GM Ron Hextall (part 2)

[BrindamoursNose]

As I said, my thoughts changed when the term & AAV were announced.

Well based on the thread, the term and AAV had been announced by that point.

 

[Jettany]

When did we find that out? News to me.

If I can find it I’ll post. It was part of an article or tweet discussing transitioning holmgren to Hextall as gm. It was posted and discussed here after the firing up till this summer. Can’t really remember.

 

[Jettany]

As far as your comments, you were fairly neutral in the signing thread about his salary or term. You just agreed he was an upgrade. Perhaps you voiced it elsewhere or once the season began, but I don't want to spend all day researching a random opinion so here's what I've got.





For the general HF opinions, this thread is generally more in-favor of the signing than against it:
Confirmed Signing with Link: - [PHI] Dale Weise (4 Years, $2.35M AAV)

So I'll re-phrase...

At the time, it was generally considered a good signing rather than a bad signing.

But it wasn’t a good signing. That’s the point. We as flyer fans and especially Hextall fans wanted to see the best and as long as the purge and asset building was happening these mistakes were overlooked.

Now looking back at it with an open mind there were more mistakes than I wanted to admit with his pro player signing and evaluations.

Blame hakstol for using the players but our boy hexy gave him the opportunity to use those broken, ratty toys.

 

[deadhead]

Weise didn't look bad at the time, he signed for 3rd line money at an age where he had a good chance of playing out his contract. It's not like $2.35M a year is going to make or break a team. And we were certainly needed both size and depth.

Sometimes things don't work out, see Lucic.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Well based on the thread, the term and AAV had been announced by that point.

It hadn’t. When the term & AAV were announced I said I didn’t like either. It was much more than I was expecting.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

It hadn’t. When the term & AAV were announced I said I didn’t like either. It was much more than I was expecting.

Again, based on the thread (link below) it seems it was announced already (since you commented after some had already commented about the AAV and term)

Confirmed with Link: - Flyers sign Dale Weise 4 x $2.35

 

[GKJ]

One problem with Weise is he didn't get the opportunities he got in Montreal. He was paid for a role that he wasn't going to have here.

I think that went a long way into making Hextall gunshy though. One of the things I remember the town hall from his last year was that he believed players needed to be dyed-in-wool, or something to that effect. Doing do much work to get out of cap trouble, I think he was scared to get back into it, and he absolutely did not want to have to go outside the organization if he didn't have to because he didn't want to get caught with guys passing through for the paycheck.

 

[rinaldo]

Ronald was also a tyrant. Had the assistant coach be a rat on the head coach. When he hired Hakstol he should have hired quality experienced assistants to help him. He didnt as he needed his eyes and ears in the lockeroom.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Again, based on the thread (link below) it seems it was announced already (since you commented after some had already commented about the AAV and term)

Confirmed with Link: - Flyers sign Dale Weise 4 x $2.35

There was wayyyy more discussion about the Weise signing than just that thread. And I made it clear that while I thought he was a one-for-one upgrade over White’s roster spot, I did not like the term & AAV.

 

[rinaldo]

There was wayyyy more discussion about the Weise signing than just that thread. And I made it clear that while I thought he was a one-for-one upgrade over White’s roster spot, I did not like the term & AAV.

guys like him get 1 maybe 2 year deals. 4 was laughable

 

[Ghosts Beer]

guys like him get 1 maybe 2 year deals. 4 was laughable

Exactly. I was stunned. Assumed it would be one or two at $1.5m.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

@BrindamoursNose

Read this thread when Weise’s terms were divulged: Flyers Off-Season Discussion: Flyers sign Dale Weise and Boyd Gordon

Me: “Weise? Meh. Works hard but I think he's a little overrated. I guess if they aren't going to sign Ryan White. But something tells me he's going to get too much $$ for a guy who isn't far off from Vandevelde and Bellemare and would probably play on that line.”
—-
Me: “

Weise for 4 years, $2.5M cap hit per year is a poor use of cap space, IMO.

Falling in love with a "heavy" checking line player who happened to score a few clutch playoff goals when he was younger and cheaper.

Sort of like the Talbot signing, who ultimately ended up being a buyout after they managed to dump him.”​

—-
Me: “Those guys are a dime a dozen. Weise isn't far off from being an 8 minute per game player or AHLer.

I simply do not believe Weise is worth $2.5M per year when you've got guys like Colin McDonald at $800k.

Don't get me wrong. Weise is likeable and I'd much rather have guys like Weise in the lineup than Matt Read.

But I don't understand paying bottom line players $2.5M per year.”
—-
orangecrush8: “2.35 million for 4 years Not a fan.”
—-
SuchySays: “2.35 wtf”
—-
Me: “Colin McDonald's career NHL points per game is 0.31.

Dale Weise's career NHL points per game is 0.26.

My point is a player like Weise earns a name with a few "clutch" playoff goals when he was younger and cheaper, and now suddenly he's getting $2.5M/per for 4 years and a player like McDonald is in the AHL, when the difference between them is very small.

Weise has had two decent scoring years for a bottom 6 winger the last two seasons, but he's very close to being a 10 min or under player. He had an unsustainable streak of scoring luck last season where he scored on a ridiculous percentage of shots, then came back down to Earth when moved to Chicago and also wasn't getting the luxury of playing on a 2nd line where he really shouldn't play for any length of time.”
—-
kelmitchell: “No, please no, not 4 years, that's entirely too long, not please, I really hope the cap hit is under 2 per.”
—-

 

[deadhead]

2016 FAs
Troy Brouwer 4yr/$18M - 10, 16, 20, 1 ES points the last four seasons
Jamie McGinn 3yr/$10M - 15, 23, 6 ES points
Dale Weise 4y/$9.4M - 13, 8, 10, 4
Matt Martin 4yr/$10M - 9, 12, 14, 8

 

[tucson83]

Trading Schenn for futures was a great move, but if he knew that the team wasn't going into compete mode soon why did he hold onto simmonds when his value was sky high? It feels like he only half commited to the rebuild, and because of it we got pennies on the dollar for simmonds.

Don't even get me started on going into the 2018/2019 season with a goaltending duo of Elliot and Neuvirth.

what makes my blood boiling the most was not trading for ror, keeping hak, not trading for doggie and hextall giving us the big fu to us fans in the season ending press conference after getting embarrassed by the pens.

 

[rinaldo]

Hartnel was a great move....

 

[FLYguy3911]

Not trading for doggie was the turning point.

 

[Curufinwe]

The 10 best Flyers draft picks of the Ron Hextall era

10. Cates
9. Bunnaman
8. Frost
7. NAK
6. Sanheim
5. Farabee
4. Provorov
3. Lindblom
2. Konecny
1. Hart

 

[baudib1]

Any other competent team ditches Hak immediately after the season ends in disgrace. That was the point where I viewed Hextall as an obstacle moving forward, I believe.

Hakstol needed to be fired one month into his second year. Everything after that was a mistake.

 

[Rebels57]

The 10 best Flyers draft picks of the Ron Hextall era

10. Cates
9. Bunnaman
8. Frost
7. NAK
6. Sanheim
5. Farabee
4. Provorov
3. Lindblom
2. Konecny
1. Hart

Frost behind NAK

Bunnaman above Brink

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Frost behind NAK

Bunnaman above Brink

I’m guessing it’s relative to where they were selected. So high picks are going to get dinged some under this thought process. Obviously I think what you have done at the NHL level to this point is being pretty weighed here.

Not saying I necessarily agree with it but that seems to be the logic.

 

[Curufinwe]

Brink was a Fletcher pick, but yeah Charlie had four criteria he ranked each pick on, so it's not just a list of the best players Hextall ever drafted.

If you get The Athletic app I believe you can read two articles a month without a subscription.

3. Oskar Lindblom (2014, fifth round)

 

[Rebels57]

Brink was a Fletcher pick, but yeah Charlie had four criteria he ranked each pick on, so it's not just a list of the best players Hextall ever drafted.

If you get The Athletic app I believe you can read two articles a month without a subscription.

3. Oskar Lindblom (2014, fifth round)

Yep. I'm dumb.

I'll give the article a full read later on.

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

Sanheim being 6 is wrong. I don’t care what method you used getting there.


It’s wrong.

 

[Curufinwe]

Hexy's last 2nd round pick was Ginning.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Not a big fan of the “Should have taken” methodology with hindsight. In the moment? Have at it.

Like NAK for example gets dinged because Victor Arvidsson, who got passed over in three consecutive drafts, gets drafted late and turns out to be a good NHL player. That type is never really going to be an option in the middle of the second round like NAK was.

It also assumes every team is equally as good on the player development side which just isn’t true. Some prospects are just destined to disappoint based on which team drafts them. As another example, Charlie dings Konecny because Cirelli went in the third round. First, Cirelli was never an option at that spot. Second, switch teams and Konecny is probably going to look a lot better playing in Tampa the last 3.5 seasons.

On a side note I got a chuckle out of Charlie giving Provy an 8 in this category when he proceeds to rip off 7 names that would have been viable picks at 7th overall and none of them were named Chabot.