GM Chuck Fletcher (Part 2)

[VladDrag]

If Jake is traded, a young top 6 player has to come back. Can’t trade him for picks at this point

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

get a life

I like the humor attempt but it may go over like a lead balloon

Tough time to be a Flyer's fan.

 

[Striiker]

No its not, Giroux is 10 times the player Jake is and could carry Weise and Torgo on a line.

Jake is no where near Giroux, Jake cant even carry our 20 yr old star center as he develops.

If people are saying they would like to trade Jake for some sort of shoot first goal scorer, how the **** is that irrational ?

I'm not comparing the players. I'm comparing "outrage earned" vs "outrage received". Both are/were far off from appropriate.

I also didn't say anything about specific trade proposals but if you think you're trading Voracek for a top goal scorer then you're fooling yourself. If the quality is the same then the other team isn't trading the goalscorer, so realistically you're looking at picks, prospects, or a worse player coming back.

 

[gertbfrobe16]

Jake is no where near Giroux, people hating on G was irrational, Jake may not get 60 pts this year, that is HORRIBLE !

Is Simmers PP points down, maybe we keep him too ?

you are impatient wait 2 to 5 more years then the team will win the cup for the next 10 years in a row. trust hextall he has a plan. it doesn't matter about having bad players on the roster, they won't be here next year when we start to compete. any of this sound familiar?

 

[bennysflyers16]

I'm not comparing the players. I'm comparing "outrage earned" vs "outrage received". Both are/were far off from appropriate.

I also didn't say anything about specific trade proposals but if you think you're trading Voracek for a top goal scorer then you're fooling yourself. If the quality is the same then the other team isn't trading the goalscorer, so realistically you're looking at picks, prospects, or a worse player coming back.

You take a lesser player with a skill set more catering to our needs and offset value with picks. Look at how many times we score 2 or less, that guy won't have to be Ovy to be a top scorer for us

 

[Striiker]

You take a lesser player with a skill set more catering to our needs and offset value with picks. Look at how many times we score 2 or less, that guy won't have to be Ovy to be a top scorer for us

We don't have any needs desperate enough to take back a lesser player.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

Hypothetically, it could be V for Tarasenko with an add from us. They don't have a 1st, maybe our 2nd (will be early, obviously) or a late 1st we get in a Simmonds trade would entice them.

A prospect (not one of our top ones) or Hagg could also be included.

Just spitballing.

 

[bennysflyers16]

We don't have any needs desperate enough to take back a lesser player.

20 games scoring 2 or less goals ??? Goal scorer isnt a desperate need ?
15 games scoring 1 or less goals ?

Half our games we have scored 2 or less goals, that is horrific

 

[landsbergfan]

Ahh the ever so common "older star player with big contract for younger NHL player with obvious upside" trade

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Here's the problem with the traditional shooter archetype -- either they're really, really good at it and they're not available or the net impact is nowhere near what you would expect from looking at the box score.

They went out and signed a finisher in the offseason and it took about 47 seconds to turn on him from largely the same people who want one now. The same thing will happen next time because that's what happens when you don't fix the process.

 

[Striiker]

20 games scoring 2 or less goals ??? Goal scorer isnt a desperate need ?
15 games scoring 1 or less goals ?

Half our games we have scored 2 or less goals, that is horrific

How many times do we need to go over that the goal scoring problem is the PP? And the problem with the PP isn't just a lack of a shooter.

A goal scorer isn't a desperate need. Last year we were 13th in total goals scored and then we added another goal scorer.

So clearly trading our 2nd best scorer for a lesser player who isn't a desperate need is a bad idea.

 

[Psuhockey]

We don't have any needs desperate enough to take back a lesser player.

If this team still stinks in two years, will you still just blame the coach?

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

Good points Jojo. System absolutely has to be changed.

Poor JVR, whipping boy again already. Crazy thought..use him on the PP 1 and maximize his value coaches.

 

[landsbergfan]

I've reconsidered my position on Provorov's next contract. They should no longer sign him for 8 million x 8 years and should definitely sign him to a bridge deal for 2 or 3 years so they can be really certain which Provorov they are going to sign long term. The risk is too high

 

[Striiker]

If this team still stinks in two years, will you still just blame the coach?

If the coach deserves blame, sure.

I've also blamed players a ton, so you're horribly failing at making the point you're trying to make.

 

[bennysflyers16]

How many times do we need to go over that the goal scoring problem is the PP? And the problem with the PP isn't just a lack of a shooter.

A goal scorer isn't a desperate need. Last year we were 13th in total goals scored and then we added another goal scorer.

So clearly trading our 2nd best scorer for a lesser player who isn't a desperate need is a bad idea.

The PP should at least be 20th with the talent, being league worse is more than just a ho hum slump and all Simmonds after 40 games.

 

[Striiker]

The PP should at least be 20th with the talent, being league worse is more than just a ho hum slump and all Simmonds after 40 games.

Well you've wanted Jake off the top unit for a long time before the PP was bad, so you really don't have an objective opinion on the subject.

He wasn't the problem back then and he still isn't now.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Well you've wanted Jake off the top unit for a long time before the PP was bad, so you really don't have an objective opinion on the subject.

He wasn't the problem back then and he still isn't now.

I want a shooter in the shooting spot like every other top unit in the NHL. You can't even for a second accept the fact that maybe teams have figured our PP out and it isn't just oh well, it will be better next year cause it was 2 years ago. Teams have gone to a crazy aggressive PK last few years and our PP % has gone down with same personnel.

 

[Striiker]

I want a shooter in the shooting spot like every other top unit in the NHL. You can't even for a second accept the fact that maybe teams have figured our PP out and it isn't just oh well, it will be better next year cause it was 2 years ago. Teams have gone to a crazy aggressive PK last few years and our PP % has gone down with same personnel.

Oh, so they suddenly figured out the PP after how many years of it being the same and being successful? That's not it.

A PP isn't hard to figure out. Teams knew what they were doing for years, they just couldn't stop it. One huge difference is that Simmonds is no longer a threat and is actively detrimental to the PP, so that's definitely a big part of it.

 

[baudib1]

I still think the problems with this team are largely fixable and I think they can contend as early as next season.

It'll require changing roughly 6 players who currently play most nights, maybe 7.

The issue is some of these guys will have to come from the current AHL team, and we need to start integrating them into the lineup now. The last thing we need is to hire an established NHL coach who doesn't want to start the season with 4 rookies with no NHL experience. (All of you know this will absolutely be a thing)

Also we need to figure out what we have in Myers, Friedman, Morin. If we can roll with Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim, Myers, Gudas, Morin/Friedman then great. If it doesn't look like Myers is quite ready for prime time, then we need a top 4 defender. If we don't need that guy, that's money and resources that can go toward another top 6 winger.

JVR - Giroux - Konecny
(Panarin) - Couturier - Voracek
Lindblom - Frost - (Hughes/FA/Trade acquisition)
Laughton - Patrick - NAK

Provorov - Ghost
Sanheim - Gudas
Morin - Myers
Friedman

Hart
Goalie acquisition

 

[JojoTheWhale]

They're so bad that I think it will be an impediment to signing top flight UFAs. Not a complete roadblock, but for the ones that won't simply go to the highest bidder (Karlsson), it will be something to overcome unless there's reason to believe something meaningful changed.

I've reconsidered my position on Provorov's next contract. They should no longer sign him for 8 million x 8 years and should definitely sign him to a bridge deal for 2 or 3 years so they can be really certain which Provorov they are going to sign long term. The risk is too high

This is interesting to me because my thoughts generally don't line up with consensus on him and I'm wondering just how much your opinion has changed of him as a player vs worrying about the contract.

Did you think he was a top flight 1D type coming into the year? Do you still think that's his reasonable peak? Would you give him 6/40 tomorrow?

 

[baudib1]

I'd try to get Provorov on a 6/30.

 

[baudib1]

They're so bad that I think it will be an impediment to signing top flight UFAs. Not a complete roadblock, but for the ones that won't simply go to the highest bidder (Karlsson), it will be something to overcome unless there's reason to believe something meaningful changed.

This is why I'm largely against tanking. Making a run a finishing 9th in the conference with 90 points looks a lot better to a prospective UFA than finishing with 74 points.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Oh, so they suddenly figured out the PP after how many years of it being the same and being successful? That's not it.

A PP isn't hard to figure out. Teams knew what they were doing for years, they just couldn't stop it. One huge difference is that Simmonds is no longer a threat and is actively detrimental to the PP, so that's definitely a big part of it.

Simmer is major issue, but he isnt the only issue

 

[TCTC]

I've reconsidered my position on Provorov's next contract. They should no longer sign him for 8 million x 8 years and should definitely sign him to a bridge deal for 2 or 3 years so they can be really certain which Provorov they are going to sign long term. The risk is too high

Provorov should definitely be signed long term. Players like him don't grow on trees. He's having a bad season but who do we have to replace him? We simply don't have another defenseman like him. Even if Sanheim keeps progressing, he's a different type of defenseman. I still believe that if we want a legitimate elite long term #1 defenseman, Provorov is by far our best bet.