Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IV

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Dan Patrick

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I'm not sure 25 qualifies as "young" any more. But I guess tbe other things you said happened. Ya too short imo, but that does seem to be his agent's style. Id assume the org is thinking jbd will take that role and we have 2 years to fill his role now

Yeah, he also hasn't played more than 50 games so I can understand the clubs hesitancy to sign him to a long contract. If he stays at the same level he played this year its not unrealistic to re-sign him in the 4.5-5.5 mil range. There's also the aspect of Brannstrom and Sanderson both being able to play on the right side giving the Sens a lot of flexibility down the road.
 

Slippy

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So we get him on a steal of an average while we're not competing, then he walks when we're (hopefully) ready to contend in a couple years.

Genius.

And if Zub had been saying that he wasn't signing a deal longer than 2 years because he is already 25 and wants to become a UFA as soon as possible? And becoming a UFA does not mean he is automatically gone. Perhaps conceding to Zub's want to become a UFA ASAP maintains good relations in trying to sign him in a couple years.
 

Do Make Say Think

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I'm not sure 25 qualifies as "young" any more. But I guess tbe other things you said happened. Ya too short imo, but that does seem to be his agent's style. Id assume the org is thinking jbd will take that role and we have 2 years to fill his role now

The player has to sign the offer. Dorion can't just force him to sign for 4 years.

We have some quality D coming up in Sanderson, JBD and to a lesser extent Thomson, we might not need Zub in two years and buying UFA years would have been expensive.
 

Hale The Villain

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And how would you have handled it?

I would have gave him a deal similar to DeMelo, who signed for 3M x 4YRs, except I would have gone as high as 4M x 5YRs.

He's a young and has been fantastic (worth well over 4M based on his play this year). Would be a good gamble to make.
 

armani

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JBD could be playing as soon as next season.

They seem to think Lassi will be ready in a couple seasons, but I seriously doubt he'll ever as good as Zub.

The gap in hockey IQ between the two is massive. Zub processes the game at a high level, Lassi is Ceci/Cowen level stupid.

Different types of players, with Lassi being a whopping 5 years younger than Zub as a more offensive/less defensively inclined prospect.

Lassi T is only 20, and he was jobbed at Ilves (2 assists in 18 games) as a 6-7th guy who was leaving anyway. During the same hockey season, in his first year as an pro in North America, he currently sits at 12 points in his first 30 AHL games. I have seen glimpses of his potential in the few games I was able to watch of BSens - and as the Mann brothers say he is a longer term prospect. Dorion has top-4 D aspirations out of Lassi T, so that tells you that he will be given all the tools and opportunities to organically grow his game as there is no rush.

I definitely would have loved to see No Lube Zub signed longer, but the 2 years at merely $2.5M cap is an excellent stop gap and is mutually beneficial to both the Sens org and Zub. The team is expected to compete with this core, so there is no saying that Zub doesn't become a big part of it and re-signed again when the time comes to become a cog of a winning culture/line-up.
 

Hutz

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JBD could be playing as soon as next season.

They seem to think Lassi will be ready in a couple seasons, but I seriously doubt he'll ever as good as Zub.

The gap in hockey IQ between the two is massive. Zub processes the game at a high level, Lassi is Ceci/Cowen level stupid.

Well if that's what they think then I agree... i meant more that the org thinks that jbd will surpass zub as the top guy on right side. This looks to me like they think jbd will be the #1rd of the future and zub will hold his place until then. I'm not sure how it affects Lassi except that he gets a chance I guess. If Zub wants to stay in 2 years, I'm down
 

Slippy

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And if Zub said no?

This seems to be the problem most are forgetting. Lots of people like Zub, myself included and would like to have in the Sens lineup for more years, but the player has to agree.

He is 25. Just came to North America, and depending on how things go may only have one more contract after this one and will want it to be as good as possible. So I think he'd rather be 27 and a UFA with more prime years to bring up his value. While an RFA, that doesn't mean the can just dictate what the contract will be like. Hell, he could just decide to go back to Russia if he really wanted, but coming to NHL he'd want to maximize earing potential.
 

Do Make Say Think

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This seems to be the problem most are forgetting. Lots of people like Zub, myself included and would like to have in the Sens lineup for more years, but the player has to agree.

He is 25. Just came to North America, and depending on how things go may only have one more contract after this one and will want it to be as good as possible. So I think he'd rather be 27 and a UFA with more prime years to bring up his value. While an RFA, that doesn't mean the can just dictate what the contract will be like. Hell, he could just decide to go back to Russia if he really wanted, but coming to NHL he'd want to maximize earing potential.

You can really tell who has actual real world experience in these types of discussions.

"I'd just do thing X"
"You do understand that in a negotiation the other party has their own goals and has the ability think for themselves right?"
"OK well if thing X doesn't work then I just do thing Y (which is still overwhelmingly team friendly)"

Ah the safety of mom's basement..... Where no competing points of view can enter.
 
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armani

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Things I learned from Dorion Zoom presser today
  • It's his last year of contract (ends June 30), no extension talk yet but not worried, he will like to stay as long as possible
  • He looks at fan polls
  • This is a low-mid cap team (with young stars to sign) for the next few seasons
  • All his moves in the off season weren't about skills necessarily but bringing in high character vets
  • Draft Expansion philosophy: Why lose 2-3 guys when you can lose 1 in expansion? So he is ready to lose a player as opposed to let Francis hold him to a ransom (same philosophy as exercised during Vegas Entry Draft)
  • Entry Draft: BPA approach: He is comfortable with the current RD/LD/G prospect pipeline. 2021 is not the deepest draft (you are probably looking at 5-6 years before you see any of the picks make NHL impact). We are at a disadvantage with no onsite amateur scouting and that's why he preferred trading for 2022 picks in trades. But all teams are in the same footing this year, some good prospects may drop to later rounds .
  • Zaitsev is an "elite defender" with respect from everyone in the locker room. One of the hardest workers in practice as well.
  • Lassi T tremendous stride, DJ was very impressed with the game he watched on Tuesday and was going to play if not for Logan and Kelly being called up.
 
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Dan Patrick

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Things I learned from Dorion Zoom presser today
  • It's his last year of contract (ends June 30), no extension talk yet but not worried, he will like to stay as long as possible
  • He looks at fan polls
  • This is a low-mid cap team (with young stars to sign) for the next few seasons
  • All his moves in the off season weren't about skills necessarily but bringing in high character vets
  • Draft Expansion philosophy: Why lose 2-3 guys when you can lose 1 in expansion? So he is ready to lose a player as opposed to let Francis hold him to a ransom (same philosophy as exercised during Vegas Entry Draft)
  • Entry Draft: BPA approach: He is comfortable with the current RD/LD/G prospect pipeline. 2021 is not the deepest draft (you are probably looking at 5-6 years before you see any of the picks make NHL impact). We are at a disadvantage (no onsite amateur scouting), but all teams are in the same footing this year, some good prospects may drop to later rounds (that's why he preferred trading for 2022 picks in trades).
  • Zaitsev is an "elite defender" with respect from everyone in the locker room. One of the hardest workers in practice as well.
  • Lassi T tremendous stride, DJ was very impressed with the game he watched on Tuesday and was going to play if not for Logan and Kelly being called up.

Is he trolling us with that Zaitsev comment. Everything else seems reasonable.

Pierre if you're reading this, protect Gustavsson in the expansion draft!
 

armani

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Is he trolling us with that Zaitsev comment. Everything else seems reasonable.

Pierre if you're reading this, protect Gustavsson in the expansion draft!

I think he just Dorioned it, as he does sometimes with overhyping adjectives. I would agree with the fact that Zaitsev had a strong season and was a good defensive defenceman (who is playing in an elevated role and is more suited as a #4 guy or #5-6 on an elite team). Personally, I think Zaitsev finally earned his keep in Sens jersey and he fits in nicely with the current roster.
 

Xspyrit

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- Forsberg on a 1 year deal to prevent Daccord/Gustavsson from playing in the NHL

- Great 2 years deal for Zub, leading him to total free agency

- Re-signing a guy that we litterally squandered a 2nd round pick on is next?

Offseason is starting really well. Anybody not praising Dorion has no idea of the real world

Since I was totally wrong on last off-season effects on the team/roster, and didn't realize how much the character brought in is the reason why we'll be so good, I learned my lesson and will trust the masterplan!
 
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cudi

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I think he just Dorioned it, as he does sometimes with overhyping adjectives. I would agree with the fact that Zaitsev had a strong season and was a good defensive defenceman (who is playing in an elevated role and is more suited as a #4 guy or #5-6 on an elite team). Personally, I think Zaitsev finally earned his keep in Sens jersey and he fits in nicely with the current roster.

If he just says Zaitsev is 'solid' or 'good' defensively its a non topic. He just loves to exaggerate lol
 

Hale The Villain

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Entry Draft: BPA approach: He is comfortable with the current RD/LD/G prospect pipeline. 2021 is not the deepest draft (you are probably looking at 5-6 years before you see any of the picks make NHL impact). We are at a disadvantage with no onsite amateur scouting and that's why he preferred trading for 2022 picks in trades. But all teams are in the same footing this year, some good prospects may drop to later rounds

Interesting. May mean the 1st is on the table for "talent".
 

Neil Patrick Harris

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This seems to be the problem most are forgetting. Lots of people like Zub, myself included and would like to have in the Sens lineup for more years, but the player has to agree.

He is 25. Just came to North America, and depending on how things go may only have one more contract after this one and will want it to be as good as possible. So I think he'd rather be 27 and a UFA with more prime years to bring up his value. While an RFA, that doesn't mean the can just dictate what the contract will be like. Hell, he could just decide to go back to Russia if he really wanted, but coming to NHL he'd want to maximize earing potential.
In all likelihood, the primary reason Zub ended up picking the Sens was because we have him the best chance to actually play in the NHL (ie. because we had the worst defense).

The plan should be for this team - in two years' time - to be one that players like Zub sign with because they want to win, not because we present the best chance to crack a roster.
 

PlayersLtd

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Montreal and Winnipeg fell apart and gave teams every opportunity down the stretch to take their spots in the playoffs. Ottawa, Calgary and Vancouver squandered the easiest year to make the playoffs in recent memory.

Ottawa did not "squander" anything. It was glaringly obvious from the get go that we were not a playoff team and the only reason you could suggest there was some hope is because the entire roster exceeded expectations down the stretch and that's so fresh in our minds.
 
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