Post-Game Talk: Gilligan's Isles @ Capitals - 1:08pm EST 2019

[HecticGlow]

We won the cup with contributions from third and fourth line players - Eller, Stephenson, Burakovsky, DSP, Connolly, even Beagle and Chiasson on occasion. Unless we can get consistent secondary scoring out of a bottom six guy not named Eller against other teams’ third pairings and fourth lines, we don’t stand a chance in the playoffs. How well Hagelin can shut other guys down will be an irrelevance - especially if we’re fielding defensemen who can’t be trusted to do that too.

 

[um]

Others have, which who I was referring to. The Caps have primary offensive problems right now. Ov is off his pace. Vrana is invisible. All those other guys, I get. Hagelin is different.

He is different, because he's a forth liner who we can't rely on for offense. And that's okay, 4th line doesn't mean garbage leftovers.

 

[Melkor]

This idea that a $3M penalty killing forward earns himself the right to be an absolute black hole on the offense by being a good pker is ridiculous. Can you guys come up with something more legit in his defense? This is just laughable.

 

[AtNightWeFly]

I don't have a problem with Hagelin but I do have a problem with both Hagelin and Panik on the same line doing the same non-factor things on the offensive side. Panik may be the most invisible player on the Caps in a long while. Whole games go by before the announcers even say his name. Just what is he doing out there?

 

[philip]

I don't have a problem with Hagelin but I do have a problem with both Hagelin and Panik on the same line doing the same non-factor things on the offensive side. Panik may be the most invisible player on the Caps in a long while. Whole games go by before the announcers even say his name. Just what is he doing out there?

Getting paid nearly $3m too... his play doesn't justify $1m since he joined Caps

 

[philip]

Hagelin and Panik need to go. We're very close to the Cap and don't need players who are not remotely earning their money. $6m in budget could be much better spent at this point. Look at Leipsic and Hathaway on a combined $2.2m

 

[tenken00]

Crummy loss to close out the year to a club that I honestly find as entertaining as watching paint dry.

Fortunately your club has almost 1/2 the season left to continue tinkering with the lineup and cycling in the AHL’rs as injuries/suspensions/rest days arise.

Wonderful problems to have (as I’ve mentioned before).

As 2019 comes to a close I want to thank you for being so welcoming to me and I am very grateful for finding so many new friends here on this Board.

All the best in 2020!

Happy new years to you too. Will be cheering for the Canucks to get in to the dance too

 

[tenken00]

We won the cup with contributions from third and fourth line players - Eller, Stephenson, Burakovsky, DSP, Connolly, even Beagle and Chiasson on occasion. Unless we can get consistent secondary scoring out of a bottom six guy not named Eller against other teams’ third pairings and fourth lines, we don’t stand a chance in the playoffs. How well Hagelin can shut other guys down will be an irrelevance - especially if we’re fielding defensemen who can’t be trusted to do that too.

I agree, but let's not forget that those 3rd and 4th line contributions in the Cup run in 2018 were mostly unexpected in the playoffs. During the regular season, those guys didnt really score much either.

We pine for Connolly's offense, and he did have a career last year, but during the Stanley Cup season he had only 15 goals and 12 assists. Burakovsky that regular season was maddeningly inconsistent like the rest of his time in Washington. DSP had as many goals in the playoffs as he did in the regular season.

It just all sort of clicked in the playoffs.

 

[HecticGlow]

Panik might pull things around - Eller was pretty crappy in his debut season with the Caps, being demoted to 4C behind Beagle for a stretch while he found his feet - but eventually got settled and learned the system and has been great ever since. Panik has been a productive player for his previous teams in recent years, so there’s hope he rediscovers the offensive side of his two-way game as he settles in.

My bigger issue is that Hagelin is a known quantity - he’s not suddenly going to become a 10-goal scorer overnight. Even worse than having a player like that on your third line is having him as your 1LW or 2LW in the event a top-six forward goes down.

 

[HecticGlow]

I agree, but let's not forget that those 3rd and 4th line contributions in the Cup run in 2018 were mostly unexpected in the playoffs. During the regular season, those guys didnt really score much either.

We pine for Connolly's offense, and he did have a career last year, but during the Stanley Cup season he had only 15 goals and 12 assists. Burakovsky that regular season was maddeningly inconsistent like the rest of his time in Washington. DSP had as many goals in the playoffs as he did in the regular season.

It just all sort of clicked in the playoffs.

You make some very valid points there about the lack of RS consistency and surprise performance from guys in the playoffs. But when you look at Burakovsky and Connolly, as streaky as they could be, they were both finishers. If just one of Vrana, Oshie or Wilson gets hurt or even just goes cold, you’re seriously lacking depth that can put the puck in the back of the net consistently. When Burk and Conn were on, they were hitting the net. When Hagelin is on, he’s lost any finish at all, and we’ve yet to see if Panik can find an on switch while wearing Caps colours.

In 2018 we had the depth to withstand injuries (just) to Backstrom and Burakovsky. Last year when we lost Osh and Kempny, we had no real answer. Let’s hope GMBM comes up with some solutions in the next month or two so we don’t risk a repeated first round exit.

 

[AussieCapsFan]

Hagelin and Panik need to go. We're very close to the Cap and don't need players who are not remotely earning their money. $6m in budget could be much better spent at this point. Look at Leipsic and Hathaway on a combined $2.2m

Yes let's look at those 4 players offensively. There were 13 games in December:

Hathaway - 4 goals and an assist
Panik - 2 goals and 2 assists
Hagelin - 1 goal and 3 assists
Leipsic - 1 assist

Hathaway is probably the only one we are getting our money's worth for in an offensive sense.....

 

[txpd]

Yes let's look at those 4 players offensively. There were 13 games in December:

Hathaway - 4 goals and an assist
Panik - 2 goals and 2 assists
Hagelin - 1 goal and 3 assists
Leipsic - 1 assist

Hathaway is probably the only one we are getting our money's worth for in an offensive sense.....

more to hockey than points

 

[francaisvolantsparis]

Regular season points mean little for bottom six forwards.

 

[AussieCapsFan]

more to hockey than points

I was attempting to point out to Philip that NONE of the 4 players he mentioned are providing much in the way of offence. You already know I hold Hagelin in high regard. I also like Hathaway. At this time I'm not sold on Panik but there aren't other options so just have to see if he rediscovers his offence at some point

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

more to hockey than points

channel that inner Maaco.....

 

[sycamore]

I almost welcome losses at this point. Team was peaking to early, hopefully a nice lull in January before we fire up the engines in
February or March for the long post season run.

 

[Kuznetsnow]

more to hockey than points

More to hockey than killing penalties

 

[itsjustsurvival]

More to hockey than killing penalties

True, but its a little more important when your team takes the most minor penalties in the league.

 

[Kuznetsnow]

True, but its a little more important when your team takes the most minor penalties in the league.

That's not a recipe for playoff success with any PK.

They added Leipsic and Hathaway, if they kept Stephenson instead of Hagelin any PK ability difference would be more than offset by Stephenson's cheaper cap hit + offensive ability.

 

[RandyHolt]

I am still not a fan of the Hagelin signing.

 

[Bananas]

Didn’t like the Hagelin signing at the time and like it even less now.

However, I will say that he seems like a locker room guy and seems to bring some fun/looseness. The locker composition is hugely important if we have designs on going on another run.

A slightly better player who’s a bit of a stiff could even make the team worse. Chemistry is a funny thing that way.

 

[HecticGlow]

Regular season points mean little for bottom six forwards.

Then let's look at Carl Hagelin's points during playoff games the last 3 seasons (16-17, 17-18 and 18-19):

GP	31
Goals	4
Assists	2
Total points	6
+-	-2

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

This 6 points in 31 games (which includes just 2 points during the 15 games he played in the second Pittsburg Cup win in 16-17, and his 1 point in 7 games with the Caps last year which included time playing on a second line with Kuznetsov) guy isn't the same player anymore who put up 16 points in 24 games during 2015-2016, and GMBM has made it clear recently that despite the role of that third line now being given a PK, defensive focus, he expects it to still produce at 5-on-5. Eller downplayed one journalist's view that the line should be judged on its success as a checking line, noting how important secondary scoring is in the playoffs.

He's terrific on the PK. Not $2.75 million worth of terrific. He's a great possession player, but possessing the puck for long periods without being able to get on the scoreboard won't help if another line's just been scored on.

We need secondary scoring, whoever it's from. It's just hard to see who can be that guy right now.

 

[Corby78]

That's not a recipe for playoff success with any PK.

They added Leipsic and Hathaway, if they kept Stephenson instead of Hagelin any PK ability difference would be more than offset by Stephenson's cheaper cap hit + offensive ability.

stephenson has offensive ability?

 

[francaisvolantsparis]

Goals scored against. Smart stat. As smart as points scored by a player. You are worried by Paniks low scoring, be smart, worry about Ovechkins goals against at the same time.

Player	TOI	GA
Richard Panik	354	9
Nic Dowd	293	11
Garnet Hathaway	432	12
Brendan Leipsic	382	14
Carl Hagelin	420	17
Jakub Vrana	601	26
Michal Kempny	579	26
Nick Jensen	737	32
Jonas Siegenthaler	684	33
Evgeny Kuznetsov	695	36
Nicklas Backstrom	643	37
Lars Eller	711	37
T.J. Oshie	765	39
Radko Gudas	702	39
Dmitry Orlov	904	44
Tom Wilson	726	44
John Carlson	1023	47
Alex Ovechkin	849	50

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

This idea that a $3M penalty killing forward earns himself the right to be an absolute black hole on the offense by being a good pker is ridiculous. Can you guys come up with something more legit in his defense? This is just laughable.

Hagelin sucks. *Click* Hagelin sucks. *Click* Hagelin sucks. *Click* Hagelin sucks. *Click* ..................