Give them a chance

[Boxscore]

There'd be a lot more good will and patience around this group and some specific players if they didn't comport themselves the way they did during contract negotiations.

You get it, Stephen.

Tavares set the bar.

Nylander held out, the whole team paid the price, and it was pretty much a wasted year.

Marner went down the same path as Nylander but the Leafs didn't want to call his bluff and caved.

Matthews--they knew this kid wasn't going to leave a penny on the table after seeing what the team gave Tavares--so they handed him a blank check and said, "write in what you want."

NONE of these players took legit less to help the organization. None of them sacrificed a little coin so the team could spend on quality depth. Instead, they all looked arrogant, selfish and greedy handling their business. Does the media's obsession with this fuel the fire? Of course. But the players did nothing to help.

The long, drawn out "Tavares Sweepstakes" to the "Nylander holout" to the "Pending Marner Impasse" --the only one that was done quick and easy was Matthews--because they gave him the farm.

How come Pittsburgh never had these issues? Or the Caps? or the Bruins? Or even Edmonton with McDavid and Draisaitl? Even the Avs were able to keep their stars and add. Heck, look at Tampa--ALL of their stars took less to stay together (Stamkos, Hedman, Point, Kucherov, etc.)

The Leafs were the only club that saw the ugly business end become a narrative in their story. And, yes, it has a trickle down effect.

"Kids--now go out and earn all that money you demanded. Win a Cup, no excuses." It's human nature to react that way.

 

[The Iceman]

While on the topics of giving a chance
Give Agostino a chance
Give Korshkov a chance
I say even give Petan another chance

 

[stuart5035]

Ok, so let's all hold hands and sing Kumbaya too...., give me a break.

What is in you that you would make such a snide, sarcastic and dismissive comment to a 60 year Leaf fan who tried to express his never ending optimism for the team he has adored from boyhood onward?

 

[stuart5035]

I'm with ya buddy. I've been watching the team for years, decades even, and I can say that this is the best leaf team I have ever seen. We are blessed to have such young talent, and Mr. Matthews who will probably go down as the greatest leaf ever. It's just a matter of time before they bring a cup to Toronto.

Stay patient and enjoy the ride.

Thanks for the encouragement. Nice to not get pounced on.

I wrote this before the Anaheim loss. Now, with a little more reflection on the disaster that the California trip has been (and watching a few other “snoozefest” low scoring games like the Florida-Montreal game last night), I wonder if:

our issue is not with the players, they want to win and are trying as best they can. The real issue is that the opposition has adjusted (they are all playing the trap against us, no neutral zone space, and all collapsing around their net). One of the TSN crew made this assertion.

Combine that adjustment with three superlative performances by the opponents goaltenders, and the results were to be expected.

The return of Rielly and Ceci will help, but we need more imo-we need to adjust now, whether it’s putting Marner and Hyman back with Tavares, putting Clifford and Spezza with a Matthews, giving Nylander the third line centre etc. It can’t be status quo.

Last but certainly least, we really miss Kadri, we lost a lot of our heart there.

 

[Papa Cherry]

Thanks for the encouragement. Nice to not get pounced on.

I wrote this before the Anaheim loss. Now, with a little more reflection on the disaster that the California trip has been (and watching a few other “snoozefest” low scoring games like the Florida-Montreal game last night), I wonder if:

our issue is not with the players, they want to win and are trying as best they can. The real issue is that the opposition has adjusted (they are all playing the trap against us, no neutral zone space, and all collapsing around their net). One of the TSN crew made this assertion.

Combine that adjustment with three superlative performances by the opponents goaltenders, and the results were to be expected.

The return of Rielly and Ceci will help, but we need more imo-we need to adjust now, whether it’s putting Marner and Hyman back with Tavares, putting Clifford and Spezza with a Matthews, giving Nylander the third line centre etc. It can’t be status quo.

Last but certainly least, we really miss Kadri, we lost a lot of our heart there.

Hey man, even Sidney Crosby and Malkin get shutout by bad defenses (ie the leafs).

They certainly didn't play their best hockey during this road trip, however there were a ton of scoring chances that we didn't convert. The fact that we still got chances despite neutral zone clogging is still promising.

One thing that's been disappointing lately is a lack of offense from our defenseman. Barrie can be forgiven for his defensive gaffes if he would just bury one here and there. Reilly and Muzzin coming back would help with that too.

Agree 100% about Kadri. Not enough big hits and intensity at the right time to turn the momentum of the game. Clifford has shown he can provide that but I don't know if it's enough to fill that void.

 

[34]

They are running out of runway. They almost have to run the table to have a chance at making the playoffs here.

 

[Pookie]

Thanks for the encouragement. Nice to not get pounced on.

I wrote this before the Anaheim loss. Now, with a little more reflection on the disaster that the California trip has been (and watching a few other “snoozefest” low scoring games like the Florida-Montreal game last night), I wonder if:

our issue is not with the players, they want to win and are trying as best they can. The real issue is that the opposition has adjusted (they are all playing the trap against us, no neutral zone space, and all collapsing around their net). One of the TSN crew made this assertion.

Combine that adjustment with three superlative performances by the opponents goaltenders, and the results were to be expected.

The return of Rielly and Ceci will help, but we need more imo-we need to adjust now, whether it’s putting Marner and Hyman back with Tavares, putting Clifford and Spezza with a Matthews, giving Nylander the third line centre etc. It can’t be status quo.

Last but certainly least, we really miss Kadri, we lost a lot of our heart there.

You may be completely right in that they want to win but cannot find a way through a Trap.

Which would ultimately mean that Dubas’ plan to be faster, possess the puck, be relentless forechecking in all zones and more skilled, will be effectively neutralized by a system from decades ago.

It it what it is.

We may be coming to the realization that this plan, this Moneypuck, idea sounded interesting but really doesn’t meet the reality of the game.

I like your optimism.

End of the day we have an inconsistent team that seems to have a serious flaw when it comes to being shut down by teams with more desire and simple tactics.

I’ve got to hope they can adjust to the tactics. As for desire, that’s not up to us.

 

[Jeypic]

They are running out of runway. They almost have to run the table to have a chance at making the playoffs here.

We’re currently in a playoff spot..

I’m with the op. I like this team we have. I like our management and coach too. It’s been a rough year for injuries. Probably rougher then any other team in the league.

 

[Boxscore]

We’re currently in a playoff spot..
I’m with the op. I like this team we have.

There is a lot to like, no doubt. Some key pieces that any team in the NHL would be envious of. I'm not sure the "mix" is right though--in terms of 40 mil locked up into 4 finesse forwards--but, generally speaking, the Leafs are blessed with elite talent and are working from a position of strength, regardless of what happens this season.

I like our management and coach too.

I'm on the fence here. The jury is clearly still out IMO--especially in terms of management--as Dubas has made some decisions that scare me in terms of tunnel vision and paper champions. Honestly, I don't know enough about Keefe--in terms of how he handles the players in person--to have a strong opinion either way.

It’s been a rough year for injuries. Probably rougher then any other team in the league.

All teams have injuries. The Rielly injury was horrific--he is the D anchor without question--and one of the 3 most important players in the entire organization, if you ask me. Muzzin was rough too--but I can't blame the team's struggles on that--as they were struggling before that injury.

Other teams have it bad too--the Ducks were down their entire Top-4 D and the Canes were as well, losing Hamilton and them early on. The Rangers lost Shesterkin right when they were going on an "unbeatable run" and teams like the Flyers have been without Patrick and Gostisbehere all year... also lost Konecny and Hart for stretches. The Avs lost Rantanen, their starting goalie, and Makar TWICE to injury. The Canucks lost Boeser and Markstrom (who is a Vezina finalist). Many teams were hurt by injuries so it's kind of hard to use this as a crutch, as much as Rielly hurt the team bad--no question about that.

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

Teams are going to go through up and downs.

All told we are still in a learning process as a team.

I expected a drop off this year.

In 2 years what we are going through right now is going to pay off.

I've been a fan of the team for decades and have learnt to not panic.

I understand it's a process and we are finally doing things the right way rather then give in to those fans that like band-aid solutions and expect everything to always be sunshine and roses.

1967. last series win 2004.

 

[34]

We’re currently in a playoff spot..

I’m with the op. I like this team we have. I like our management and coach too. It’s been a rough year for injuries. Probably rougher then any other team in the league.

Pittsburgh?

 

[Old and Tired]

You have to expect an inconsistent team until they get all the peices and there are still many pieces missing. If things are bad 1 year from now, then giving this team a chance is over.

And how many years does it take to get the right pieces?
All together now, at least at least 53? Lol

 

[hoglund]

And how many years does it take to get the right pieces?
All together now, at least at least 53? Lol

I hope not, in Mathews, Marner, Taveres and Nylander will long be retired by then. I'd give it another 2 or 3 years and 1 of the 4 players that I mentioned will need to be used to get the pieces needed to win the cup.

 

[Blowfish]

I still don't understand the lack of support for Kadri.

He cost us last year? You still believe that? By being one of the only ones with enough balls to try to do something about the embarrassing beat down the NHL was allowing the leafs to take from the bruins for the second straight year?

Just saying, someone on Boston does what Kadri did and it wouldn't even be talked about. Look at Charas $5,000 cross check this year. That thing looked vicious compared to Kadris IMO. You kick Kadri out of a heated playoff series for the rest of the series, but that vicious cross check from Chara in the regular season only = a $5,000 fine?

So what did we do with one of our only players that showed some push back? We moved him out of town for yet another 2 more completely soft boys! Can any of you actually say that you thought Kerfoot and Barrie were at all what this soft team needed more of? What was Dubas thinking?

Now you wonder why this team continues to trend in this downward direction?

But some of you say, what about his deal for Clifford? I'd honestly say it's another knee jerk reaction by dubas. I thought Moore was also one of the few that showed some balls last year in the playoffs, so it's unfortunate that he's the one we have to move for a guy like Clifford.

Dubas is getting to the point where you all need to start accepting that he may not have a clue what he's doing. I'm personally starting to question what Shanahans relationship with dubas actually is.

Anyways, as a positive I like Matthews game lately. Looks like he's got some fire in him after all.

Moore 3 goals 2 assists so far...

 

[Pookie]

I hope not, in Mathews, Marner, Taveres and Nylander will long be retired by then. I'd give it another 2 or 3 years and 1 of the 4 players that I mentioned will need to be used to get the pieces needed to win the cup.

Are we even sure those are the right guys?

Point production is absolutely there. Capability to lead? Start the games on time? Perseverance?

Could be we have a Boston-Kessel thing going on.

 

[hoglund]

Are we even sure those are the right guys?

Point production is absolutely there. Capability to lead? Start the games on time? Perseverance?

Could be we have a Boston-Kessel thing going on.

Those are the right guys, but 1 or 2 of them need to be traded to get some missing pieces to be a true contender for the cup. It seemed like many thought the Leafs were there at the beginning of the season, but they are still not quite there.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

How come Pittsburgh never had these issues? Or the Caps? or the Bruins? Or even Edmonton with McDavid and Draisaitl? Even the Avs were able to keep their stars and add. Heck, look at Tampa--ALL of their stars took less to stay together (Stamkos, Hedman, Point, Kucherov, etc.)

"Kids--now go out and earn all that money you demanded. Win a Cup, no excuses." It's human nature to react that way.

Well, the truth is, all (or at least most) of these teams did have these issues. Multiple teams had RFA's hold out on them longer than Marner held out on us, regardless of whether they were waiting for Marner to set the market or not. A lot of these teams overpay their RFA's, or bridge them and end up paying big money later (assuming they are still worth it), in hopes that they end up exploding and exceeding their deals. They tell them to go out and earn their money. So they all have those expectations placed on them, and they often meet or exceed those expectations. Our guys had greater expectations, and earned more money initially, because they were better RFA's than most of their counterparts and had already proven to be top tier players with more room to explode further.

What the Leafs are mostly waiting for is for Matthews and Marner to reach their next gears, but anyone kidding is kidding themselves if they do not think Matthews and Marner are getting paid right now for what they've done, and are expected to exceed in the future.

Another thing to keep in mind, chasing money now does not mean they will necessarily do it later. If Marner/Matthews really like our team/city and want to help us win, they could take discounts given how much money they made initially. A lot of RFA's do that if they are paid well the first time, just like the opposite often happens if they take a team-friendly deal the first time.

 

[Jeypic]

There is a lot to like, no doubt. Some key pieces that any team in the NHL would be envious of. I'm not sure the "mix" is right though--in terms of 40 mil locked up into 4 finesse forwards--but, generally speaking, the Leafs are blessed with elite talent and are working from a position of strength, regardless of what happens this season.



I'm on the fence here. The jury is clearly still out IMO--especially in terms of management--as Dubas has made some decisions that scare me in terms of tunnel vision and paper champions. Honestly, I don't know enough about Keefe--in terms of how he handles the players in person--to have a strong opinion either way.



All teams have injuries. The Rielly injury was horrific--he is the D anchor without question--and one of the 3 most important players in the entire organization, if you ask me. Muzzin was rough too--but I can't blame the team's struggles on that--as they were struggling before that injury.

Other teams have it bad too--the Ducks were down their entire Top-4 D and the Canes were as well, losing Hamilton and them early on. The Rangers lost Shesterkin right when they were going on an "unbeatable run" and teams like the Flyers have been without Patrick and Gostisbehere all year... also lost Konecny and Hart for stretches. The Avs lost Rantanen, their starting goalie, and Makar TWICE to injury. The Canucks lost Boeser and Markstrom (who is a Vezina finalist). Many teams were hurt by injuries so it's kind of hard to use this as a crutch, as much as Rielly hurt the team bad--no question about that.

we also had marner Tavares mikheyev and johnsson out

 

[Koolboss]

Been there done that
No more chances

 

[Old and Tired]

What is in you that you would make such a snide, sarcastic and dismissive comment to a 60 year Leaf fan who tried to express his never ending optimism for the team he has adored from boyhood onward?

How about I am a 65 year old leaf fan who is sick to death of excuses!

 

[Legion34]

1967. last series win 2004.

what does this have to do with anything?

 

[Old and Tired]

I hope not, in Mathews, Marner, Taveres and Nylander will long be retired by then. I'd give it another 2 or 3 years and 1 of the 4 players that I mentioned will need to be used to get the pieces needed to win the cup.

You missed the irony of the question. In 53 years since 1967 they have not achieved it. That was the point.

 

[Cobra777]

You have to expect an inconsistent team until they get all the peices and there are still many pieces missing. If things are bad 1 year from now, then giving this team a chance is over.

Yes your right there are many pieces missing but 1stly, having all that dough tied up in 4 players makes getting the missing pieces incredibly hard

2. Dubas has to change his vision from 1 dimensional players to add players that can play the game and also add high intensity and work ethics to complete a nice mix in order to facilitate a team that can adapt to any style of play.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

You may be completely right in that they want to win but cannot find a way through a Trap.

Which would ultimately mean that Dubas’ plan to be faster, possess the puck, be relentless forechecking in all zones and more skilled, will be effectively neutralized by a system from decades ago.

It it what it is.

We may be coming to the realization that this plan, this Moneypuck, idea sounded interesting but really doesn’t meet the reality of the game.

I like your optimism.

End of the day we have an inconsistent team that seems to have a serious flaw when it comes to being shut down by teams with more desire and simple tactics.

I’ve got to hope they can adjust to the tactics. As for desire, that’s not up to us.

When was the last time we seen a stretch pass. They and many other tweeks can be woven in to the system. Just needs players that play like winners to crack defenses. Everything can work if it is s done quickly and the players are smart enough or heading enough to see the play quicker.

The puck movement is going backwards. I’ll just leave it at that. They keep doing it we will miss the playoffs