GM Ron Hextall (part 2)

[Curufinwe]

Giroux, Couturier, Voracek, Simmonds, B.Schenn and Gostisbehere is some shell of a roster.

Ghost was 21 when Hexy took over, and he tore his ACL in his first pro season.

The rest of the 14-15 defense were

Streit
Schultz
Del Zotto
Grossmann
MacDonald
Schenn
Coburn (traded at the deadline)

 

[Striiker]

Stopped reading after that. We aren't close to being that miserable lol

Don't worry, I'm just talking about a specific example. Many things are different, but we've run into a familiar issue once again.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Don’t get me wrong, Fletch has been good so far. But the core of this team is mostly Hex era players who he never really got the chance to see bloom into what he was going for.

Fletch walked into an amazing situation. A fanbase starved of success with W young team full of talent that needed a better coach and some vet talent to see it over the line into an amazing team. He’s done both of those quickly and effectively but the anchors of this team predate him.

What players who have been instrumental to the Flyers’ success this season were acquired by Hextall?

JVR is the only one not acquired through the draft or as an undrafted free agent.

I’ll give Hextall credit for Konecny, Provorov, Hart, Sanheim, NAK, & Myers. I give him credit for Lindblom, but he also only played 30 games, so he hasn’t been a core part of the team’s success.

Those are the Hextall players who have been essential to the team’s success this season. We’re talking around 7 guys, almost all first or second round picks. And that’s after 4.5 years at the helm.

Hextall’s management at the NHL level was terrible. In 4.5 years only 2 decent acquisitions: JVR & Gudas. Fletcher surpassed that in around 6 months.

I will give Hextall credit for leaving enough cap room to sign Hayes. But somehow I get the feeling Hextall wouldn’t have made the move to trade for Hayes & lock him down for $7M.

 

[Psuhockey]

Ghost was 21 when Hexy took over, and he tore his ACL in his first pro season.

The rest of the 14-15 defense were

Streit
Schultz
Del Zotto
Grossmann
MacDonald
Schenn
Coburn (traded at the deadline)

To repeat Holmgren did a terrible job with the defense and salary cap. Hextall remedied both but you can’t just say this team is entirely Hextall’s creation. He inherited some good pieces from Holmgren just like Fletcher inherited some good pieces from Hextall.

 

[Beef Invictus]

This team is the work of three GMs. I'm comfortable giving 40-40 credit to Homer/Hex, and 20% to Fletcher at this point.

 

[Curufinwe]

Agree to agree.

 

[Rich Nixon]

What players who have been instrumental to the Flyers’ success this season were acquired by Hextall?

JVR is the only one not acquired through the draft or as an undrafted free agent.

I’ll give Hextall credit for Konecny, Provorov, Hart, Sanheim, NAK, & Myers. I give him credit for Lindblom, but he also only played 30 games, so he hasn’t been a core part of the team’s success.

Those are the Hextall players who have been essential to the team’s success this season. We’re talking around 7 guys, almost all first or second round picks. And that’s after 4.5 years at the helm.

Hextall’s management at the NHL level was terrible. In 4.5 years only 2 decent acquisitions: JVR & Gudas. Fletcher surpassed that in around 6 months.

I will give Hextall credit for leaving enough cap room to sign Hayes. But somehow I get the feeling Hextall wouldn’t have made the move to trade for Hayes & lock him down for $7M.

Hextall would have taken one of the cap dumps this summer for a pick and a prospect. I am almost certain you'd be looking at a partially-retained Subban, Lucic, or Marleau on the roster. Maybe all of them.

 

[Curufinwe]

I dunno, the last cap dump he took was Lehtera in June, 2017.

Which got us Frost and Farabee. Two AHL guys....

Brayden Schenn Trades - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[Beef Invictus]

I do not know about Subban and Lucic, but Marleau feels like a guy he would've gone after.

 

[Curufinwe]

Canes got a 1st for buying out Marleau, then traded it for Skjei.

Thanks for fixing a division rival's upcoming cap problems.

Feb 24, 2020
Carolina Hurricanes Acquire: Brady Skjei	New York Rangers Acquire: 2020 conditional 1st round pick* (CAR) *Conditions: NY Rangers will receive the later (or lower) of either the Carolina or Toronto 2020 1st round picks

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[landsbergfan]

I'm glad he is finally over it but it's a shame that he really doesn't seem to recognize his flaws and what went wrong.

The article was a whole lot of nothing really. I had higher hopes for the athletic writing a piece about it.

As for the rest of today's debate. Hextall will never get the credit he deserves for where the Flyers are at right now. It can be true that they wouldn't be where they are today both with him and without him. It was his steadfast approach to what he thought was a winning team that has us in the position they are in and also is the reason he is gone. It also created all the cap space for Fletcher to go on his spending spree.

I truly believe that based on the development of the young players on the roster, it was only a matter of time before the team became this good. I think there is enough evidence to suggest it wouldn't be as fun as it is right now if he were here though. The coaching is the one thing that I think he gets full negative marks for. Would've loved if he started Knoblauch in the AHL and got an actual NHL coach. Even if they were 2nd place in the Metro with him here, the focus on entertainment from the entire organization seems to be a separate initiative altogether.

This team wasn't a couple good vet signings away from being a contender, it was directly dependent on whether the young prospects started developing at the NHL level and NHL level coaching.

edit: don't want to downplay the importance of having NHL centers either. It is impossible to say what Hextall would've done after finding out about Patrick, but the team wouldn't be where they are at *right now* without Hayes

 

[deadhead]

One reason Fletcher could trade for Niskanen (33) and Braun (32) is because Hextall rebuilt the defense, with four young defensemen (Provorov, Myers, Sanheim and Hagg), and Zamula, Kalynuk, Wylie, Hogberg in the pipeline, you can add a couple short-term pieces without mortgaging the future.

With Farabee, Frost et al in the wings, you can add Pitlick on a one year deal and TDL deals for Grant and Thompson, knowing that they can walk with no consequences to team depth next season.

 

[Tripod]

Don’t get me wrong, Fletch has been good so far. But the core of this team is mostly Hex era players who he never really got the chance to see bloom into what he was going for.

Fletch walked into an amazing situation. A fanbase starved of success with W young team full of talent that needed a better coach and some vet talent to see it over the line into an amazing team. He’s done both of those quickly and effectively but the anchors of this team predate him.

Now imagine our team this year if Fletch didn't add Nisky/Braun, didn't add Hayes...and still had Hak as couch.

Oh...and Hart is a rookie because he never got recalled under Hextall/Hak.

Point is, Hextall's own inactivity got him fired. We had teh cap space to add to last years team and he chose not to. He also chose to keep Hak.

Funny watching Hockey Central today and in 2 different segments talked about the Flyers, and both times ended up talking about how Hextall must feel right now.

 

[Curufinwe]

I'm not going to criticize Hextall for keeping 20 year old Hart in the minors for 20 games when the team was imploding with Hak as coach.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Still the best GM we've had in a long while and revitalized the franchise to the point it is today.

He did the hard job while guys like Homer and Fletch get to use the surplus of picks, prospects and $ he created to build the winners.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It is a big credit to Hextall that we're in a spot where we could potentially lose a major dman in expansion and be able to mostly shrug it off.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Hextall was essentially the dog in the “this is fine” meme towards the end. He essentially did nothing while a five alarm fire was going off around him.

The easiest remedy to perhaps buy a little more time was just firing Hakstol there but he couldn’t even do that.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Hextall was essentially the dog in the “this is fine” meme towards the end. He essentially did nothing while a five alarm fire was going off around him.

The easiest remedy to perhaps buy a little more time was just firing Hakstol there but he couldn’t even do that.

Any other competent team ditches Hak immediately after the season ends in disgrace. That was the point where I viewed Hextall as an obstacle moving forward, I believe.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Any other competent team ditches Hak immediately after the season ends in disgrace. That was the point where I viewed Hextall as an obstacle moving forward, I believe.

He made excuses for the coaches all along the way. Like motherf***er this a league where coaches are hired to be fired & turnover is very high. Yet he gave them guys long staying power too.

 

[landsbergfan]

It is a big credit to Hextall that we're in a spot where we could potentially lose a major dman in expansion and be able to mostly shrug it off.

He refused to make a move that looked like it might hurt the team in the future for a quick benefit. Which was a complete shift from the years of Philly GMs before him. It's poetic that there was so much PR around "being a Flyer" again after he was canned, but it was Hextall's plan that lifted the team from the years of being good, but not good enough. What he did was NECESSARY and no one should be upset about it. We could've had a GM that tried to turn the ship around quicker and that resulted in another 5-10 years of not being good enough.

 

[landsbergfan]

He made excuses for the coaches all along the way. Like motherf***er this a league where coaches are hired to be fired & turnover is very high. Yet he gave them guys long staying power too.

"visually better"

 

[Beef Invictus]

He made excuses for the coaches all along the way. Like motherf***er this a league where coaches are hired to be fired & turnover is very high. Yet he gave them guys long staying power too.

It was an error. Coaches develop too, so I knew from the start that he would, and should, have a longer grace period than a known head coach. But in year 3 it became apparent that he was not developing, moving forward, or adapting; that's when it was time to cut bait.

 

[Jettany]

Now imagine our team this year if Fletch didn't add Nisky/Braun, didn't add Hayes...and still had Hak as couch.

Oh...and Hart is a rookie because he never got recalled under Hextall/Hak.

Point is, Hextall's own inactivity got him fired. We had teh cap space to add to last years team and he chose not to. He also chose to keep Hak.

Funny watching Hockey Central today and in 2 different segments talked about the Flyers, and both times ended up talking about how Hextall must feel right now.

Hakstol was probably a better couch than coach! Lol.

 

[Jettany]

Still the best GM we've had in a long while and revitalized the franchise to the point it is today.

He did the hard job while guys like Homer and Fletch get to use the surplus of picks, prospects and $ he created to build the winners.

Homer? He came before Hextall?

Hexy did a tremendous job! Loved the rebuild. But I disagree which part is harder. I’m really not sure. Is it managing with no expectations and building picks and space or finalizing the job using that space and finding the right staff to cross the finish line first?

He wasn’t being judged on his fa signings by me and many on this board. Just the purge. If he were, the amac, Manning, vdv, weise, weal, goaltending etc. signinings/resigning would have been judged in the way ultimately team management did. Not to mention being coach stubborn.

 

[Tripod]

Any other competent team ditches Hak immediately after the season ends in disgrace. That was the point where I viewed Hextall as an obstacle moving forward, I believe.

Yeah I 100% supported Hextall in the rebuilding thru the draft and not being a buyer in the 2018 deadline. But in that summer, it was time to try and fill the holes we had at C, RHD, in goal, and the coaching staff.

And what did he do? Sign JVR and sign Folin....oh...and stuck with Hak and coaching staff and also Neuvirth. But at least we also signed Zamula!

And since we are talking about him, once again, here are ALL of Hextall's moves for everyone to look at and judge.