types of players, both NHL-ready and to develop via the draft. He and Burke will collaborate on the style of play. And then Hextall can focus on the minutiae hockey stuff while Burke takes a big picture look.

Almost like the Penguins have decided to enter the 21st century from an organizational standpoint . . . :popcorn:
 

HandshakeLine

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Hextall will handle day-to-day player evaluation, management, etc. How's the team look? How's the AHL team look? Who might be worth moving out? Who might be worth bringing in? He and Burke will formulate a plan to target certain types of players, both NHL-ready and to develop via the draft. He and Burke will collaborate on the style of play. And then Hextall can focus on the minutiae hockey stuff while Burke takes a big picture look.

This is an important point, I think. One of the weird things about the last few seasons has been simultaneously the FO's focus on analytics and data driven hockey, and then the absolute lack of concern for on-ice performance. I'm not hating on advanced stats, they are definitely evolving and providing us with some useful analytical tools, but at the same time, it's been clear to almost any outside observer that these data-driven decisions just were not producing results and over multiple seasons.

My hope is that Burke will sort of act as a more impartial observer there who can identify when the data might seem correct but the results just aren't there, which JR just didn't seem to do.
 
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Mr Jiggyfly

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My impression is that Burke will be the one dealing with Morehouse when it comes to getting financial approval to do things and that he will be the one retooling the scouting, drafting, and analytics departments. He got praise for fleshing out Calgary's front office with more resources, and multiple reports have said that's a priority for the Penguins.

Hextall will handle day-to-day player evaluation, management, etc. How's the team look? How's the AHL team look? Who might be worth moving out? Who might be worth bringing in? He and Burke will formulate a plan to target certain types of players, both NHL-ready and to develop via the draft. He and Burke will collaborate on the style of play. And then Hextall can focus on the minutiae hockey stuff while Burke takes a big picture look.

I highly suspect Burke is going to have a lot of say in how this roster is reshaped and how it plays.

He will basically tell Lemieux and Burkle they need to change shit up and play time is over - he doesn’t mess around like that and play games.

So from that standpoint it’s a good thing as this org needs an intervention like that... too much delusional thinking that Burke won’t partake in.

The flip side is his vision may wreck things further, so there is good and bad here I suppose.
 

KIRK

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I highly suspect Burke is going to have a lot of say in how this roster is reshaped and how it plays.

He will basically tell Lemieux and Burkle they need to change shit up and play time is over - he doesn’t mess around like that and play games.

So from that standpoint it’s a good thing as this org needs an intervention like that... too much delusional thinking that Burke won’t partake in.

The flip side is his vision may wreck things further, so there is good and bad here I suppose.

Oh, Burke certainly will opine as part of the group talk on direction. BUT, I think the implementation gets left to Hextall.

That said, when Burke fires Hextall and assumes the role of GM too, then I'll dial the panic meter about Burke from about a 3 to an 11.
 

Big Friggin Dummy

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I don't think Burke can f*** things up worse than JR has in recent years. I'm not exactly optimistic about Burke as a visionary, but JR really just went ballistic for years after (well, shortly before) winning that 2nd of back to back Cups. Complete lunacy.

And even if Burke wasn't an improvement, Hextall seems like he's got a really good head on his shoulders and would act as the pushback.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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Oh, Burke certainly will opine as part of the group talk on direction. BUT, I think the implementation gets left to Hextall.

That said, when Burke fires Hextall and assumes the role of GM too, then I'll dial the panic meter about Burke from about a 3 to an 11.

I have my doubts Burke won’t meddle, but I guess if he gets Lemieux and Burkle to see the truth, having him around won’t be that bad.
 
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Dennis Reynolds

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I don't think Burke can f*** things up worse than JR has in recent years. I'm not exactly optimistic about Burke as a visionary, but JR really just went ballistic for years after (well, shortly before) winning that 2nd of back to back Cups. Complete lunacy.

And even if Burke wasn't an improvement, Hextall seems like he's got a really good head on his shoulders and would act as the pushback.
Just the fact that this is a real post on a Penguins message board is crazy. What a bizarre day. 1990's me is so confused.
 

Pens x

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On the other hand, we have tons of dudes who can fly who are just not effective. I feel like the Pens' MO has been to go hard on speed under Sully but to ignore skill wherever possible.

Neither are good strategies. So, I wouldn't mind us moving away from the guys who are fast but little else.
Yea that was a huge problem this off season. People fell for the whole we got younger and faster, and ignored the quality and skills of these guys. Speed and youth are great but not if the player(s) suck.
 

66-30-33

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I don't think Burke can f*** things up worse than JR has in recent years. I'm not exactly optimistic about Burke as a visionary, but JR really just went ballistic for years after (well, shortly before) winning that 2nd of back to back Cups. Complete lunacy.

And even if Burke wasn't an improvement, Hextall seems like he's got a really good head on his shoulders and would act as the pushback.
He went downhill since Botts left for the Sabres, just like Sully went downhill since Tocchet left for Arizona.
 
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KIRK

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I have my doubts Burke won’t meddle, but I guess if he gets Lemieux and Burkle to see the truth, having him around won’t be that bad.

I think we both know the benefit and potential drawback aren't mutually exclusive. :laugh:

The thing that interests me most is the game plan for the rest of the season.

To hear Friendman tell it on NHL Network, the assumption is that they'll pretty much stand pat and not do anything significant until the end of the season, but that just doesn't add up for me.
 

66-30-33

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I think we both know the benefit and potential drawback aren't mutually exclusive. :laugh:

The thing that interests me most is the game plan for the rest of the season.

To hear Friendman tell it on NHL Network, the assumption is that they'll pretty much stand pat and not do anything significant until the end of the season, but that just doesn't add up for me.
That's because you're used to JR's way of being aggressive. We will be less aggressive and probably wont fix our mistakes like JR did.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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Yea that was a huge problem this off season. People fell for the whole we got younger and faster, and ignored the quality and skills of these guys. Speed and youth are great but not if the player(s) suck.

Who did they add that is fast and young outside of KK, who is actually doing quite well?

Jank is slow, the guy whose name I don’t want to learn to spell from Florida is pedestrian speed... Matheson is a good skater but he isn’t some burner.

KK’s speed has made a difference, but he was the only guy brought in who really fits the ‘fast and young’ mold.
 

KIRK

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That's because you're used to JR's way of being aggressive. We will be less aggressive and probably wont fix our mistakes like JR did.

No, it has nothing to do with JR. It has to do with the idea that you're going to try to win now but supposedly aren't going to make any kind of significant move even if you think it's necessary after taking stock.
 

KIRK

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Who did they add that is fast and young outside of KK, who is doing quite well?

Jank is slow, the guy whose name I don’t want to learn to spell from Florida is pedestrian speed... Matheson is a good skater but he isn’t some burner.

KK’s speed has made a difference, but he was the only guy brought in who really fits the ‘fast and young’ mold.

Why I said earlier that I had a bridge in Brooklyn to sell anyone who was buying the bullshit JR was babbling over the last few months . . .

Rutherford's 'plan' was to throw shit at a wall hoping enough things stuck and in the interim to provide so post hoc rationale for the moves.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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Why I said earlier that I had a bridge in Brooklyn to sell anyone who was buying the bullshit JR was babbling over the last few months . . .

Rutherford's 'plan' was to throw shit at a wall hoping enough things stuck and in the interim to provide so post hoc rationale for the moves.

He had the right ideas... get younger and faster... add a big name in FA to help them this summer...

But he wasn’t exactly building from his blueprint in an ideal way.
 

HandshakeLine

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Who did they add that is fast and young outside of KK, who is actually doing quite well?

Jank is slow, the guy whose name I don’t want to learn to spell from Florida is pedestrian speed... Matheson is a good skater but he isn’t some burner.

KK’s speed has made a difference, but he was the only guy brought in who really fits the ‘fast and young’ mold.

Lafferty (though he isn't really an add), Rodrigues, Tanev, and McCann also come to mind. I think if we had 1 more KK-type player, then it'd be a different conversation. Really, it's a problem with the construction of the bottom 6 more than the top 6 which is okay, but just not firing on all cylinders at the moment for whatever reason.
 

KIRK

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He had the right ideas... get younger and faster... add a big name in FA to help them this summer...

But he wasn’t exactly building from his blueprint in an ideal way.

Just reminds me too much of him talking about analytics and then adding Jack Johnson and then Mike Matheson.
 

KIRK

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Lafferty (though he isn't really an add), Rodrigues, and McCann also come to mind. I think if we had 1 more KK-type player, then it'd be a different conversation. Really, it's a problem with the construction of the bottom 6 more than the top 6 which is okay, but just not firing on all cylinders at the moment for whatever reason.

Yeah, but Lafferty sucks. So does Rodrigues (even though we're not allowed to say that in some circles). And that 3M for McCann, like the 4M for Pets, is straight out of the JR 'give him market price with no thought as to fit or the overall cap implications' approach.
 
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HandshakeLine

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Again, I'd be fine with Laf as the 13th forward, probably, but it's the usage again. We've got 5 guys that should be 13th forward who all kind of play the same role, and there's just no real reason to have them.
 
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Big Friggin Dummy

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Yeah, but Lafferty sucks. So does Rodrigues (even though we're not allowed to say that in some circles). And that 3M for McCann, like the 4M for Pets, is straight out of the JR 'give him market price with no thought as to fit or the overall cap implications' approach.
Been saying that part about the cap hits for years. Every guy JR spends a million or so too much on adds up eventually, and chips away at any sort of cap structure or plan down the road. Then you go and land a huge question mark in Matheson who makes almost $5 million until the end of time--yeesh.
 
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