Pre-Game Talk: GM 16: Pavel Bure Night - Canucks vs. Leafs - Nov 2 - 4:00PM PST - CBC

[Tanevian*]

The original plan was to bring in Gretzky to make Bure "happy" but the reports or rumors were that the Canucks woke Gretzky in the middle of the night to get him to sign on the dotted line when they had a verbal agreement because they were afraid he was just using them as leverage and that ticked Gretzky off enough that he decided not to sign with the Canucks.

I think things would have been a lot different if Gretzky rather than Messier was brought here.

Yeah, we'd just hate 99 rather than 11.

 

[Hal 9000*]

The original plan was to bring in Gretzky to make Bure "happy" but the reports or rumors were that the Canucks woke Gretzky in the middle of the night to get him to sign on the dotted line when they had a verbal agreement because they were afraid he was just using them as leverage and that ticked Gretzky off enough that he decided not to sign with the Canucks.

I think things would have been a lot different if Gretzky rather than Messier was brought here.

Perhaps, but Gretzky was pretty much washed up by that time too.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Perhaps, but Gretzky was pretty much washed up by that time too.

Gretz managed 97 points in 97-98, playing with Bure that year he could have been well over 100.

 

[WinterEmpire]

Perhaps, but Gretzky was pretty much washed up by that time too.

96-97: 97 Pts(T4th)
97-98: 90 Pts(T3rd)

"washed up"

 

[Hal 9000*]

Gretz managed 97 points in 97-98, playing with Bure that year he could have been well over 100.

Maybe, but the Rangers had some pretty heavy duty snipers at that time; Graves, Lafontaine, Lettch, Sundstrom, Kovalev among others. Gretzky (and I watched a lot of those games) was gifted many points, was not being challenged by opposing players as much and was getting tired - it was obvious! The media near the end of that season was already beginning to ask him about retirement and the very next season was garbage for him.

I like Gretzky yada yada, but stats or not 97/98 was the beginning of the end for Gretzky.

 

[Tanevian*]

Maybe, but the Rangers had some pretty heavy duty snipers at that time; Graves, Lafontaine, Lettch, Sundstrom, Kovalev among others. Gretzky (and I watched a lot of those games) was gifted many points, was not being challenged by opposing players as much and was getting tired - it was obvious! The media near the end of that season was already beginning to ask him about retirement and the very next season was garbage for him.

I like Gretzky yada yada, but stats or not 97/98 was the beginning of the end for Gretzky.

You are going to break your chain back pedaling that hard.

 

[Hal 9000*]

You are going to break your chain back pedaling that hard.

In what way am I back peddling?

He was at the end of his career in 97/98, he played just one more year and retired after nearly every interviewer asked him about retirement. Gretzky looked old and slow for the final 2 years of his career, he was behind the play a lot, barely came back to his own end and basically let the others carry the puck and the play.

When you can shuffle the puck to Leetch, Graves, Kovalev and rest you're gonna get on the scoresheet.

 

[Tanevian*]

In what way am I back peddling?

Who really cares?

A life time of biking has always made me spell it back pedaling. It sort of makes sense. I won't change, but back peddling makes more sense.

I'd still have preferred 99 and his lazy 100 points over 11.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Gretz was hardly washed up, however I don't think he would have meshed with Bure as well as most of you think. That said, it's a tragedy we couldn't see him in our colours for those 3 years.

 

[Hal 9000*]

Who really cares?

A life time of biking has always made me spell it back pedaling. It sort of makes sense. I won't change, but back peddling makes more sense.

I'd still have preferred 99 and his lazy 100 points over 11.

I have not back pedalled one bit. I response to MB's opinion, I showed respect and said "maybe", then gave my opinion which is to the contrary. I guess if someone doesn't say "you're full of ****", they are considered back pedlars.

Anyway, I do think Gretzky was too old and slow at that stage (and actually 96/97, Messier's stats were as good as Gretzky's)….I digress, - in regards to Bure, Bure needed and wanted a set-up man to commit 100% to setting him up - much like Larionov did. They wanted an Oates/Hull dynamic. The Canucks tried many centre's including Ronning and even Linden - none worked. Of course they wanted Gretzky, but Gretzky IMO couldn't have done much for him at that point.

 

[SergioMomesso]

So pumped for this game. Spent over 1500 bucks to get here. As long as they don't cancel like that piece of work Kanye. All should be good in the hood. I have a one of a kind Bure jersey. Someone stitched all if his personal info and stats on the back. If anyone is reading this that's going to the game you have to check it out. Section 118 row 9. White Bure jersey.

 

[SergioMomesso]

I have not back pedalled one bit. I response to MB's opinion, I showed respect and said "maybe", then gave my opinion which is to the contrary. I guess if someone doesn't say "you're full of ****", they are considered back pedlars.

Anyway, I do think Gretzky was too old and slow at that stage (and actually 96/97, Messier's stats were as good as Gretzky's)….I digress, - in regards to Bure, Bure needed and wanted a set-up man to commit 100% to setting him up - much like Larionov did. They wanted an Oates/Hull dynamic. The Canucks tried many centre's including Ronning and even Linden - none worked. Of course they wanted Gretzky, but Gretzky IMO couldn't have done much for him at that point.

Adam Oates, Pierre Turgeon and Pat LaFontaine could have turned Pavel into a 70 goal scorer I'm the late nineties

 

[JA]

Gretz was hardly washed up, however I don't think he would have meshed with Bure as well as most of you think. That said, it's a tragedy we couldn't see him in our colours for those 3 years.

I've seen people recently call Pavel a "north south player," which is incredibly upsetting. His vision, creativity, and roving style in a Canucks uniform have been entirely forgotten. All one needs to do is to watch old footage of Pavel to realize his game would have been tremendously compatible with Wayne's. There's a reason Gretzky would have extended his career to play with Pavel -- he recognized the type of game Pavel played.

Pavel and Anatoli Semenov were the winger-center combination during the 1992-93 season. Pavel and Murray Craven played together in 1993-94. In some instances, Pavel played on a line with Craven and Odjick. These players didn't help Pavel score, nor did they capitalize on the chances he provided them with. Pat Quinn even swore he would find Pavel an appropriate centerman, though he never did. You'll find that in this Archie McDonald article here:

Bure needs centre to prosper; Russian Rocket flies solo; Commentary: [Final Edition]
ARCHIE MCDONALD Vancouver Sun. Edmonton Journal [Edmonton, Alta] 02 Apr 1993: F2.

Let's play a name association game. I say Kurri. You say Gretzky. I say Richard. You say Lach and Blake. Get the idea?. Bossy? Trottier. Lafleur? Lemaire. Howe? Lindsay and Abel. Dionne? Simmer and Taylor. Mogilny? LaFontaine.

The point is, productive forwards in the NHL invariably run as an entry, often a three-horse entry. One great talent drags others along in his slipstream or two or three players complement each other so completely as to form a single dominating personality.

...

All this serves as a roundabout introduction to the place of Pavel Bure in hockey's dating game. Mention his name and who else comes to mind? I can't think of anyone. He is a gifted soloist but he could make sweeter music if he had someone to sing along with him. His 55 goals and 97 points are far ahead of Geoff Courtnall and Cliff Ronning, skilled players whose talents haven't magically meshed with those of the Russian Rocket.

...

Bure worked well in his freshman season with cagey countryman Igor Larionov and Greg Adams, and earlier this season he co-ordinated smoothly with Adams and Anatoli Semenov, another Russian. But Semenov has been ground down by the rigors of a travel mad 84-game schedule and Adams has sat out 27 games with injuries. So Bure logs a lot of solo flights. He has scored in only one of his last 11 games - a two-goal effort against the disorganized L.A. Kings - which leads to several conclusions. One of which is that he misses Adams, who is large, fast, and goes to the net, more than anyone would have guessed.

Where would Alexander Mogilny be without Pat LaFontaine in Buffalo? Brett Hull hasn't been quite the same since Adam Oates was sent to Boston. Teemu Selanne is brilliant in Winnipeg but he is glowing even more since Soviet Alexei Zhamnov is back making his sly moves. Sometimes Zhamnov looks even better than the Finnish Flash, but he lacks consistency. It doesn't hurt Selanne having Phil Housley on the blue-line either, creating acres of open ice with his lyrical skating. Toronto's Doug Gilmour has been on a Hart Trophy pace most of the year but he's picked up a step now that he's got towering Dave Andreychuk parked in front of the net. In Los Angeles, Luc Robitaille is scorching the opposition now that Gretzky is back in vintage form.

Pat Quinn said on trading deadline that he probably will continue to search "for that big, talented centre until the day I die."

...

Mike Bossy once described the chemistry which existed between him and Bryan Trottier. "It's instinct," he said. "There aren't any little signals. The thing between us is in the communication we have. We're not afraid to tell each other that we should have done this, or we should have done that. As much as Bryan helps me, I've helped him." The Canucks definitely need someone to help Bure. Get well soon, Greg Adams.

Works Cited

McDonald, Archie. "Bure Needs Centre to Prosper; Russian Rocket Flies Solo; Commentary." Edmonton Journal: 0. Apr 02 1993. ProQuest. Web. 27 Oct. 2013 .

Pavel would have excelled with better linemates. The combination of Wayne and Pavel would have been magic.