News Article: Globe & Mail article (includes comments from Chipman)

Unholy goalie

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These are both good posts on the topic. I am very skeptical of the press so I take everything with a grain of salt. So that being said unless Mark is just spinning he will need to update his lockstep research because every season ticket holder I know, and that is a big number, are expecting playoffs or close this year. They are all expecting a big step forward.

Tom you are correct the secondary market has dried up and although I am greatful TNSE has given us some flexibility on selling prices I doubt that will be enough this year.

Note to Mark from me. Amazing work on getting the team back. This is a big season and you either need to make the playoffs or take action. Most fans I know are not going to settle for year after year of non playoff hockey. Having lots of talented players and sucking is actually even more frustrating. Mark All the great qualities it took to get an NHL franchise like patience, loyalty, resolve, being a class act were noble and you pulled it off. However, those same qualities may be getting in the way now and by that I mean you may be getting in the way. Daryl Katz figured out that he needed help and if we fail this season I am looking squarely at you. You may need to add a layer between you and Chevy. Mark you will always be needed on the business side and as a board of governors type but your make up as a person might not be ideal as a hockey ops exec.

All my comments I would have written before this season started. The nightmare beginning is just a two game sample size and I am not panicking quite yet I will review this after 10 games but if we haven’t pulled out of our death spiral the powers that be will need to act. I plan on renewing my season tickets but I know lots and lots of people that are opting out and buying game day when needed after this term. I know lots of people that are taking less games and bringing in additional seat partners too.

Mark the lockstep comment was really really clunky and sadly outdated. Don’t confuse a sold out building for happy customers. Please don’t fiddle while Rome burns because I want a SUCCESSFUL vibrant NHL franchise here for my kids to enjoy one day.

I think Chipman's perspective hinges largely on sales as well. His primary concern from a business standpoint is that tickets are paid for. Whether or not people show up (or can't get rid of the tickets that are already paid for) is secondary.

I agree with Tom that Chipman should see the secondary market as a clear warning signal, but he probably sees it as a buffer.. and as you say, he shouldn't confuse "sold out building" with happy fans. He's got people on contract for their tickets for crying out loud...
 

sting13

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Every once in a while I go back and watch the video footage of events leading up to the NHL's return to Winnipeg. It helps me keep perspective of how lucky we are to have the Jets back and to have a team in the best league in the world. As long as the players are putting in a solid effort every night, I am satisfied with that for the most part. I really believe True North is trying to assemble a squad that can not only challenge for the Stanley Cup but also win it.

Like most of you, I have not been impressed with the first 2 games but I'm hoping they'll get the kinks out and start playing up to their potential. Hopefully It's just a glitch in an otherwise start to a season that will have many more ups than downs.

I really hope the fans continue to support this team at the gate. If we start to see empty seats popping up and people cancelling their seasons tickets, we could once again risk losing our team. If it happens again it will not just be unlikely that we'll ever get the NHL back, it won't happen plain and simple. There's no one out there that would be willing to pay $ 500 million to bring a team to Winnipeg.

I think the fine folks of Quebec City would gladly change places with us.

:jets
I agree. I enjoyed the WHA, lived through save the Jets campaigns, 9 win seasons, Dave Elliot's winning goal, Teemu being Teemu etc. But after living 15 years with out the Jets, I have learned one thing, I will take a bad Jets team any day over no Jets team. Ups and downs will happen but I never want the feeling again of not being able to go to a Jets game.
 

folix

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We aren't "ungrateful" we are happy to have a team back. However you all have to remember that he is making alot of money off this team now and is building an empire of bizs around this team.

At this point Chapman is selling us entertainment. If this entertainment sucks we have a right to complain.

And as a season ticket holder it doesn't feel like we are lock step with them it feels like we pulling on the same rope in different directions.
 
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Tom ServoMST3K

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What's your excuse?
You have to ask, how many more years of COMPLETE futility before we actually see the cracks in the market?

Zero Playoff wins, one playoff appearance since 2011. The Jets have been the worst franchise in the league since arriving here.
 
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KingBogo

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I agree. I enjoyed the WHA, lived through save the Jets campaigns, 9 win seasons, Dave Elliot's winning goal, Teemu being Teemu etc. But after living 15 years with out the Jets, I have learned one thing, I will take a bad Jets team any day over no Jets team. Ups and downs will happen but I never want the feeling again of not being able to go to a Jets game.
I couldn't agree more. After we got our team back I promised myself I'd do whatever I could to help make sure we keep our team. We could go 0-82 for 10 years in a row and I'd still renew my season tickets. If people stop buying tickets I will buy more tickets. I love having NHL hockey to watch and will never take it for granted. As you said fortunes will rise and fall. GM's and coaches will come and go. Players will be drafted, traded, seek greener pastures and retire. And I want it all to happen here in Winnipeg not peeking in on some team across the country.
 
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Eyeseeing

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I couldn't agree more. After we got our team back I promised myself I'd do whatever I could to help make sure we keep our team. We could go 0-82 for 10 years in a row and I'd still renew my season tickets. If people stop buying tickets I will buy more tickets. I love having NHL hockey to watch and will never take it for granted. As you said fortunes will rise and fall. GM's and coaches will come and go. Players will be drafted, traded, seek greener pastures and retire. And I want it all to happen here in Winnipeg not peeking in on some team across the country.
Chipman is counting on this type of support.
He didn’t bring them back for humanitarian reasons , it was a solid business opportunity and being a very good business man he seized it.
It was well organized and planned and he had the leagues utmost respect in how he did this.
However he’s selling an entertainment product at good margins and needs to respect the marketplace.
Goodwill only goes so far.
I guarantee another poor season and apathy reaches new levels.
I can see the wait list cut in a half again.
8000-4000-2000
Jet’s hockey is not budget friendly for this blue collar city.
C’mon Chipman get a grip on reality, don’t let another season go by before
making changes.
 

The Blue Baron

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Chipman is counting on this type of support.
He didn’t bring them back for humanitarian reasons , it was a solid business opportunity and being a very good business man he seized it.
It was well organized and planned and he had the leagues utmost respect in how he did this.
However he’s selling an entertainment product at good margins and needs to respect the marketplace.
Goodwill only goes so far.
I guarantee another poor season and apathy reaches new levels.
I can see the wait list cut in a half again.
8000-4000-2000
Jet’s hockey is not budget friendly for this blue collar city.
C’mon Chipman get a grip on reality, don’t let another season go by before
making changes.

Bravo my thoughts exactly

He needs to get a grip on the reality that fans interest is dwindling and the honeymoon most certainly is over!

I to would keep my share partner season ticket no matter how bad they can be. There's always chance of greener pastures, even with PauMau as your HC, and that's worth keeping my SS alone.

They need to start winning to sustain high level fan interest.
 
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Eyeseeing

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I do believe Chipman has always had full input and therefore he could be the guy to influence the firings of this coaching staff although I believe he wanted them extended also.
As someone else suggested a hockey ops guy to be the layer between Chipman and Chevy would be ideal.
 
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KingBogo

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You guys do appreciate that Chipman's investment has approx tripled in value over the last 7 years. Based on the going rate for an expansion franchise Chipman and his partner have what? $250,000,000 - $300,000,000 potential profit locked up in the team. Likely far more than he could ever achieve operating it over his lifetime. If people don't support the team it is very portable. Quebec and Seattle are potential markets. Bettman isn't coming to the rescue like he has in Arizona. IMO You either support a team or you don't. If it takes 10 years to have success it takes 10 years. Maybe mistakes get made along the way? So be it. I just hope their enough fans that stick out the tough times or we are all back to watching Leaf games on Saturday nights. And I still love going to live hockey games. If I could live through the Jets 1.0 and season after season of disappointment, I can hang in there until they get 2.0 right.
 
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buggs

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I agree. I enjoyed the WHA, lived through save the Jets campaigns, 9 win seasons, Dave Elliot's winning goal, Teemu being Teemu etc. But after living 15 years with out the Jets, I have learned one thing, I will take a bad Jets team any day over no Jets team. Ups and downs will happen but I never want the feeling again of not being able to go to a Jets game.

See that's the thing. My attitude when the Jets were gone was that if they came back I'd get seasons and would support the team through thick and thin. But after last season I started to question that. I have a pair of P3 tickets in the attack zone directly behind the net. They're good seats, not great. Have asked to relocate every year, even into P2. I pay $10K a year for that pair of seats. That $10K is half of what my annual mortgage payment was (just slightly less if you're being picky). I have yet to receive a single response from my ticket rep on the request to suggest something might be available. So at some point, if you continue to deliver a lousy product and are unresponsive to me, an actual bill paying season ticket holder, I can think of a lot of directions to send that money. If the wait list is so jammed full of people waiting maybe I should just take care of other directions (I could have a beautiful '69 Mustang paid off in just two years) I'm interested in, take advantage or a remarkably weak secondary market and still go to just about as many games as I'd like but without the financial commitment. Certainly no harm will befall the Jets going forward because of that wait list and I'll frankly be in a better position. Oh sure, someday I might miss out on the Jets actually advancing in the playoffs but I'm not really sure I'll even want to pay the $700+ per seat for round four of the playoffs anyway.

It's two games in. I'm locked in for this season and next. But if we miss again this year and head into next with Maurice as head coach I suspect that there'll be a pair of seats in 112 available for someone to purchase. I'm just as much a fan as many others here. I'm thankful for the Jets being back and I don't ever want to see them leave again. But it's not my responsibility to keep millionaires afloat for a product that is troubling to enjoy. I don't buy crappy cars and keep taking them in for repairs just because the car dealer guy is the guy who owns the Jets, I'll buy something reliable. If you give me a quality product, I'll support you for a very long time. Seven years in and we're currently the laughing stock of the league? That ain't quality peeps. I said thick and thin. Seven years in I'm waiting on the thick part and there's been ample time to get there. Lousy D play/systems over seven years and still the same coach (lemme guess, cabin at the same lake as some other Jets guys, probably a kid that knows other kids of parents in the organization?); league worst goaltending over seven years and the same goaltending coach in place? Hmmm. I'll guarantee that Chipman doesn't tolerate that lack of performance in his car dealerships.

[/crusty]
 

buggs

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You guys do appreciate that Chipman's investment has approx tripled in value over the last 7 years. Based on the going rate for an expansion franchise Chipman and his partner have what? $250,000,000 - $300,000,000 potential profit locked up in the team. Likely far more than he could ever achieve operating it over his lifetime. If people don't support the team it is very portable. Quebec and Seattle are potential markets. Bettman isn't coming to the rescue like he has in Arizona. IMO You either support a team or you don't. If it takes 10 years to have success it takes 10 years. Maybe mistakes get made along the way? So be it. I just hope their enough fans that stick out the tough times or we are all back to watching Leaf games on Saturday nights. And I still love going to live hockey games. If I could live through the Jets 1.0 and season after season of disappointment, I can hang in there until they get 2.0 right.

Doesn't ten years to get some degree of success make you question the decision making process? Look at the Leafs just three short years ago. We're sitting on Laine, Ehlers and Scheifele, the latter of whom I'd argue is perhaps over the long term a better center than Matthews will be career wise (I know, don't say that on the main boards), and a host of very solid vets.
 

KingBogo

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Doesn't ten years to get some degree of success make you question the decision making process? Look at the Leafs just three short years ago. We're sitting on Laine, Ehlers and Scheifele, the latter of whom I'd argue is perhaps over the long term a better center than Matthews will be career wise (I know, don't say that on the main boards), and a host of very solid vets.
And do you not believe at some point a team with a young core made up of Scheifele, Laine, Ehlers, Trouba and Morrissey isn't going to have some success? So the dream gets knocked back a year or 2 because of substandard coaching, that is worth losing an NHL franchise over? Every coach eventually gets fired and in a few years when this team is contending in another city we can all say yeah but they didn't win in year 7 when I really thought they would.
 

Eyeseeing

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You guys do appreciate that Chipman's investment has approx tripled in value over the last 7 years. Based on the going rate for an expansion franchise Chipman and his partner have what? $250,000,000 - $300,000,000 potential profit locked up in the team. Likely far more than he could ever achieve operating it over his lifetime. If people don't support the team it is very portable. Quebec and Seattle are potential markets. Bettman isn't coming to the rescue like he has in Arizona. IMO You either support a team or you don't. If it takes 10 years to have success it takes 10 years. Maybe mistakes get made along the way? So be it. I just hope their enough fans that stick out the tough times or we are all back to watching Leaf games on Saturday nights. And I still love going to live hockey games. If I could live through the Jets 1.0 and season after season of disappointment, I can hang in there until they get 2.0 right.
I like watching hockey but not at any cost.
 

KingBogo

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I like watching hockey but not at any cost.
What any cost? I bought into season tickets at a comfortable price point. I spend a lot on Jets gear, but I like wearing Jets gear. NHL hockey is my #1 entertainment choice so that's where I like to spend my entertainment dollar. Of course I want them to win, but I believe that is also true for ownership and management. But I have no intention of turning my back if it doesn't happen as quickly as I hoped. Because not having a team really sucks...a lot worse than having a bad NHL team.
 

Eyeseeing

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What any cost? I bought into season tickets at a comfortable price point. I spend a lot on Jets gear, but I like wearing Jets gear. NHL hockey is my #1 entertainment choice so that's where I like to spend my entertainment dollar. Of course I want them to win, but I believe that is also true for ownership and management. But I have no intention of turning my back if it doesn't happen as quickly as I hoped. Because not having a team really sucks...a lot worse than having a bad NHL team.
I like your post.
I could buy seasons but truthfully I won’t even buy single game tickets.
I’m definitely a Tier 2 fan.
I have been to several games through business and most recently at season opener in sec 125 @ $ 257.00 per seat x 4
Sorry that’s insane and out of reach for most folks in this town.
Problem as I see it there are not enough fans like you if the product continues to be mediocre.
Chipman needs to give his head a shake if he thinks this is sustainable long term .
If the product is good no problem, but only if the product is good .
 

DowntownBooster

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It sounds like there are a few people turning their back on Mark Chipman now. The old Winnipeg mentality is starting to creep back into town questioning the affordability of going to Jets games and voicing displeasure with the team making money. Perhaps all the people in Toronto and elsewhere were right to doubt that the NHL belongs here. Fans in Edmonton supported their team during 10 straight years of missing the playoffs and people here are ready to abandon ship 2 games into our 7th season? At one time there were so many begging the NHL to come back here and give us another chance. Are we truly a city of fairweather fans that will only support our teams if they're winning? Sure, things are turning out well for True North right now with the value of the franchise increasing but that should be considered a good thing. We want our team to be on solid financial footing. To think that Chipman doesn't care if we're competitive makes no sense. If that were the case the Jets would have the lowest payroll in the league to match the size of our market relative to all others. He is no Harold Ballard trying to screw over the fans in order to make money. True North was profitable prior to bringing the NHL back and could have carried on their merry way with just having the AHL Manitoba Moose in town and hosting concerts in the MTS Centre. Not only have they brought back the Jets but we also have the Moose ---- the best of both worlds! Let's not go back to being 'Negativipeg' but instead continue to believe in our city and support the teams that call this city 'home'.

:jets
 

buggs

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And do you not believe at some point a team with a young core made up of Scheifele, Laine, Ehlers, Trouba and Morrissey isn't going to have some success? So the dream gets knocked back a year or 2 because of substandard coaching, that is worth losing an NHL franchise over? Every coach eventually gets fired and in a few years when this team is contending in another city we can all say yeah but they didn't win in year 7 when I really thought they would.
A little hyperbole there, no? We're now in danger of losing the team because fans including some season seat holders are frustratedly? And Chipman and co. Are going to take their ball and go home to Quebec?

My point is that there has been ample time to put together a solid team and really Chevy has done that in very solid fashion. What I question is whether management is behaving truly professionally in terms of how they manage their coaching. Sure eventually they'll figure it out. But what is the line that can be drawn in the sand where we no longer blindly fling cash at them out of that fear of losing the team. Never have liked emotional blackmail as a means of threatening someone into doing something and that's exactly what holding the potential loss of the jets over our head is.

We aren't that different in our views, I've just reached a point of impatience with the process faster than you. I've got guys threatening to leave my group already so while I may be comfortable with my current price point it seems to keep getting more expensive with each passing year. Lost one already and though everyone was clamouring for more seats Nobody seemed to want to step up and take more games. Go figure. I just believe my group is a microcosm of non corporate jets season ticket groups. I'm not convinced TNSE does an effective job of accounting for that. None of my group owns a cabin at Lake of the Woods but I'd bet we're representative of 50%+ so season ticket holders. Maybe not the ones that count though because we're p3 or higher.
 

Eyeseeing

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It sounds like there are a few people turning their back on Mark Chipman now. The old Winnipeg mentality is starting to creep back into town questioning the affordability of going to Jets games and voicing displeasure with the team making money. Perhaps all the people in Toronto and elsewhere were right to doubt that the NHL belongs here. Fans in Edmonton supported their team during 10 straight years of missing the playoffs and people here are ready to abandon ship 2 games into our 7th season? At one time there were so many begging the NHL to come back here and give us another chance. Are we truly a city of fairweather fans that will only support our teams if they're winning? Sure, things are turning out well for True North right now with the value of the franchise increasing but that should be considered a good thing. We want our team to be on solid financial footing. To think that Chipman doesn't care if we're competitive makes no sense. If that were the case the Jets would have the lowest payroll in the league to match the size of our market relative to all others. He is no Harold Ballard trying to screw over the fans in order to make money. True North was profitable prior to bringing the NHL back and could have carried on their merry way with just having the AHL Manitoba Moose in town and hosting concerts in the MTS Centre. Not only have they brought back the Jets but we also have the Moose ---- the best of both worlds! Let's not go back to being 'Negativipeg' but instead continue to believe in our city and support the teams that call this city 'home'.

:jets
Oh pullleeezzz
I am all for Chipman making money.
Like any business you have to provide a good product or people vote with their feet.
It’s not that Winnipeg is any more negative than anywhere else but it’s sure smaller than most markets so you have to be more sensitive to the product.
 

Lars65

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It's not about blind approval. It's about letting things that are out of your control ruin your overall enjoyment of the sport.

Like the moves or hate the moves, the minute they're Jets, they're my boys. I pull for them until they are somebody else's problem. If the only reason you pull for a team is the prospect of success, you're just a bandwagonner IMO.

Unfortunately, due to financial realities I an only attend a couple/few games a year. I blame teams like the Leafs and Rangers for that, not Chipman. Their buy-a-championship ways back in the day are why prices are so ridiculously high.

So like it or lump it, if you are fortunate enough, (or hard working enough, no disparagement intended) to afford season tickets in this new reality, it sadly falls on you to keep the team here. Chipman will not lose his shirt over it, and why should he?

Also, take you favourite GM. Add you favourite coach. If you think adding those two people, whomever they are, is a guarantee of success, you obviously don't watch a lot of sports. There are no guarantees.
 
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